Shooting at Ft Hood; 7 dead, 20+wounded

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Frisky Feline said:
I understand. Why don't you send a message to NEWS to tell them that is 14.

I agree that they didn't count on baby which i am surprised but they only count on 13 that were presence and alive.
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That issue was raised on Foxnews last night.
 
There is no "grey area" when it comes to an innocent life taken from a womb of a mother who was intent on having her baby in this case. I call it a growing person who was murdered along with the mother by Hasan.
 
kokonut said:
There is no "grey area" when it comes to an innocent life taken from a womb of a mother who was intent on having her baby in this case. I call it a growing person who was murdered along with the mother by Hasan.
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If it's a black and white issue, then there would be no such thing as pro-life or pro-choice debate. If everything is black and white as you present things to be, then people would never argue. Even libertarians are divided on the whole issue of unborn children.
 
The unborn is undoubtedly a victim of Hasan's rampage. The unborn is undoubtedly a human, a person. To say that the unborn isn't a victim and doesn't deserved to be counted among those killed is a travesty.

Under the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, Hasan is "guilty of a separate offense" for causing "the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place."
Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 -- Laci and Conner's Law

This is a chargeable offense to Hasan according to the law. The question is, will the Obama administration prosecute?


Will the Obama administration prosecute?
 
kokonut said:
The unborn is undoubtedly a victim of Hasan's rampage. The unborn is undoubtedly a human, a person. To say that the unborn isn't a victim and doesn't deserved to be counted among those killed is a travesty.

Under the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, Hasan is "guilty of a separate offense" for causing "the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place."
Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 -- Laci and Conner's Law

This is a chargeable offense to Hasan according to the law. The question is, will the Obama administration prosecute?


Will the Obama administration prosecute?
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in case you didn't know - Obama Administration is not a prosecutor team.

This is the matter of Texan authority and/or Fort Hood.
 
Cheri said:
That's where you are wrong there, Many states have vastly differing laws concerning the killing of a fetus. Some states Supreme Court treat any fetus as a living being depends on the embryonic stage. You're the one who doesn't respect Private Francheska Velez's unborn child.
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in this case.... Texas's law does not support your stance
 
I'm not sure what the military law regarding unborn children is, but I do know that it will be the military who prosecutes Hasan. Regardless of what the law says, we can each in our own hearts know what the true death toll is. Any mother can tell you that the baby inside her is alive.
 
Eve said:
I'm not sure what the military law regarding unborn children is, but I do know that it will be the military who prosecutes Hasan. Regardless of what the law says, we can each in our own hearts know what the true death toll is. Any mother can tell you that the baby inside her is alive.
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kokonut just provided you military law regarding unborn children.
 
He posted US code. Not sure if that is military or civilian law.
 
Profiler: Fort Hood suspect a loner
Fort Hood, Texas (CNN) -- People who knew and studied Maj. Nidal Hasan say he was a loner who had no luck finding a wife, and a criminal profiler said the Fort Hood shooting suspect fits the profile of a mass murderer better than that of a terrorist.

Investigators are searching for any missed "red flags" that might have prevented last week's fatal shooting, which left 12 soldiers and one civilian dead and 40 other people wounded. However, the FBI has said its investigations indicate the "alleged gunman acted alone and was not part of a broader terrorist plot."

"A lot of people are jumping to the conclusion because this man spouted violent Islamic ideology that this is a terrorist attack," criminologist Pat Brown said.

Brown, who profiles killers, said Hasan's profile is that of a loner.

"He was simply a lone guy who had issues, problems, psychopathic behaviors that escalated to the point where he wanted to get back at society, and he took it out on his workmates like most of them do," he said.

A cleric at the Dar al-Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Virginia, where Hasan attended when he lived in the area, said Hasan seemed to become "somewhat withdrawn" after the death of his mother in 2001.

"Some individuals said that their experience with him, that he changed after his mother passed away," Imam Johari Abdul-Malik said.

Another cleric there, Shaikh Shaker Elsayed, said efforts to find a wife for Hasan were unsuccessful.

"Well, we were not successful in matching him with somebody," he said.

Hasan, a 39-year-old psychiatrist, came under investigation last year when his communications with radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki were intercepted by terrorism investigators who were monitoring al-Awlaki, a federal law enforcement official told CNN.

But an employee of the Defense Department's Criminal Investigative Services, assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force, decided to drop the investigation after reviewing the intercepted communications and Hasan's personnel files.

A senior Defense Department official said the task force's ground rules prevented that information from being transmitted outside the task force, although others disputed that.

"I find it hard to believe that they would just say, 'OK, we're not going to share any of this information with the military,' " HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks said. "I mean, that's why you have a person from the military, from different military branches, on the task force to be the liaison."

A former counterterrorism official said the information about Hasan's communications with the imam should have been shared with the military unless the FBI specifically forbade it.

Still, one source familiar with the investigation said Hasan's communications with al-Awlaki appeared innocent in nature.

Another federal source familiar with the investigation said Hasan's actions give no indication he was following the guidance in al Qaeda's terrorist handbook in the weeks before Thursday's attack.

That handbook directs jihadists to conceal their religion, mask their beliefs and blend in. Instead, Hasan frequently appeared in public in traditional Muslim clothing and prayed daily at the local mosque, making no attempt to hide his religion or conservative beliefs, the source said.

Hasan remained hospitalized Wednesday in stable condition and has not been formally charged with any of the 13 deaths in last week's shooting. His civilian attorney, retired Army Col. John Galligan, said he has spoken with his client, but that he was heavily sedated.

"I think the closest thing that indicates that there's a court-martial in the works is last night about 8 I did receive an e-mail from the prosecutor at Fort Hood indicating to me that the pass privileges and leave privileges of Maj. Hasan had been revoked," Galligan said.
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Eve said:
He posted US code. Not sure if that is military or civilian law.
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• Paragraph 44a, Article 119a, Death or Injury to an Unborn Child. The change provided guidance to further implement the offense of causing the death or injury to an unborn child, as established by the Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212).
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- page 5


44a. Article 119a.--Death or injury of an
unborn child
a. Text of statute.
(a)(1) Any person subject to this chapter who
engages in conduct that violates any of the provisions
of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby
causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined
in section 1365 of title 18) to, a child, who is in
utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty
of a separate offense under this section and shall,
u p o n c o n v i c t i o n , b e p u n i s h e d b y s u c h p u n i s h -
ment, other than death, as a court-martial may
direct, which shall be consistent with the punishments
prescribed by the President for that conduct
had that injury or death occurred to the
unborn child’s mother.
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Page 348.


http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/law/mcm.pdf

A chargeable offense and that the unborn is recognized as a human being.

Question is, will Obama make an additional charge for the murder of an unborn baby?
 
kokonut said:
- page 5

Page 348.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/law/mcm.pdf

A chargeable offense and that the unborn is recognized as a human being.

Question is, will Obama make an additional charge for the murder of an unborn baby?
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Nowhere in your link stated that it recognizes unborn child as a person. It only stated that it's a chargeable offense to kill a pregnant woman - regardless of stage of development.

again... with this pro-life agenda...
 
Jiro said:
I understand but can we please keep your pro-life agenda out of this? It has no place in here. As far as I'm concerned - until there is law saying that a fetus does count as a person... the official count is 13

Please do not inform people with intellectual dishonesty. Please state the fact as reported by news, government, and law enforcement. If you still want to say 14, then please add a disclaimer to inform us that it is not what the official count says. :ty:
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I'm for Jiro about 13 since it is official numbers.
 
It'd be 14 victims according to military "Manual for Court Marshall" counting the 14th victim as the unborn baby a chargeable offense.
 
kokonut said:
It'd be 14 victims according to military "Manual for Court Marshall" counting the 14th victim as the unborn baby a chargeable offense.
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uh no. Again - nothing in the law supported your statement. It's a seperate chargeable offense to kill a pregnant woman, nothing more.
 
Jiro said:
uh no. Again - nothing in the law supported your statement. It's a seperate chargeable offense to kill a pregnant woman, nothing more.
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Second here, nothing to mention in kokonut's post.
 
They will charge him for the mass-murder of 13 people, plus an additional charge for killing a pregnant woman who was carrying an unborn child.

Nothing more. Even a pro-lifer should be happy with that.
 
Cheri said:
That's where you are wrong there, Many states have vastly differing laws concerning the killing of a fetus. Some states Supreme Court treat any fetus as a living being depends on the embryonic stage. You're the one who doesn't respect Private Francheska Velez's unborn child.
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tell that to Supreme Court. Since she was 6-weeks pregnant, the law doesn't recognize her fetus as a person since it's not a viable human being yet. it can die due to miscarriage.

while the law doesn't recognize him as a person, you should be glad that there is a chargeable offense for double homicide on pregnant woman.
 
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