Science or Spirituality...You Choose:

AquaBlue said:
you would think so Jiro. That makes very good sence. But a Free thinker, as defined in scientific circles, is a person who is "free" from the restraints of religion and open to the evidence presented by sience. That's how FREE THINKERS are defined today. I do not like the term because it could be misunderstood to mean something else...like your definition Jiro.

Instead, I think that Free Thinkers should be erased and the phrase, Science Believers (or something similiar to that) might be better so as confusion of terms might not happen.
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From wiki:

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma.

Perhaps you're confusing free thinking as "discrediting religion" rather than "not bound by religion".

Since you said that spiritual thinking and science are mutually exclusive, meaning scientists cannot believe ANYTHING a spiritual person believes.

Here is a question for you. What about things that science can't explain? What to do then? Just kind of leave it as a "blank" or "TBD"?
 
"Once Upon A True" has nothing to do with TODAY.

Actually the world's most notable scienctists KNOW that evolution is not a SCIENTIFIC theory (a scientific thoary is (ay all) the same as a simple everyday theory), buy a scientific FACT. Why? The genome evidence (volumes and volumes of undesuted factual data) says, without question, that evolution is indeed a straight-up FACT. This is the MODERN scientific perspective.

Forget about carbon data and all that because that old news. Today's news is different...much different. Evolution does not carry any doubts today...no any longer.
 
Things do indeed evolve. But how was the first phase created?
 
Daredevel7 said:
From wiki:

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma.

Perhaps you're confusing free thinking as "discrediting religion" rather than "not bound by religion".

Since you said that spiritual thinking and science are mutually exclusive, meaning scientists cannot believe ANYTHING a spiritual person believes.

Here is a question for you. What about things that science can't explain? What to do then? Just kind of leave it as a "blank" or "TBD"?
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things that science (nor religion...nor anybody) is just UNKNOWN...a mystery. like the birds that falling from the sky (in the news lately) and the fish dead on the shore. Those are mysteries. they don't support either science or religion. they are just mysteries.
 
AquaBlue said:
"Once Upon A True" has nothing to do with TODAY.
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LOL.. seriously?

Are you saying that we have all the technological capability to prove anything we wanted? Or that EVERYTHING that a scientist spurts out from doing tests, data gathering, and research is a fact?

seriously?
 
saywhatkid said:
Things do indeed evolve. But how was the first phase created?
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I personally do not know but just because I do not have an answer (PErSONALLY) doesn't that there might be (again I haven't a clue) a hypothasis regarding your superb question. Also we can't never say that since science can't answer than my answer is true. I PERSONALLY do not know as much about the BIG BANG theory to give a proper and true reply. Let;s not take a mystery and turn it into our own manufatured solution. No one knows so no one should turn it into proof for their truth.
 
Daredevel7 said:
LOL.. seriously?

Are you saying that we have all the technological capability to prove anything we wanted? Or that EVERYTHING that a scientist spurts out from doing tests, data gathering, and research is a fact?

seriously?
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what i am saying is that science TODAY is a whole new ballgame. Ten years ago we did nt know squat. Now science has omitted and formulated and resetablished itself because of the new evidence (mostly in biology) that the landscape has changed dramatically. that's all i am saying.
 
AquaBlue said:
I personally do not know but just because I do not have an answer (PErSONALLY) doesn't that there might be (again I haven't a clue) a hypothasis regarding your superb question. Also we can't never say that since science can't answer than my answer is true. I PERSONALLY do not know as much about the BIG BANG theory to give a proper and true reply. Let;s not take a mystery and turn it into our own manufatured solution. No one knows so no one should turn it into proof for their truth.
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Well scientists have stated that the Big Bang Theory is the accepted theory for the start of the universe. Why not accept it as PROOF as the theory of evolution? There's some evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory.
 
AquaBlue said:
what i am saying is that science TODAY is a whole new ballgame. Ten years ago we did nt know squat. Now science has omitted and formulated and resetablished itself because of the new evidence (mostly in biology) that the landscape has changed dramatically. that's all i am saying.
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Someone like you is going to say the SAME THING 10 years from now.
 
we all will. science grows and changes - the facts we will gain in ten years will be based on the facts we have now daredevel. Scientific evidence will multiply and truth (reality) will be clearer. you comment is correct in that sence.
 
AquaBlue said:
Christion Science people, from what I understand, do not give their children medications when they are ill. Instead they prey to the air. No science there.

Darwin was a Christian with fundamental DOUBTS about god.
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They pray on the basis that God can heal. Their theology is Biblically based. However it doesn't necessarily mean that they refuse medical treatment. Those who neglect their children and use religion as an excuse are negligent and are considered extremists.

Christian Scientists that I refer to are who actually do study science in all fields of it and yet remain practicing Christians.

For example an archeologists can be studying primitive European civilizations and still practice Christianity.

I have a friend who is a biologist with the State and yet she believes completely in the Bible.

It is sound doctrine to say that our time and Gods time are two totally different concepts. One day is 1,000 years and 1,000 years is one day. You can't read that in a literal sense because much of the Bible is written metaphorically or in parables.

Much of what is in the Bible has been proven to be true through archeology (a science!) and carbon dating. Look at Israel it is an archeological haven, thousands flock to this region to prove or disprove biblical things.

A doctor, a dentist, a veterinarian, a biologist,and a nurse are all in my church. By definition they are scientists as they have studied it or are currently studying it and they still believe in the divine. They also take their children to the doctor when they are ill, but also pray for a speedy recovery from the illness.
 
AquaBlue said:
"Once Upon A True" has nothing to do with TODAY.

Actually the world's most notable scienctists KNOW that evolution is not a SCIENTIFIC theory (a scientific thoary is (ay all) the same as a simple everyday theory), buy a scientific FACT. Why? The genome evidence (volumes and volumes of undesuted factual data) says, without question, that evolution is indeed a straight-up FACT. This is the MODERN scientific perspective.

Forget about carbon data and all that because that old news. Today's news is different...much different. Evolution does not carry any doubts today...no any longer.
Click to expand...

Just curious, are all scientists as good at spelling as you are?
 
This thread is way too deep for me. It's also treading on thin ice. Be careful, y'all. Discussing religion can become very, very tricky.
 
Dixie said:
They pray on the basis that God can heal. Their theology is Biblically based. However it doesn't necessarily mean that they refuse medical treatment. Those who neglect their children and use religion as an excuse are negligent and are considered extremists.

Christian Scientists that I refer to are who actually do study science in all fields of it and yet remain practicing Christians.

For example an archeologists can be studying primitive European civilizations and still practice Christianity.

I have a friend who is a biologist with the State and yet she believes completely in the Bible.

It is sound doctrine to say that our time and Gods time are two totally different concepts. One day is 1,000 years and 1,000 years is one day. You can't read that in a literal sense because much of the Bible is written metaphorically or in parables.

Much of what is in the Bible has been proven to be true through archeology (a science!) and carbon dating. Look at Israel it is an archeological haven, thousands flock to this region to prove or disprove biblical things.

A doctor, a dentist, a veterinarian, a biologist,and a nurse are all in my church. By definition they are scientists as they have studied it or are currently studying it and they still believe in the divine. They also take their children to the doctor when they are ill, but also pray for a speedy recovery from the illness.
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Oh yes,there does indeed exist science-minded folks who are spiritually strong in their faith. But have you seen just have very few of such oes there are my friend? I personally have a great repect for the bible...please do not thin I do not. I adore the bible. It's spiritually, faith, god, the intangibles that I question. It can be true that they are producs of the mind, intangible as well. But one can't use method of science to either prove it as being factual (i'm talking the spiritual end of things) or falsehood. EVERYONE should read/study the bible. But with that said, for me, it's hard to plant my feet on spiritually plane. There is just no footing spiritually speaking. it's like saying that our dreams are divine canons that we should follow in order to reach immortally. What can you hold on to? Nothing. Now with science you have volumes upon volumes of proven evidence that the direction toward truth is not the same as that of religion (in any form). These are not what PEOPLE are sayng, this is what the data is saying.

Regardless, read your bibles as often as you can and meditate (don't pray or devolpe a faith in a super human entity) on the lessons taught.
 
AquaBlue said:
Oh yes,there does indeed exist science-minded folks who are spiritually strong in their faith. But have you seen just have very few of such oes there are my friend? I personally have a great repect for the bible...please do not thin I do not. I adore the bible. It's spiritually, faith, god, the intangibles that I question. It can be true that they are producs of the mind, intangible as well. But one can't use method of science to either prove it as being factual (i'm talking the spiritual end of things) or falsehood. EVERYONE should read/study the bible. But with that said, for me, it's hard to plant my feet on spiritually plane. There is just no footing spiritually speaking. it's like saying that our dreams are divine canons that we should follow in order to reach immortally. What can you hold on to? Nothing. Now with science you have volumes upon volumes of proven evidence that the direction toward truth is not the same as that of religion (in any form). These are not what PEOPLE are sayng, this is what the data is saying.

Regardless, read your bibles as often as you can and meditate (don't pray or devolpe a faith in a super human entity) on the lessons taught.
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If you adore the Bible so much, then why are you denying the very foundation of it??

It is proven fact that patients who are undergoing medical treatment that pray regularly tend to respond better to those treatments as well as having faster recoveries.

Those that do not typically do not respond well to the treatment and have a slower recovery.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
This thread is way too deep for me. It's also treading on thin ice. Be careful, y'all. Discussing religion can become very, very tricky.
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I agree wholeheartedly. But so far, and this yet another major reason why I adore the Deaf culture, respect is being maintain throughout the discussion. Hearing folks, generally speaking (not me), are NOT this way at all. I attribute the mutual respect displayed in this thread as a mature and healthy way deaf folks go about life
 
AquaBlue said:
I agree wholeheartedly. But so far, and this yet another major reason why I adore the Deaf culture, respect is being maintain throughout the discussion. Hearing folks, generally speaking (not me), are NOT this way at all. I attribute the mutual respect displayed in this thread as a mature and healthy way deaf folks go about life
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:shock:
 
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