Russia proposes change in the Constitution.

[Foxrac]

Jiro, Do you know about PATRIOT Act? Is it take our rights away?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I really can't understand why you think the UK is a police state, if it's the cameras we have everywhere, the majority of the public are behind them, if they weren't, being a democratic country we'd have them removed, I know you will find some examples of people who hate them, i could also find examples of people who back them.

they have been installed in troublesome areas town centres etc, where fights are common place, they police can now protect the innocent public much quicker.

A women being abducted by a rapist has been saved due to the attack being spotted on cameras, the poilce got there 3 minutes after the abduction, the guy got away but was indetified by the public who recognised him from the footage, a five year old girl was adbucted in a village not far from me, a member of the public spotted it and alerted the police, who missed the guy, but the cameras located the van, police rushed to the scene and found the little girl bound and stuffed inside a sack, luckily they got there before he sexually abused her, and would have killed her, the man had raped and murdered another 7 young girls through the years, if we had had cameras back then we'd probally caught him then and saved lives.
Robbers, murders and even would be terrorists bombers have been caught before they could do anything.

they only people losing any privacy is criminals, terrorists and murderers, so I fail to see whats wrong with that, after all it's for our protection they are being used.

unless of course, there's another reason you think the UK is a police state? can't for the life of me work it out though, our police are very helpful, and as someone said don't carry guns, but there are armed response units on the move 24/7 in the uk and ready to respond to any incident. but as guns are not so readily available here, most incidents pass without the need for the response teams

and also the fact we idea we don't have freedom of speech is just ridiculous and laughable, if that was the case then we'd have our own Guantánamo Bay, here the police can't arrest someone for freedom of speech, the only way we can if they incite violence.
the police have found themself not being able to arrest some of the muslim extremists spouting their drivel to the masses as it's an abuse of their human rights, now the vast majority of the Uk want them to be arrested for spouting hatred of the wetern world(and sent back home), but the police can't act until they incite violence, I wouldn't believe all the drivel you read online.
now if they could be arrested, locked up without a trial, now then that I would call a police state, but no, our laws are run by the justice system and the police have to abide by their laws.

I cannot understand why Americans negative about "Police State". To me, it's easy and helpful for police and security officers to find them.../save them...

Remember the example about James Bulger's killers.

Murder of James Bulger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Without camera, the police would not know who James's killers are. The camera helped police to find them and arrest them on next day to prevent from the killers to walk around for weeks or months to repeat kill others...

It's really tiresome when someone keep on say that Europe have no freedom of speech or no free country... :roll:

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, Do you know about PATRIOT Act? Is it take our rights away?

yes. It's a serious violation of civil rights. I was very appalled that people continued to vote for it. I supported it as a response to 9/11 only with a very limited time but it has been too long, unnecessary, and costly.

 

[Maria]

that's up to you. Point is - you were weeping about the Constitution's "dying" and that you sound as if you lost faith in it. And now you just mentioned that you bought a nice little book about U.S. Constitution. You wept as if the Constitution was poetic and beautiful... which sounds like you have a deep faith in it that it will prevail... no matter what.

I don't weep about the Constitution's " dyin' ". I am just sad to see that the US Constitution has already been eroded. I still have my faith in the universe and I am sure you KNOW who I am talkin' about.

That's a rather odd change in your attitude. I am confused.... :scratch:

I am always the same as I am. I just miss the " old days " where there was a " pursuit of happiness ". We don't have that anymore.

 

[Jiro]

I cannot understand why Americans negative about "Police State". To me, it's easy and helpful for police and security officers to find them.../save them...

Remember the example about James Bulger's killers.

Murder of James Bulger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Without camera, the police would not know who James's killers are. The camera helped police to find them and arrest them on next day to prevent from the killers to walk around for weeks or months to repeat kill others...

It's really tiresome when someone keep on say that Europe have no freedom of speech or no free country... :roll:

because we want our privacy and our rights.

Scenario 1
Picture this - it's 2am and you were feeling stressed out... unable to sleep. So you decide to go out for a drive. The town is very quiet and peaceful but you're out there in middle of night, driving past a certain street that was known for drug sales. You were just simply driving by and all of sudden, the cop pulled you over, detained you, accused you of buying drug. The cop interrogated you - it's very late. what are you doing here? Who are you? where do you live? Do you own gun? Who is your husband? etc. etc. etc.

Scenario 2
You went to public library to borrow some books and most of these books were about Klu Klux Klan because you were curious about their history and stuff. But in a few hours or next day, you got a door knock from police because the computer said you checked out several books about it. The police took you to police station to interrogate you, thinking you're a Domestic Dissent.

Scenario 3
The government have cameras all over. The government said they will take care of you as long as you listen to them and follow the laws. One day - you came out of store that sells cigarette and some smoking device - you just wanted to buy a pack of cigarette (I know you don't smoke but just pretend you do). You got approached by cops, thinking that you bought some drug paraphernalia (such as smoking pipe for weed) because they saw you thru camera. The police checked your bag, asked you lot of questions, and collected your information.

WTF is that? That's the definition of Police State. Americans do not want to entrust their lives on government for security. Americans pride themselves with rights and freedom to protect themselves, not by government. If you want government to take care of you - that's fine. It's your choice.

 

[Macian]

because we want our privacy and our rights.

Scenario 1
Picture this - it's 2am and you were feeling stressed out... unable to sleep. So you decide to go out for a drive. The town is very quiet and peaceful but you're out there in middle of night, driving past a certain street that was known for drug sales. You were just simply driving by and all of sudden, the cop pulled you over, detained you, accused you of buying drug. The cop interrogated you - it's very late. what are you doing here? Who are you? where do you live? Do you own gun? Who is your husband? etc. etc. etc.

Scenario 2
You went to public library to borrow some books and most of these books were about Klu Klux Klan because you were curious about their history and stuff. But in a few hours or next day, you got a door knock from police because the computer said you checked out several books about it. The police took you to police station to interrogate you, thinking you're a Domestic Dissent.

Scenario 3
The government have cameras all over. The government said they will take care of you as long as you listen to them and follow the laws. One day - you came out of store that sells cigarette and some smoking device - you just wanted to buy a pack of cigarette (I know you don't smoke but just pretend you do). You got approached by cops, thinking that you bought some drug paraphernalia (such as smoking pipe for weed) because they saw you thru camera. The police checked your bag, asked you lot of questions, and collected your information.

WTF is that? That's the definition of Police State. Americans do not want to entrust their lives on government for security. Americans pride themselves with rights and freedom to protect themselves, not by government. If you want government to take care of you - that's fine. It's your choice.

Jiro, that maybe is what would happen in the US but it has never happened here, and if i get pulled over for them asking me what I'm doing at this time of the night, I have nothing to fear so I'd tell them, and be pleased they are monitoring things to keep us safe, and they certainly don't monitor the library withdrawals, half the time the library can't either lol
I find it a bit worrying some people would put up with deaths abductions etc(avoidable)just so they can't be monitored, what have they got to hide?
having said that, I live in a small vllage, the cameras are all used in heavy populated towns, so the burgularies and what not are increasing in the rural areas where no cameras can catch them, one downside.
but every country is different in their opinions and what they want, but it is rather interesting reading them and trying to make sense of it, like you no doubt have to do with ours, different worlds almost eh.

 

[Macian]

ps lieblling, it was weeks before they identified james buglers killers thanks to the footage, and not as you say the following day.

 

[Foxrac]

because we want our privacy and our rights.

Scenario 1
Picture this - it's 2am and you were feeling stressed out... unable to sleep. So you decide to go out for a drive. The town is very quiet and peaceful but you're out there in middle of night, driving past a certain street that was known for drug sales. You were just simply driving by and all of sudden, the cop pulled you over, detained you, accused you of buying drug. The cop interrogated you - it's very late. what are you doing here? Who are you? where do you live? Do you own gun? Who is your husband? etc. etc. etc.

Scenario 2
You went to public library to borrow some books and most of these books were about Klu Klux Klan because you were curious about their history and stuff. But in a few hours or next day, you got a door knock from police because the computer said you checked out several books about it. The police took you to police station to interrogate you, thinking you're a Domestic Dissent.

Scenario 3
The government have cameras all over. The government said they will take care of you as long as you listen to them and follow the laws. One day - you came out of store that sells cigarette and some smoking device - you just wanted to buy a pack of cigarette (I know you don't smoke but just pretend you do). You got approached by cops, thinking that you bought some drug paraphernalia (such as smoking pipe for weed) because they saw you thru camera. The police checked your bag, asked you lot of questions, and collected your information.

WTF is that? That's the definition of Police State. Americans do not want to entrust their lives on government for security. Americans pride themselves with rights and freedom to protect themselves, not by government. If you want government to take care of you - that's fine. It's your choice.

Yup, I have agree with you, my friend.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, that maybe is what would happen in the US but it has never happened here, and if i get pulled over for them asking me what I'm doing at this time of the night, I have nothing to fear so I'd tell them, and be pleased they are monitoring things to keep us safe.
I find it a bit worrying some people would put up with deaths abductions etc(avoidable)just so they can't be monitored, what have they got to hide?
having said that, I live in a small vllage, the cameras are all used in heavy populated towns, so the burgularies and what not are increasing in the rural areas where no cameras can catch them, one downside.
but every country is different in their opinions and what they want, but it is rather interesting reading them and trying to make sense of it, like you no doubt have to do with ours, different worlds almost eh.

that's the thing. In here - we would feel violated if police question us about anything. It's like when you come home late and your mom asked you where have you been all night. your response would be "it's none of your business." (not to mean that you're an adult living at home with mom but just trying to make a point). It's none of cop's business to know what I'm doing unless I'm breaking the law.

and as for cameras - that's the point.... we want to protect ourselves, not count on government 100%. if most of the residents are armed, the burglary rates would be low.

 

[Macian]

that's the thing. In here - we would feel violated if police question us about anything. It's like when you come home late and your mom asked you where have you been all night. your response would be "it's none of your business." (not to mean that you're an adult living at home with mom but just trying to make a point). It's none of cop's business to know what I'm doing unless I'm breaking the law.

and as for cameras - that's the point.... we want to protect ourselves, not count on government 100%. if most of the residents are armed, the burglary rates would be low.

to be honest i ahve no idea what your burgalary rates are there, ours has ben droppign fast since cameras were installed, and the police rarely stop people to question them late at night, I know as i worked nightshift for 10 years and was stopped twice durign that time, all they did was stick their head in my window asked where i ws going, it was drink drivers they were lookign for, when they couldnt smell alcohol, they passed friendly banter and i was on my way.
it's mainly for fights, abductions ect, and to track criminals. I fail to see the US reason for not wanting them, as the US seems to not undertand our reasons for wanting it here, I guess we trust our police more and corruption isn't so rife amongst them.

ps, a fact for you, no doubt which will renienforce your beliefs, i watched the police talk about their camera rooms a few weeks back on TV, they themself said, on an average day every person in the uk will be seen by 300 cameras, not just police though, stores security etc, even I didn't belive it to be that many.

 

[Jiro]

to be honest i ahve no idea what your burgalary rates are there, ours has ben droppign fast since cameras were installed, and the police rarely stop people to question them late at night, I know as i worked nightshift for 10 years and was stopped twice durign that time, all they did was stick their head in my window asked where i ws going, it was drink drivers they were lookign for, when they couldnt smell alcohol, they passed friendly banter and i was on my way.
it's mainly for fights, abductions ect, and to track criminals. I fail to see the US reason for not wanting them, as the US seems to not undertand our reasons for wanting it here, I guess we trust our police more and corruption isn't so rife amongst them.

ps, a fact for you, no doubt which will renienforce your beliefs, i watched the police talk about their camera rooms a few weeks back on TV, they themself said, on an average day every person in the uk will be seen by 300 cameras, not just police though, stores security etc, even I didn't belive it to be that many.

Completely understandable. It's just a different cultural belief in here. Like I said - we pride ourselves in our personal freedom with no/limited government involvement.... meaning we can have guns for personal security.

In your case - you prefer to give up your personal freedom for "Big Brother" security... which led to a drop in crime rate. For us - we are given less gun restriction... which led to a drop in crime rate. Both works the same but in a different way. Obviously - I prefer the latter.

see links below about towns with mandatory gun laws
Southern U.S. town proud of its mandatory gun law
Town requires residents to get a gun

 

[Macian]

Completely understandable. It's just a different cultural belief in here. Like I said - we pride ourselves in our personal freedom with no/limited government involvement.... meaning we can have guns for personal security.

In your case - you prefer to give up your personal freedom for "Big Brother" security... which led to a drop in crime rate. For us - we are given less gun restriction... which led to a drop in crime rate. Both works the same but in a different way. Obviously - I prefer the latter.

see links below about towns with mandatory gun laws
Southern U.S. town proud of its mandatory gun law
Town requires residents to get a gun

the downside of that is when someone flips they take people with them, a minor domestic can end up with deaths, to us there is more pitfalls than gains.

 

[Jiro]

the downside of that is when someone flips they take people with them, a minor domestic can end up with deaths, to us there is more pitfalls than gains.

which is typical concern for anti-gunner and funny thing is.... it's actually rare. why? because they will be taken out before they take them down with themselves.

 

[Macian]

which is typical concern for anti-gunner and funny thing is.... it's actually rare. why? because they will be taken out before they take them down with themselves.

guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, we like the fact we know the vast majority of nutters out there are not armed to the teeth, we might not get him first, we don't live life at the O.K Corralnor want to

ps i used to own 3 guns, but back then i used to hunt alot and did clay pigeon competitions twice a week, when I stopped hunting and participating in competitions i sold my guns and handed my licence back in, as i had no need for them.

 

[Jiro]

guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, we like the fact we know the vast majority of nutters out there are not armed to the teeth, we might not get him first, we don't live life at the O.K Corralnor want to

ps i used to own 3 guns, but back then i used to hunt alot and did clay pigeon competitions twice a week, when I stopped hunting and participating in competitions i sold my guns and handed my licence back in, as i had no need for them.

and we like the fact that we can defend ourselves against vast majority of nutters (with whatever the weapon they have) as well.

 

[jillio]

I am always the same as I am. I just miss the " old days " where there was a " pursuit of happiness ". We don't have that anymore.

Nothing prevents you from pursuing your happiness. Given your position on gay marraige, however, it would appear that you are intent on preventing others from pursuing their own happiness.

 

[jillio]

Completely understandable. It's just a different cultural belief in here. Like I said - we pride ourselves in our personal freedom with no/limited government involvement.... meaning we can have guns for personal security.

In your case - you prefer to give up your personal freedom for "Big Brother" security... which led to a drop in crime rate. For us - we are given less gun restriction... which led to a drop in crime rate. Both works the same but in a different way. Obviously - I prefer the latter.

see links below about towns with mandatory gun laws
Southern U.S. town proud of its mandatory gun law
Town requires residents to get a gun

Sorry jiro, but dependable sociological studies do not indicate that lower restrictions on guns results in a reduction in crime rate.

 

[Reba]

thats because out of sight out of mind.

No, it's because facilities holding dangerous people shouldn't be plunked into residential areas where the perimeter can't be controlled.

you only call them war prisoners to suit yourself when needed, most of the time you call them terrorists, I believe them to be terrorists and should be tried as criminals

No, it's not just me calling them that. There are legal and technical differentiations.

we have nothing to prove, it's the US that are holding them, innocent until proven guilty, so that is for them to prove in the courts.

Yes, if you make an accusation you need to back it up with proof. Otherwise, any one can make up any accusation.

If you believe in "innocent until proven guilty" then you how can you say all these things are happening at Gitmo without proof?

I don't need to "think" the pictures do the thinking, bound up like animals, tortured on planes etc.

Where are the pictures from inside Gitmo?

is it any surprise they attack the gaurds when beign treated worse than animals.

Do you have proof that they are being "treated worse than animals"?

... don't lower yourself to their level and treat them like animals.

Are they being treated like animals? How do you know that?

They are fed special diets to meet their religious and cultural needs, given Korans and prayer rugs, and medical care.

...After an inspection by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe in March 2006, a Belgian police official said, “At the level of detention facilities, it is a model prison, where people are better treated than in Belgian prisons....”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/opinion/26davis.html

 

[Macian]

No, it's because facilities holding dangerous people shouldn't be plunked into residential areas where the perimeter can't be controlled.

so there are no deserts, jungles or remote places in the US? fi so it renders your comments pointless.

No, it's not just me calling them that. There are legal and technical differentiations.

I didn't say ti was only you, bush said it constantly, they were only war prisoners when he was defending your policies, the rest of the time terrorists.

Yes, if you make an accusation you need to back it up with proof. Otherwise, any one can make up any accusation.

If you believe in "innocent until proven guilty" then you how can you say all these things are happening at Gitmo without proof?



Where are the pictures from inside Gitmo?



Do you have proof that they are being "treated worse than animals"?

I can hardly believe you're the only one if the world who hasn't seen them, here';s one link of them being transorted and one picture of them in the prison, there's loads out there, if you want more try google, we are not allowed to transort animals like this in the UK




Are they being treated like animals? How do you know that?

They are fed special diets to meet their religious and cultural needs, given Korans and prayer rugs, and medical care.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/opinion/26davis.html

other pictures have ben plastered all over the papers, I'm sure they need to fly them around the world, torturing them whislt giving them special diets etc, but I suppose that might be what you all medical care. but not us.

ps, if you ahd proof then why wouldn't they be tried in a court of law? they wont because they know they'd have to let them go.

 

[Macian]

damn i still havent got used to thsi quote thingy and forgot to paste the link reba, here's one of many, the rest you can find yourself.


Guantanamo Bay Prisoners' Pictures

cut and paste i cant even work the damn url in this site lol