Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

GrendelQ said:
Thanks. The point is that by making our choice, we're not invalidating anything that you or anyone else has experienced. Insistence that "it worked for me" therefore it is the only approach for everyone, no matter how much you stamp your feet, isn't a compelling argument. Telling me you 'don't give a shit how it's done with your daughter', that decisions about my daughter's learning are really all about you will not convince me that you are thinking about anyone but yourself.
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Think about myself?

All I want is that no deaf child be restricted to an oral-only or ASL-only environment. That they get all the tools.

Iam asking..when I express my strong beliefs in the BiBi method, why is at taken as a personal attack on u and the other parents? Sorry, I don't believe in the oral-only approach due to the risks involved. I don't like the idea of mainstreaming full time.

I support a deaf program at public schools with a qualified TOD or deaf schools that offer BiBi with spoken English and ASL classes.

I hate to see deaf children end up with language delays, deficits, and socio-emotional issues.

That's my belief but I don't understand how it makes me anti-CI or as attacking u all.

Yes, I get blunt with some of the parents when they call me names. Same with you when others call u names. Maybe it is time to cease fire?
 
shel90 said:
Think about myself?

All I want is that no deaf child be restricted to an oral-only or ASL-only environment. That they get all the tools.

Iam asking..when I express my strong beliefs in the BiBi method, why is at taken as a personal attack on u and the other parents? Sorry, I don't believe in the oral-only approach due to the risks involved. I don't like the idea of mainstreaming full time.

I support a deaf program at public schools with a qualified TOD or deaf schools that offer BiBi with spoken English and ASL classes.

I hate to see deaf children end up with language delays, deficits, and socio-emotional issues.

That's my belief but I don't understand how it makes me anti-CI or as attacking u all.

Yes, I get blunt with some of the parents when they call me names. Same with you when others call u names. Maybe it is time to cease fire?
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We don't see your beliefs as attacks. We see attacks as attacks. We see people who say that our children will be miserable, maladjusted and grow up to hate us, as attacking us.

Also, who called you names?
 
shel90 said:
Think about myself?

...
That's my belief but I don't understand how it makes me anti-CI or as attacking u all.

Yes, I get blunt with some of the parents when they call me names. Same with you when others call u names. Maybe it is time to cease fire?
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Shel, who is calling you names? My message was in direct response to AlleyCat, who made the statements I quoted, and is -- apparently, based on her several angry messages -- feeling angry and hurt by me because I haven't validated her positive experience developing great oral skills. I've explained repeatedly that I acknowledge that her approach was wonderful, it just isn't the right approach for my child, for my family. Just because we don't do AVT or oral-aural methodology, doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just not right for us at this time. Not because my child is "better" or my way is "better," but because my child is different, my circumstances are different, it's a different time, we have different resources at hand, my child's access to sound and sign is different. And everything I do is customized to the very specific needs and abilities of my child.
 
I am not angry or hurt at any one specific person. I am speaking in how, generally, we have been trying to help the (hearing) parents by sharing our experiences. We keep getting responses that make us feel like you don't care what our experiences are or were. We certainly don't need validation, just an understanding.
 
GrendelQ said:
Shel, who is calling you names? My message was in direct response to AlleyCat, who made the statements I quoted, and is -- apparently, based on her several angry messages -- feeling angry and hurt by me because I haven't validated her positive experience developing great oral skills. I've explained repeatedly that I acknowledge that her approach was wonderful, it just isn't the right approach for my child, for my family. Just because we don't do AVT or oral-aural methodology, doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just not right for us at this time. Not because my child is "better" or my way is "better," but because my child is different, my circumstances are different, it's a different time, we have different resources at hand, my child's access to sound and sign is different. And everything I do is customized to the very specific needs and abilities of my child.
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In the past in this thread (not sure as I am using my pager) and in other threads, I have been constantlly being called anti-CI and other names. I have always applaud u and the other parents for your kids but whenever I expressed my beliefs about the approaches, I get accused of attacking you all. Maybe in some situations, I could have worded better.

However, the pint is we get attacked just like you all complained of being attacked. I guess we are used to being attacked for our views because general society doesn't understand Deaf culture and our values. Maybe it is new to you as you and the others probably grew up with the same views as the majority?

Kokonut, my apologies...I was thinking it was you that belittled others for their differences but I looked back, it was someone else. My mistake.
 
shel90 said:
or as another ADer said a few years ago..


"No, my child will NOT be like you!!! " (her implanted child will not like be us, unimplanted people)

It sounds eerily familiar now.
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Yeah, I seen and heard it so often when I was growing up.

Part about notetaker etc:

At my uni, lecturers use powerpoint slides, some of them use tech pen to write on touchscreen powerpoint, after lecture it gets uploaded on student uni website to for student to download so there no need for notetake and save all money for BSL interpreters cos they are expensive.
 
Speedy Hawk said:
Yeah, I seen and heard it so often when I was growing up.

Part about notetaker etc:

At my uni, lecturers use powerpoint slides, some of them use tech pen to write on touchscreen powerpoint, after lecture it gets uploaded on student uni website to for student to download so there no need for notetake and save all money for BSL interpreters cos they are expensive.
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Wow..that's cool. Is it helpful?
 
shel90 said:
or as another ADer said a few years ago..


"No, my child will NOT be like you!!! " (her implanted child will not like be us, unimplanted people)

It sounds eerily familiar now.
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Shel, you expend so much energy doing good: warning people away from what you experienced, describing the impact on you and on how you still feel today.

Isn't that quote you provide exactly what you want: for hearing families like yours to take a very different route with their deaf children? Do you, like AlleyCat, also want today's parents to take the same route you walked instead of emphatically choosing a different approach?

Today's child with a CI or HA in a bi-bi school is experiencing something vastly different from what you experienced as a mainstreamed child without adequate amplification and accommodation (I base that only on what you have described, not my own assessment, btw.).


[Koko! wow - at first glance, I'll bet that ruffled a whole lot of feathers .. have to read further]
 
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shel90 said:
Wow..that's cool. Is it helpful?
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Yep, much more helpful than notetaker cos better info on slides with some lecturer comments and easy to read than notetaker. Also slides have pictures on them too and diagrams, notetaker don't have them. For me anyway and it free too.
 
Same can be said that Latin is for everybody but not everybody want Latin.
 
GrendelQ said:
Shel, you expend so much energy doing good: warning people away from what you experienced, describing the impact on you and on how you still feel today.

Isn't that quote you provide exactly what you want: for hearing families like yours to take a very different route with their deaf children? Do you, like AlleyCat, also want today's parents to take the same route you walked instead of emphatically choosing a different approach?

Today's child with a CI or HA in a bi-bi school is experiencing something vastly different from what you experienced as a mainstreamed child without adequate amplification and accommodation (I base that only on what you have described, not my own assessment, btw.).


[Koko! wow - at first glance, I'll bet that ruffled a whole lot of feathers .. have to read further]
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that person didnt want her child to be "restricted" in the Deaf community only and didnt want her child to use ASL so when she said that, it was a big insult. Which is why we probably have hardened towards any hint of audism. Any...
 
People say that ASL restricts the deaf to only the deaf world. Nothing could be further from the truth. By using ASL, the deaf person has ACCESS to the deaf world AND the hearing world. Because there's a language base to learn another language (spoken English) and there's the opportunity to use an interpreter to bridge the gaps.

By learning only spoken English, however, it does restrict the deaf person to only the hearing world. By that, there's not always a language base, thus language delays can result. And the opportunity to use an interpreter lessens.

In many cases, as it was for me, by using only Spoken English, my world was restricted. When I learned ASL, my world opened in both hearing and deaf worlds.

Remember this old thread of mine? http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/55106-i-refuse.html
 
deafbajagal said:
People say that ASL restricts the deaf to only the deaf world. Nothing could be further from the truth. By using ASL, the deaf person has ACCESS to the deaf world AND the hearing world. Because there's a language base to learn another language (spoken English) and there's the opportunity to use an interpreter to bridge the gaps.

By learning only spoken English, however, it does restrict the deaf person to only the hearing world. By that, there's not always a language base, thus language delays can result. And the opportunity to use an interpreter lessens.

In many cases, as it was for me, by using only Spoken English, my world was restricted. When I learned ASL, my world opened in both hearing and deaf worlds.
Remember this old thread of mine? http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/55106-i-refuse.html
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I agree but the problem is that many think that CIs are the solution to the problem.
 
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