Respect for all

jillio said:
:gpost: I don't know of anyone here that chooses to use "just ASL only". Given the fact that even the strongest ASL users are typing written words, it would seem to be that they are using ASL and English.
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:dunno: I dont know of anyone who choose to be ASL only.
 
jillio said:
[/B]

Why are you yelling?

And isn't the bolded statement above a bit judgemental for someone who claims to respect others and their decisions?
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Thank u.
 
Buffalo said:
Maybe the better question is do the hearing people in general really respect the Deafs' choices?? It is absolutely unfair for the government to allow the hearing people to decide on the education, jobs and even the reproductive rights for the Deaf population. Even they allowed parents to have CI put in the infant's head (scalpel to the head) so the kid can be more like hearing just like the parents. The government didn't stop it after the first death from CI-related complication(s). When those two American lesbians want a deaf child, one of them got pregnant the old fashioned way (where is the scalpel???) when they found a guy with 5 generations of deafness. Guess what? The British is trying to chip away the deaf population's reproductive rights with the Clause 14. I won't be surprised if the USA and other countries tried to emulate that. The Chinese government already required the Deaf Chinese to get the proof of sterilization before he/she can get married.

The fact is that the hearing people have too much power over the deaf popluation. I believe that it is time for the Deaf Education to be under all-Deaf school board, not all-hearing school board. The hearing people had over 100 years of oralism and doesn't have much to show for it. The fourth grade reading skill of the average Deaf people? That is the proof of failure. The hearing people aren't going to relinquish their control of Deaf Education over to the Deaf people. The hearing people still don't listen to the Deaf people on the education for the Deaf. They listened to Stokoe (hearing) when he announced that ASL is a language in its own right. To me, TC is a long hesitant before the switch over to Bi-Bi. According to this link- (Sign language may help deaf children learn English) they are changing to Bi-Bi after hearing psychologists made this finding. Nothing is new under the sun.

I find that very odd that you want us all to respect each other for different opinions. I have seen how snippy some of you guys can be, including you. I have seen your posts where you touted the oral education. It sounds like that you forbade your kids to learn ASL until much later on. You even told Vampryox that ASL should be the deaf person's personal choice (as in when the deaf person is older). I doubt that you would ever agree that CI should be the deaf person's personal choice (as in when the deaf person is older). I see the CI is a big gamble as no one can be sure of the outcome. That is why I think the ASL should be there from the beginning so to improve the deaf child's education and should be there as a safety net if the CI is in the picture. After all, ASL does improve the hearing child's vocabulary so why deny the same thing to a deaf child.
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Can I ask what are you doing to change the Deaf community? Are you working with Deaf Schools and school boards? Just so I understand, since you believe in a deaf only school board then parents who are hearing like Jillio and Rick would not be allowed to serve on the board or do you mean just people who have a stake in deaf education like parents and deaf members?
 
jackiesolorzano said:
I have a question for all. If I can respect people's choices to just use ASL then why can't people respect my choices to raise my deaf teenagers orally and have them implanted. I do not understand why some people think they have the right to tell me that it was not my right to implant my children. What is happening is that a lot of you are scaring new parents away from seeking information from people in the Deaf culture. Why can we not just agree to disagree and treat each other with respect. Why can't people just admit that cochlear implants can be a very valuable tool
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I used to be against cochlear implants in children because of the attitudes of some hearing parents, ever since the improved hearing technologies came out, some of these parents refused to learn sign language with their child, They're so focus on speech and hearing. :ugh3: Many Deaf adults including myself have told the hearing parents how we have suffered because our family members have refused to be flexible in using communication modes. (including sign language). That's been ignored quite often and it's sad. I have only recommend all hearing parents of deaf children to use sign language too, don't cut that out of the deaf child's life, not at any time. It's so frustrated to get through some hearing parents, who prefer to go in their way, without trying to understand where some of us are coming from. While I have no problem with your choice of chosen oral, if it works for your child then great. but signs play the biggest role in the child's life too, Let's not forget that. :)

jackiesolorzano said:
BUT MY CHILDREN DO NOT NEED SIGN LANGUAGE SO WHY IS THIS YOUR CONCERN.
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And Why not? You know, I personally have nothing against you, but just the attitude of some hearing parents including You, What blews me away that 30 years later, views have not changed much between ASL versus Oral. Why does it have to be either one of them? Why not both? :(

jackiesolorzano said:
I DO RESPECT YOU AND OTHERS THAT HAVE CHOSEN THEIR MODE OF COMMUNICATION
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We were not able to choose which mode of communication we want, it was given to us by our parents just like how you gave your children theirs.

jackiesolorzano said:
I AM GLAD THAT THEY DO KNOW BOTH NOW. I AM GLAD THAT THEY HAVE FRIENDS THAT ARE ORAL, ORAL AND SIGNERS, AND ONLY SIGNERS. I LIKE THEIR FRIENDS THEY ARE VERY ACCEPTING OF MY CHILDREN. I HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF THEIR ONLY SIGNING FRIENDS TELL ME THAT THEY WISHED THEY COULD TALK.
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Now they know signs?, I thought you said from your previous post that your children did not need to learn sign language. :confused:
 
I do not need to post extra because Cheri said everything is good enough.

Jackie, I respect you as parents what you think best for your children when we see different as you but I think nothing wrong when we share our past experience what and how we had through and know what it is about. If your children are happy what they are then is great which we doesn't because our parents want us do what they wants instead of consider our feeling.

I personally disagree to have oral only because my hubby was raised oral. I see through him. I prefer to know what I really am, not do what my parents want and fulfill my parent's dream wish but my own dream wish. I guess it's selfish wish of the parents who wish their children do to fulfill their wish.

Remember, each child is different.

I don't force my children to sign because I am deaf and signing with speak/lip movement. I do what I am and do what they are and let my children see what I am... then they sign themselves automatic thru watch from us without get force from us. I would not upset if my children don't want sign but accept if they want to speak because I has no problem to know their lip movement when they speak... :)

It does the same with deaf children... The parents can speak what they are and want to learn sign how to communicate with their deaf children instead of force deaf children to oral only. Leave them what they are... If they want to use oral then leave them... If they want to sign without speaking/lipmovement then leave them... If they want to sign with speak/lipmovement then leave them.... They will know what they really want later...


 
jillio said:
Apology accepted. Yes, typing in all caps is considered to be yelling. That is why we usually use a different color font or italics when we reply within post.
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I would have typed in a different colored font but I am not at home on my regular computer, i know how to use my home pc and i trying to figure out my lap top. Without my son here teaching how to use this lap top, i am trying to figure it out myself.
 
deafdyke said:
Ummm Jackie, many of US were oral only. NOBODY HERE is one of those Deaf extremists who is advocating "only Sign" for ALL dhh kids.
Lots of us raised oral kids are glad we have oral abilty. We're just wondering why oral only runs on a really kind of audist platform, where Sign or anything else like that is an afterthought.
It's so ironic.................AG Bell etc implies that there's "freedom in listening and talking" BUT, on the other hand oral only kids can't function without hearing aids and CIs.
Many of us wouldn't appear to be anti-oral if more pro oralonliers were working with a full toolbox approach. Instead they are working with the approach that oral is best, and anything else is "special needs" or a "inhibitory crutch"
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I have never approached as oral is the best and that all deaf children need to be raised as oral only. My children do have a toolbox, but it our decision what they need in their toolbox. Not all deaf children need the same things in their toolbox. Just because thye are oral does not mean they are not deaf. It is actually deaf adults that have told my children they are HH not deaf/ I have explain to my children that they are deaf and function as HH when they have their devices on.
 
Let me tell you about the story when the audiologist told us that our children were deaf. You know what they said that my children would never read above a 3rd grade level and would never talk. What hit the most was that they would never read above a 3rd grade level. That was not acceptable and that is why I began researching. I am very happy to report that both of my children read above a 10th grade level.
I did say that it should a deaf child's choice to learn ASL but don't most you also say that it is child's choice if they want an implant. Yes, I am much more of an oralist. But just because I am an oralist, it does not mean that I believe oral is best or that all deaf children should be oral.


Buffalo said:
Maybe the better question is do the hearing people in general really respect the Deafs' choices?? It is absolutely unfair for the government to allow the hearing people to decide on the education, jobs and even the reproductive rights for the Deaf population. Even they allowed parents to have CI put in the infant's head (scalpel to the head) so the kid can be more like hearing just like the parents. The government didn't stop it after the first death from CI-related complication(s). When those two American lesbians want a deaf child, one of them got pregnant the old fashioned way (where is the scalpel???) when they found a guy with 5 generations of deafness. Guess what? The British is trying to chip away the deaf population's reproductive rights with the Clause 14. I won't be surprised if the USA and other countries tried to emulate that. The Chinese government already required the Deaf Chinese to get the proof of sterilization before he/she can get married.

The fact is that the hearing people have too much power over the deaf popluation. I believe that it is time for the Deaf Education to be under all-Deaf school board, not all-hearing school board. The hearing people had over 100 years of oralism and doesn't have much to show for it. The fourth grade reading skill of the average Deaf people? That is the proof of failure. The hearing people aren't going to relinquish their control of Deaf Education over to the Deaf people. The hearing people still don't listen to the Deaf people on the education for the Deaf. They listened to Stokoe (hearing) when he announced that ASL is a language in its own right. To me, TC is a long hesitant before the switch over to Bi-Bi. According to this link- (Sign language may help deaf children learn English) they are changing to Bi-Bi after hearing psychologists made this finding. Nothing is new under the sun.

I find that very odd that you want us all to respect each other for different opinions. I have seen how snippy some of you guys can be, including you. I have seen your posts where you touted the oral education. It sounds like that you forbade your kids to learn ASL until much later on. You even told Vampryox that ASL should be the deaf person's personal choice (as in when the deaf person is older). I doubt that you would ever agree that CI should be the deaf person's personal choice (as in when the deaf person is older). I see the CI is a big gamble as no one can be sure of the outcome. That is why I think the ASL should be there from the beginning so to improve the deaf child's education and should be there as a safety net if the CI is in the picture. After all, ASL does improve the hearing child's vocabulary so why deny the same thing to a deaf child.
Click to expand...
 
Cheri said:
I used to be against cochlear implants in children because of the attitudes of some hearing parents, ever since the improved hearing technologies came out, some of these parents refused to learn sign language with their child, They're so focus on speech and hearing. :ugh3: Many Deaf adults including myself have told the hearing parents how we have suffered because our family members have refused to be flexible in using communication modes. (including sign language). That's been ignored quite often and it's sad. I have only recommend all hearing parents of deaf children to use sign language too, don't cut that out of the deaf child's life, not at any time. It's so frustrated to get through some hearing parents, who prefer to go in their way, without trying to understand where some of us are coming from. While I have no problem with your choice of chosen oral, if it works for your child then great. but signs play the biggest role in the child's life too, Let's not forget that. :)

And Why not? You know, I personally have nothing against you, but just the attitude of some hearing parents including You, What blews me away that 30 years later, views have not changed much between ASL versus Oral. Why does it have to be either one of them? Why not both? :(


We were not able to choose which mode of communication we want, it was given to us by our parents just like how you gave your children theirs.

YOU ARE RIGHT I KNOW THAT MOST PARENTS CHOICE THE MODE FOR THEIR CHILD JUST AS I DID BUT WHAT I HAVE TOLD MY CHILDREN SINCE AROUND 10 YEARS OLD THAT IF THEY WANT DROP THEIR VOICE AND JUST IMMERSE THEMSELVES IN THE DEAF CULTURE THAT IS JUST FINE WITH US AND THAT BOTH MY HUSBAND AND MYSELF WILL LEARN MORE SIGN LANGUAGE.


Now they know signs?, I thought you said from your previous post that your children did not need to learn sign language. :confused:
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You are right I have said and will always they do not need to learn how to sign to live their lives. I am not against sign language and yes they both do know sign language. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language on a more social level. She can and has been the go between her deaf friends that only sign and her friends' parents do not know sign language. My son thinks he is fluent but he is not really, he does have friends that only sign and he communicates with them but usually I or my daughter have to explain to them what he is trying to say.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
I do not need to post extra because Cheri said everything is good enough.

Jackie, I respect you as parents what you think best for your children when we see different as you but I think nothing wrong when we share our past experience what and how we had through and know what it is about. If your children are happy what they are then is great which we doesn't because our parents want us do what they wants instead of consider our feeling.

I personally disagree to have oral only because my hubby was raised oral. I see through him. I prefer to know what I really am, not do what my parents want and fulfill my parent's dream wish but my own dream wish. I guess it's selfish wish of the parents who wish their children do to fulfill their wish.

Remember, each child is different.

I don't force my children to sign because I am deaf and signing with speak/lip movement. I do what I am and do what they are and let my children see what I am... then they sign themselves automatic thru watch from us without get force from us. I would not upset if my children don't want sign but accept if they want to speak because I has no problem to know their lip movement when they speak... :)

It does the same with deaf children... The parents can speak what they are and want to learn sign how to communicate with their deaf children instead of force deaf children to oral only. Leave them what they are... If they want to use oral then leave them... If they want to sign without speaking/lipmovement then leave them... If they want to sign with speak/lipmovement then leave them.... They will know what they really want later...


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When my kids were diagnosis, we really thought about how should we raise them. While I was not against them being raise with sign language I wanted them to have choices. The research that I did showed me that if a profoundly deaf child was raised in both oral and sign language they would take off in the sign language and not the oral language (I know some of you disagree with me but this what I found out back them). Our thoughts were lets raised them in oral language and them when they are old enough to make their own decisions they can just be oral, oral and sign, or drop their voice and just sign. But I was going to give them a choice and they now have a choice. And they are more oral then sign but they have very close friends that just sign and since niether drives yet, I either take them to see their sign only friends or they come to our home but they have choice. I would not change a thing about the way I have raised them. My children know why we made the decisions we have made. I know many of you have said that you wished your parents learned sign language. I would be more then happy to learn sign language. I have taken a couple of classes but am not fluent but I would be more then happy to try to become fluent if my children want me too.
 
I do have a lot dealings with newly diagnosis families. I always tell them about all the other choices there are not just about what I teach. I always tell them that their child can be successful with sign language. But I do tell them that no matter what choice they make they need to embrace completely. I guess we were lucky that we lived in an area that had oral programs and TC programs so we could make a choice. And we were willing to move to get a better program. We move about 3 times when my kids were younger to get into an area that had a better program.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
You are right I have said and will always they do not need to learn how to sign to live their lives. I am not against sign language and yes they both do know sign language. My daughter is quite fluent in sign language on a more social level. She can and has been the go between her deaf friends that only sign and her friends' parents do not know sign language. My son thinks he is fluent but he is not really, he does have friends that only sign and he communicates with them but usually I or my daughter have to explain to them what he is trying to say.
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That's great that your two kids are signers, I for one do not believe in the use of ASL ONLY (but for babies) without the use of speech skills, I believe both should be included. ;) I disagree with AGBell--their ideology of not allowing sign language for deaf babies, Signs with babies helps find out exactly what is going on in a baby’s mind - what does the baby need? What does the baby want? What does the baby observe before they develop those required for speech.


And I also believe that deaf children should be much involve in both worlds.
 
Cheri said:
I used to be against cochlear implants in children because of the attitudes of some hearing parents, ever since the improved hearing technologies came out, some of these parents refused to learn sign language with their child, They're so focus on speech and hearing. :ugh3: Many Deaf adults including myself have told the hearing parents how we have suffered because our family members have refused to be flexible in using communication modes. (including sign language). That's been ignored quite often and it's sad. I have only recommend all hearing parents of deaf children to use sign language too, don't cut that out of the deaf child's life, not at any time. It's so frustrated to get through some hearing parents, who prefer to go in their way, without trying to understand where some of us are coming from. While I have no problem with your choice of chosen oral, if it works for your child then great. but signs play the biggest role in the child's life too, Let's not forget that. :)

Exactly, Cheri. Why not both? No one would tell a Spanish speaking family that their child cannot have both Spanish and English. Why do some people find it so necessary to say that deaf children cannot have both ASL and English?
And Why not? You know, I personally have nothing against you, but just the attitude of some hearing parents including You, What blews me away that 30 years later, views have not changed much between ASL versus Oral. Why does it have to be either one of them? Why not both? :(


We were not able to choose which mode of communication we want, it was given to us by our parents just like how you gave your children theirs.


Now they know signs?, I thought you said from your previous post that your children did not need to learn sign language. :confused:
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:gpost:

Exactly, Cheri. Why not both? No one would tell a Spanish speaking family that their child cannot have both Spanish and English. Why do some people find it so necessary to say that deaf children cannot have both ASL and English?
 
jackiesolorzano said:
I would have typed in a different colored font but I am not at home on my regular computer, i know how to use my home pc and i trying to figure out my lap top. Without my son here teaching how to use this lap top, i am trying to figure it out myself.
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Laptop and desktop work the same way. Keyboard and mouse are simply built into the laptop. But. realy, that's a pretty good comparison. All languages work the same way, in that they provide the ability to receive and express information. But if one needs to use a PC, but is only given a laptop, they are confused. Get it? Sign and oral.
 
jillio said:
:gpost:

Exactly, Cheri. Why not both? No one would tell a Spanish speaking family that their child cannot have both Spanish and English. Why do some people find it so necessary to say that deaf children cannot have both ASL and English?
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LOL Jillio, you wrote the same message inside Cheri's quote too. I'm not sure if you were aware of that. cute.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
I have never approached as oral is the best and that all deaf children need to be raised as oral only. My children do have a toolbox, but it our decision what they need in their toolbox. Not all deaf children need the same things in their toolbox. Just because thye are oral does not mean they are not deaf. It is actually deaf adults that have told my children they are HH not deaf/ I have explain to my children that they are deaf and function as HH when they have their devices on.
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That's just it. The issue is not whether they have a toolbox, it is that they have a full toolbox. If some of the tools don't get used as much as others it doesn't mean they don't need to be there. They are useful for specific jobs.
 
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