SEE is a language... It's English...

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CSign said:
Reba, what YOU'RE describing is a part of why SEE was created in the first place. Sometimes it is necessary to use SEE to convey English grammar for various reasons.

Alleycat, I stand by what I said. In all sincerity I'm sorry you feel that way.
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Only sometimes, not in daily conversational purposes?
 
Reba said:
If the emphasis of the reading is on content, such as a story telling time, that's one way to go. But when the emphasis is on grammar or word choice or literary technique, then it's tough. That's another example of what I mean by using different teaching techniques for hearing and deaf students.

Mainstreaming isn't all that.
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Truer words were never spoken.
 
I am saying sometimes, with the impression that the student/person who is using the interpreter uses ASL as their primary mode of communication.

PFH, you asked why I am "hardcore SEE" now. I appreciate you asking that, although I wouldn't label myself "hardcore SEE.". The reason was/ is because in the research I did, I found that many DHH students were graduating high school with a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. I did not want my son to be one of those statistics. That is a part of why we chose to use SEE. He now has a solid foundation in English to work from. That's not to say that he won't experience any challenges. Every person, deaf or not faces challenges in school. From the knowledge he has now, he will be continue to grow and improve.
As I said before, there is no one right way to do things. Different paths ultimately can lead to the sane place.
 
CSign said:
Reba, what YOU'RE describing is a part of why SEE was created in the first place. Sometimes it is necessary to use SEE to convey English grammar for various reasons.Alleycat, I stand by what I said. In all sincerity I'm sorry you feel that way.
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For teaching purposes in an English class in which the topic is grammar and/or syntax of the English language. Not for communication purposes.
 
CSign said:
I am saying sometimes, with the impression that the student/person who is using the interpreter uses ASL as their primary mode of communication.

PFH, you asked why I am "hardcore SEE" now. I appreciate you asking that, although I wouldn't label myself "hardcore SEE.". The reason was/ is because in the research I did, I found that many DHH students were graduating high school with a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. I did not want my son to be one of those statistics. That is a part of why we chose to use SEE. He now has a solid foundation in English to work from. That's not to say that he won't experience any challenges. Every person, deaf or not faces challenges in school. From the knowledge he has now, he will be continue to grow and improve.
As I said before, there is no one right way to do things. Different paths ultimately can lead to the sane place.
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Same?

Yes but we are all hoping for a higher place.
 
CSign said:
I am saying sometimes, with the impression that the student/person who is using the interpreter uses ASL as their primary mode of communication.

PFH, you asked why I am "hardcore SEE" now. I appreciate you asking that, although I wouldn't label myself "hardcore SEE.". The reason was/ is because in the research I did, I found that many DHH students were graduating high school with a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. I did not want my son to be one of those statistics. That is a part of why we chose to use SEE. He now has a solid foundation in English to work from. That's not to say that he won't experience any challenges. Every person, deaf or not faces challenges in school. From the knowledge he has now, he will be continue to grow and improve.
As I said before, there is no one right way to do things. Different paths ultimately can lead to the sane place.
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You need to carry that research a bit further. Bi-bi has been shown to increase reading levels, not SEE. Using SEE will not increase literacy levels.

Hearing students on average, graduate high school with a 5th grade reading level.

Be careful when using grade level tests to determine performance. The results of grade level testing are not what they seem, and are not what most people believe they are.
 
Bottesini said:
Same?

Yes but we are all hoping for a higher place.
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Exactly. We are attempting to attain a higher level of academic achievement and social functioning for the deaf children of today. Just because the adults of today had obstacles such as SEE thrown in their way doesn't mean we should keep doing it to tiday's kids.
 
CSign said:
I am saying sometimes, with the impression that the student/person who is using the interpreter uses ASL as their primary mode of communication.

PFH, you asked why I am "hardcore SEE" now. I appreciate you asking that, although I wouldn't label myself "hardcore SEE.". The reason was/ is because in the research I did, I found that many DHH students were graduating high school with a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. I did not want my son to be one of those statistics. That is a part of why we chose to use SEE. He now has a solid foundation in English to work from. That's not to say that he won't experience any challenges. Every person, deaf or not faces challenges in school. From the knowledge he has now, he will be continue to grow and improve.
As I said before, there is no one right way to do things. Different paths ultimately can lead to the sane place.
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Look at me, I'm an ASL user, went to a Deaf school, and had lead paint in my crib.... I should be theoretically fucked by your logic.

Now, did you check out the average English level of the hearing population? I believe 40% of them can't read past 8th grade level.
 
jillio said:
You need to carry that research a bit further. Bi-bi has been shown to increase reading levels, not SEE. Using SEE will not increase literacy levels.

Hearing students on average, graduate high school with a 5th grade reading level.

Be careful when using grade level tests to determine performance. The results of grade level testing are not what they seem, and are not what most people believe they are.
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Ah, beat me to it.
 
Reba said:
During reading class, were students and the teacher reading aloud? What exactly were the interpreters doing during reading class?

I'm very interested because sometimes I have to interpret oral readings during English classes. I've never felt satisfied with the way things go during those times. I'm open to suggestions.
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Erhm.... I'll thinka bout this one.
 
posts from hell said:
Look at me, I'm an ASL user, went to a Deaf school, and had lead paint in my crib.... I should be theoretically fucked by your logic.

Now, did you check out the average English level of the hearing population? I believe 40% of them can't read past 8th grade level.
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And when it is measured by grade level testing, hearing high school graduates have a level of 5th grade. People say they research, but they stop before they get all the information. They seem to only go to a point where a little information is a dangerous thing.
 
Or they stop at the point where their 'facts' support their platform and only their platform.
 
jillio said:
Bingo. Which tells you that their platform has a pretty shaky foundation.
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I can't imagine making decisions, that will affect my child's ability to communicate in the future, on such a shaky platform.
 
rebeccalj said:
I can't imagine making decisions, that will affect my child's ability to communicate in the future, on such a shaky platform.
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Nor can I. Which is why I tell parents to do through research. And a large part of that research should include what deaf adults who have lived through being a deaf child experiencing some of these methods has to say about them.
 
Either way, they are graduating with a lower reading level than majority of the graduates. Still is a problem that needs to be addressed. I was asked a direct question, and I gave a direct answer.
My remarkable son has great communication skills, so I guess we just got lucky.
 
CSign said:
Either way, they are graduating with a lower reading level than majority of the graduates. Still is a problem that needs to be addressed. I was asked a direct question, and I gave a direct answer.
My remarkable son has great communication skills, so I guess we just got lucky.
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Yeah, it needs to be addressed, but SEE has already been shown not to be the way to do it. So enjoy those great communication skills while you can.
 
ASLGAL said:
Wow, tired topic revived.

I believe the mis-education of parents regarding SEE comes from well meaning but ill-advised/poorly trained teachers.
The schools in my area have MH classrooms where the teachers use SEE. Why? Because when they were in college, dealing with deaf children was a small block of a quarter and they had the big yellow Signing Exact English book thrust upon them and told 'do this'.
Students in the middle and high school settings are provided aides, not interpreters who were tossed the big yellow book and told 'do this'.

A good example this year was the Christmas Program. My 3yr. old granddaughter is in the preschool program and their song was 'Up on the House Top', to sing and sign. We were excited to help her practice...but...the signs were word word word in English order - or - SEE....no help from us. The audience was thrilled and we heard several comments about how great it was to see classes doing ASL.
Long way around to my point or observation...people are not educated about linguistics and believe ASL and MCEs are the same thing and interchangable. :(
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Exactly.
 
AlleyCat said:
Yep, we're the ones who actually lived it. Now that we are adults and try to explain just how awful or how hard it was, we just get told to STFU, basically. My parents were no different than most of the other parents on this board - they were trying to do the right thing.
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That's because we are deaf and to them, we are not as intelligent as they are. Same old BS like with the medical community. They brush us off. Always.
 
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