Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

posts from hell said:
Do you remember when a person was "vacationing" things were quite calm in here and everyone actually agreed on things.................................

That in itself should say something.
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Yeah, because that is what is important, everyone patting each other on the back, saying "Oh, yes. No one else gets it. You are so right." and "+1". That's the way to change the world :roll:
 
faire_jour said:
Yeah, because that is what is important, everyone patting each other on the back, saying "Oh, yes. No one else gets it. You are so right." and "+1". That's the way to change the world :roll:
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There is a reason I put the emphasis on the term: everyone.
 
Borrowing a question from the Thread Most Recently Locked, maybe this thread should really be "Should Alldeaf be reserved to culturally Deaf people only?"

I first encountered this site when we were addressing Li's deafness, deciding what medical approach to take, if any, what educational path we wanted to pursue, how we would communicate. I lurked briefly, watching what seemed to me at the time to be a cruel and vicious attack on a parent of a deaf kid who was considering a CI, finding the same dynamic at deafread. I remember my horror at the anger, bitterness and the sheer volume of hatred being spewed and, like most hearing parents who encounter this site, didn't return again. That is, not until deafdude started posting excerpts from my family blog with his commentary. Unlike most of the hearing parents, though, I was fortunate enough to encounter the Deaf community in real life, a world apart from this place, a kind, welcoming, open-minded culture that has taken in both my deaf daughter and our family, guiding us without ridicule, accepting us without judgment, teaching without condescension.

So, rather than associating ASL with bitter, cruel people who exclude divergent opinions, I associate it with the warmth engendered by those people we've met in person. Other families aren't as lucky as we are, and for them, ASL and deaf culture + hearing families = those bitter encounters we have here, even today.

But this forum sure can effectively function as a gatehouse.
 
GrendelQ said:
Borrowing a question from the Thread Most Recently Locked, maybe this thread should really be "Should Alldeaf be reserved to culturally Deaf people only?"

I first encountered this site when we were addressing Li's deafness, deciding what medical approach to take, if any, what educational path we wanted to pursue, how we would communicate. I lurked briefly, watching what seemed to me at the time to be a cruel and vicious attack on a parent of a deaf kid who was considering a CI, finding the same dynamic at deafread. I remember my horror at the anger, bitterness and the sheer volume of hatred being spewed and, like most hearing parents who encounter this site, didn't return again. That is, not until deafdude started posting excerpts from my family blog with his commentary. Unlike most of the hearing parents, though, I was fortunate enough to encounter the Deaf community in real life, a world apart from this place, a kind, welcoming, open-minded culture that has taken in both my deaf daughter and our family, guiding us without ridicule, accepting us without judgment, teaching without condescension.

So, rather than associating ASL with bitter, cruel people who exclude divergent opinions, I associate it with the warmth engendered by those people we've met in person. Other families aren't as lucky as we are, and for them, ASL and deaf culture + hearing families = those bitter encounters we have here, even today.

But this forum sure can effectively function as a gatehouse.
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This is exactly what I experienced. Our local Deaf community is exactly the opposite of what I find online, here and on blogs.
 
GrendelQ said:
Borrowing a question from the Thread Most Recently Locked, maybe this thread should really be "Should Alldeaf be reserved to culturally Deaf people only?"

I first encountered this site when we were addressing Li's deafness, deciding what medical approach to take, if any, what educational path we wanted to pursue, how we would communicate. I lurked briefly, watching what seemed to me at the time to be a cruel and vicious attack on a parent of a deaf kid who was considering a CI, finding the same dynamic at deafread. I remember my horror at the anger, bitterness and the sheer volume of hatred being spewed and, like most hearing parents who encounter this site, didn't return again. That is, not until deafdude started posting excerpts from my family blog with his commentary. Unlike most of the hearing parents, though, I was fortunate enough to encounter the Deaf community in real life, a world apart from this place, a kind, welcoming, open-minded culture that has taken in both my deaf daughter and our family, guiding us without ridicule, accepting us without judgment, teaching without condescension.

So, rather than associating ASL with bitter, cruel people who exclude divergent opinions, I associate it with the warmth engendered by those people we've met in person. Other families aren't as lucky as we are, and for them, ASL and deaf culture + hearing families = those bitter encounters we have here, even today.

But this forum sure can effectively function as a gatehouse.
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Have you read this one before?
Kokonut Pundit: F*ck you, Deaf Community!
 
GrendelQ said:
No, we're not invalidating your experience, I'm certain it was done as you describe. But I do 'give a shit if it's done different for my daughter today,' and am making damn sure it is not what you experienced.
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I find that interesting as I speak no different than a hearing person today. So I wonder why you want to make "damn sure it's not the same" for your daughter. I guess you must not want her to speak as if she is hearing, which would be odd given everything else you've said.

(And, oh, I offered before to let you listen to how I speak. Just to give proof that I mean all that I say, and that I'm not a bunch of baloney. Guess you just weren't interested in validating that either.)
 
AlleyCat said:
I find that interesting as I speak no different than a hearing person today. So I wonder why you want to make "damn sure it's not the same" for your daughter. I guess you must not want her to speak as if she is hearing, which would be odd given everything else you've said.

(And, oh, I offered before to let you listen to how I speak. Just to give proof that I mean all that I say, and that I'm not a bunch of baloney. Guess you just weren't interested in validating that either.)
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We believe that you speak well! What we are trying to avoid is the pain and misery that it cost to get there.
 
faire_jour said:
We believe that you speak well! What we are trying to avoid is the pain and misery that it cost to get there.
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For me, it wasn't pain and misery. I've never ever said it was. I have only detailed the process that took place to make my speaking ability happen.
 
AlleyCat said:
For me, it wasn't pain and misery. I've never ever said it was. I have only detailed the process that took place to make my speaking ability happen.
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I already told them that for most us, we didn't hate speech therapy.
 
AlleyCat said:
I find that interesting as I speak no different than a hearing person today. So I wonder why you want to make "damn sure it's not the same" for your daughter. I guess you must not want her to speak as if she is hearing, which would be odd given everything else you've said.

(And, oh, I offered before to let you listen to how I speak. Just to give proof that I mean all that I say, and that I'm not a bunch of baloney. Guess you just weren't interested in validating that either.)
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You were brought up oral without CIs and learned ASL later in life, is that right, and the learning process involved in developing oral skills was difficult? (if not, please remind me) I've gotten mixed messages from you -- are you advocating your learning experience and communication approach or rejecting it? What exactly do you need from me to validate your experience? I don't need you to prove your abilities to me on Skype -- I believe you. But more important, you don't need to prove your abilities to me and you don't need me to validate your experience.

There are MANY deaf perspectives out there on which approach to take. Your experience may have been wonderful for you, and for many, but I am not going to raise my daughter oral without CIs and without ASL just to validate your experience. Our decisions are entirely unique to her abilities and her experiences and our resources.

My profoundly deaf daughter is being taught at a bi-bi learning environment (a school for the deaf), ASL was her first language, English second (introduced after she had her CIs). Our family uses both sign and spoken language, her friends are deaf and hearing. She's happy, healthy, communicates with ease across both speaking and signing modes. We are not invalidating any other approach by taking this one. We are providing my daughter with the communication and educational opportunities that suit her, just her.
 
GrendelQ said:
You were brought up oral without CIs and learned ASL later in life, is that right, and the learning process involved in developing oral skills was difficult? (if not, please remind me) I've gotten mixed messages from you -- are you advocating your learning experience and communication approach or rejecting it? What exactly do you need from me to validate your experience? I don't need you to prove your abilities to me on Skype -- I believe you. But more important, you don't need to prove your abilities to me and you don't need me to validate your experience.

There are MANY deaf perspectives out there on which approach to take. Your experience may have been wonderful for you, and for many, but I am not going to raise my daughter oral without CIs and without ASL just to validate your experience. Our decisions are entirely unique to her abilities and her experiences and our resources.

My profoundly deaf daughter is being taught at a bi-bi learning environment (a school for the deaf), ASL was her first language, English second (introduced after she had her CIs). Our family uses both sign and spoken language, her friends are deaf and hearing. She's happy, healthy, communicates with ease across both speaking and signing modes. We are not invalidating any other approach by taking this one. We are providing my daughter with the communication and educational opportunities that suit her, just her.
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She was raised bilingually. ASL was her first language, I believe.
 
shel90 said:
She was raised bilingually. ASL was her first language, I believe.
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Thanks. The point is that by making our choice, we're not invalidating anything that you or anyone else has experienced. Insistence that "it worked for me" therefore it is the only approach for everyone, no matter how much you stamp your feet, isn't a compelling argument. Telling me you 'don't give a shit how it's done with your daughter', that decisions about my daughter's learning are really all about you will not convince me that you are thinking about anyone but yourself.
 
shel90 said:
Fine, you are happy but why the belittling of other people who are different from you? :hmm:
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kokonut simply stated that he's happy and that his mother didn't resent her decision. Where's the belittling of others in that statement?
 
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