POLL: Do you believe in aliens or life outside of earth?

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

She can answer any way she likes, so long as it fits within the rules of AD. I happen agree with her . I also answered in a very similiar way as her.

This was very much an existential question, which brings into it one's belief system. We have to skirt around it to follow the rules, but, we shouldn't have to avoid it. Religious topics should be allowed to be covered so long as it's handled in a general way as Reba did.

How is it even an existentialist question?

The Genesis only explicitly mentioned Earth. It has no bearing over the cosmos. Because it only mentions Earth, then only the Bible is applicable to Earth.

Whether or not God has anything to do with anything outside the planet Earth is outside the realm of Biblical discussion; which makes sense because 2,000 years ago, people weren't ready to deal with the concept of "what is beyond our little planet". Why the hell would a supreme being inflict such heavy philosophical question upon a group of people who did not have the means to explore deep space? It doesn't follow. I know if I was a omnipotent being, I would leave certain concepts out or at least oversimplify it to the point where people can take credence to it.

 

[Reba]

How is it even an existentialist question?

The Genesis only explicitly mentioned Earth. It has no bearing over the cosmos. Because it only mentions Earth, then only the Bible is applicable to Earth.

Correction. The Bible mentions the entire universe in the Creation.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Whether or not God has anything to do with anything outside the planet Earth is outside the realm of Biblical discussion; which makes sense because 2,000 years ago, people weren't ready to deal with the concept of "what is beyond our little planet".

Correction:

The Old Testament books, which include the Creation, were written long before 2,000 years ago. You must be confused with the New Testament books.

Also, the entire Bible includes concepts beyond "our little planet," and people were (and are) quite capable of dealing with those concepts. The only concept humans have a problem with (but God does not) is the infinity of time and space.

Why the hell would a supreme being inflict such heavy philosophical question upon a group of people who did not have the means to explore deep space?

"Inflict?" What an odd choice of wording. Do you feel that man today is inflicted with heavy philosophical questions that they can't deal with? After all, man still hasn't explored deep space.

It doesn't follow. I know if I was a omnipotent being, I would leave certain concepts out or at least oversimplify it to the point where people can take credence to it.

That's why you aren't an omnipotent being.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

Can you prove this?......."other highly intelligent lifeforms"
Why is out always assumed that if THEY are out there, THEY are more intelligent than us?
If post are to be make as fact, then be able to absolutely prove the fact.

They're smart enough to keep away from us!! The aliens could be very peace loving and want nothing to do people that drop bombs on one another!

 

[rolling7]

They're smart enough to keep away from us!! The aliens could be very peace loving and want nothing to do people that drop bombs on one another!

Mankind...the most intelligent creature on the face of the earth

Mankind...the most stupidest creature on the face of the earth

Think about it

 

[DeafBadger]

The question of why we don't have evidence of intelligent aliens is complex and has been addressed by Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, etc. I'd suggest reading their material.

We're talking about extraordinary distances between our worlds, and the extraordinary amounts of time it takes to evolve intelligent species. As well as the possibility that some species may have killed themselves off, as we almost did with nuclear weapons during the Cold War.

Trust me, there are very good reasons why we might not see intelligent aliens here... yet.

 

[KStiletto]

If you were an alien (general question) would you want to visit here?! Hell no. So let's say I believed what the book says, God created heaven, and earth.. So Mars, Jupiter, and Uranus don't exist huh? Or was there a part that was detailed about him creating the solar system as well? Man... I'm just so done with this.

It is what it is..

Btw, I don't want proof of any alien, I'd be scared out of my damn mind!! I don't want to see an alien, ghost, or any of those things. I'll just watch the ghost shows on sci fi in the daytime.

 

[Reba]

...So let's say I believed what the book says, God created heaven, and earth.. So Mars, Jupiter, and Uranus don't exist huh? Or was there a part that was detailed about him creating the solar system as well?

Of course, the planets of our solar system exist. According to the Bible, God created all the heavenly bodies, whatever they have been named since that time. The naming of the planets came after their creation. Also, their classifications are still changing (poor Pluto).

Man... I'm just so done with this.

Since you asked questions, I assume you expect answers.

 

[KStiletto]

Of course, the planets of our solar system exist. According to the Bible, God created all the heavenly bodies, whatever they have been named since that time. The naming of the planets came after their creation. Also, their classifications are still changing (poor Pluto).


Since you asked questions, I assume you expect answers.

I meant to not make this a religious back and forth, I was going to stop where I was. Thanks for responding though.

 

[Reba]

I meant to not make this a religious back and forth, I was going to stop where I was. Thanks for responding though.

Got it.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Correction. The Bible mentions the entire universe in the Creation.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Correction:

The Old Testament books, which include the Creation, were written long before 2,000 years ago. You must be confused with the New Testament books.

Also, the entire Bible includes concepts beyond "our little planet," and people were (and are) quite capable of dealing with those concepts. The only concept humans have a problem with (but God does not) is the infinity of time and space.

"Inflict?" What an odd choice of wording. Do you feel that man today is inflicted with heavy philosophical questions that they can't deal with? After all, man still hasn't explored deep space.

That's why you aren't an omnipotent being.

Oh yay, they explained how the giver of life, the sun, central to everyone's lives regardless of religious affiliation, came to being and why there are sparky lights in the night skies in an overly simplistic vague manner. Impressive.

While the Old Testament is much older, I only mentioned 2,000 years because the New Testament did have shady issues with astrology, which was closely tied to astromony during the days of the ancients. However, it still doesn't touch on the topic of what's on other planets, even empty ones; even though they were well-known to the ancients. That's because the Book was designed for Man and his realm on Earth, not for what is beyond the scope of mankind.

If that is not sufficient, the Bible doesn't really mention other sentient beings on our own planet: dolphins, whales, elephants and the great apes-- beings with self-recognization, empathy, kinship, their own moral codes and potential for complex communications. The Bible does handle mankind's relations to the animal kingdom; but not specific members of the the said kingdom. If that is not an indicator the scripture is only meant for Man to follow, then one might as well be talking to a wall.

By exploring deep space, I means radio telementry, telescopes, rockets, land rovers and so on. It is why we know other galaxies exist. Mission to Mars, and the moon-landing are nice, but they don't reveal as much information as our deep-penerating instruments. Why would interplanetary exploration be any different?

Yes, I chose "inflict" because when canals were discovered on Mars, there were lots of questions about how they came to be. At one point, in the early 1900s and late 1800s, people theorized there were other civilizations on Mars. Well, we all know what happened several decades later: "War of the Worlds". If people couldn't even refrain themselves from hitting the panic button despite modern technology; how is word-of-mouth or writing letters any better? Even nowadays, uncontacted tribes of Southeast Asia and the Amazons are surprisingly hostile to objects like airplanes and cruise ships. Furthermore, suggesting there might be other lifeforms outside of Earth always has had serious implications in regard to foreign policy, disease control and so on. Why would it be any different in a society without the same technology?

Regarding the snide comment about omnipotent beings, so, if one introduce the Bible to someone who is cut off from modern civilization, do they undergo an enlightenment with imparting information which enables them to adapt to modern life? It just seem absurd.

 

[Reba]

Wirelessly posted
Oh yay, they explained how the giver of life, the sun, central to everyone's lives regardless of religious affiliation, came to being and why there are sparky lights in the night skies in an overly simplistic vague manner. Impressive.

I don't know who the "they" are, and the Bible doesn't refer to the sun as central to everyone's lives.

God spoke them into existence. Why would it be necessary to complicate that?

While the Old Testament is much older, I only mentioned 2,000 years because the New Testament did have shady issues with astrology, which was closely tied to astromony during the days of the ancients.

"Shady issues." That says a lot of nothing. That must be the vagueness you are fond to mention.

However, it still doesn't touch on the topic of what's on other planets, even empty ones; even though they were well-known to the ancients. That's because the Book was designed for Man and his realm on Earth, not for what is beyond the scope of mankind.

According to the Bible, God put the celestial bodies (moons, planets, stars) into place for specific reasons for the people on earth to benefit from. Does it occur to you that the Bible doesn't mention other beings on the planets because there weren't any on the other planets?

Who are the "ancients?" No one is more "ancient" than God.

If that is not sufficient, the Bible doesn't really mention other sentient beings on our own planet: dolphins, whales, elephants and the great apes-- beings with self-recognization, empathy, kinship, their own moral codes and potential for complex communications. The Bible does handle mankind's relations to the animal kingdom; but not specific members of the the said kingdom. If that is not an indicator the scripture is only meant for Man to follow, then one might as well be talking to a wall.

Of course the Bible is from God to man, and it describes the nature of God, His relationship with man, and His plan for man. The Bible explains the creation and existence of animals, and man's relationship to them.

By exploring deep space, I means radio telementry, telescopes, rockets, land rovers and so on. It is why we know other galaxies exist. Mission to Mars, and the moon-landing are nice, but they don't reveal as much information as our deep-penerating instruments.

That's just a tip of the iceberg. Hardly a full exploration of time and space. God saw it all but man hasn't even begun to have a peek.

Why would interplanetary exploration be any different?

Different from what?

Yes, I chose "inflict" because when canals were discovered on Mars, there were lots of questions about how they came to be. At one point, in the early 1900s and late 1800s, people theorized there were other civilizations on Mars. Well, we all know what happened several decades later: "War of the Worlds". If people couldn't even refrain themselves from hitting the panic button despite modern technology; how is word-of-mouth or writing letters any better?

Despite modern technology? Maybe it's because of modern technology. Have you ever considered that?

Even nowadays, uncontacted tribes of Southeast Asia and the Amazons are surprisingly hostile to objects like airplanes and cruise ships.

Which proves what?

Furthermore, suggesting there might be other lifeforms outside of Earth always has had serious implications in regard to foreign policy, disease control and so on. Why would it be any different in a society without the same technology?

None of that negates what I posted.

Regarding the snide comment about omnipotent beings

You're not omnipotent nor are you omniscient. That's why you can't think through things the way God does. You can't see into eternity, or into men's souls, or the big picture, or the tiniest details of everything. That's why you wouldn't do things the way God does.

if one introduce the Bible to someone who is cut off from modern civilization, do they undergo an enlightenment with imparting information which enables them to adapt to modern life? It just seem absurd.

The Bible's purpose isn't to introduce people to "modern" life. It's to introduce them to the Giver of eternal life.

 

[DeafBadger]

I don't know if this exceeds forum rules. Please delete this immediately, if it does. And please let me know where the forum rules are located.

Before I graduated high school, I read the Christian Bible six times, front to back, because I couldn't hear sermons, so I read the Bible instead. Most Christians never read it once.

I also read it without the "aid" of those daily scripture readers that basically feed scripture to you piecemeal and tell you what it means, instead of having you read it in context and figure it out for yourself.

After high school, I became a "born again Christian". I studied the Bible intensely and I used a concordance to study the original words behind the translations. You learn a lot of interesting stuff doing this.

I also compared different translations of the Bible. After a while, you notice that some translations will translate passages in ways that change the meaning in crucial ways. If it all means the same thing, why the difference in meaning?

Some translations had extra passages that weren't present in other translations. Some even had extra books! Where did this come from? Why didn't other translations have them?

Using the concordance, I learned that the original words behind the translation could be translated in a variety of ways. Just like many words in English can have many meanings depending on grammar or cultural context, so did the original Hebrew, Aramic and Greek. There is so much that we no longer know about these original cultures that oftentimes, it is virtually impossible to know what exact context or meaning the author meant. Thus a perfect translation becomes impossible.

I found some passages that were obviously translated with extreme bias. By that I mean, that some passages were severely contorted to force the passage to fit the translator's doctrinal bias. I could not understand how in the world the translator translated THAT out of the original phrase.

There are also a lot of contradictions in the Bible. There are two creation stories in Genesis that do not sequentially match, for example.

The Bible can also be used to promote the most fearsome vision of eternal torment in Hell... or be used to promote the idea that everything and everyone will one day be reconciled to God, with no one and nothing left in Hell, that even Hell would cease to exist (this is called Universal Reconciliation). Passages in the Bible can be found to support both positions.

Finally, we're talking about a circular argument.

1. How do we know God exists?
2. Because the Bible says so.
3. Why should we believe the Bible?
4. Because God inspired or wrote it.
5. How do we know God exists?
6. Because the Bible says so...

And so on and on. We get nowhere with this. There is no hope of independent verification.

People are entitled to their belief. But religious belief and reason do not begin with the same foundation and thus tend to talk past the other.

I'm not a Christian anymore, obviously.

 

[Grummer]

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

then, where was God? he wouldnt just exist in middle of nothingness? "God" can't exist without her/himself, kinda like chicken or egg question here

 

[sallylou]

Wirelessly posted (droid)

It's elephants all the way down.

 

[Reba]

then, where was God? he wouldnt just exist in middle of nothingness? "God" can't exist without her/himself, kinda like chicken or egg question here

Yes, God could exist in the middle of nothingness. As a spirit, He's not dependent on the material world.

BTW, since you brought it up, the Bible does answer the question about the chicken or the egg.

The chicken came first. God created each living being in mature form, then commanded them to procreate. So, adult hen and rooster first, then came the eggs.

Genesis 1

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

 

[TWA]

His stance is not even a belief system. It's proven and verified with physics, biology, chemistry and mathematics all across the board. It is not even a matter of opinion.

The reason why it matters to him is because anti-intellectualism is literally killing the human race right now. Far too many lives are being lost to faith-healing, quantum medicine and old wives' tales.

THIS. Exactly. What she "believes" is categorical denial of scientific FACT. What I believe is the scientific process and rigorous skepticism of not only religious belief, but also of science itself. Where there is doubt, investigate. Where there is falsehood, dismiss. Where there is truth, accept--until superseded by yet undiscovered truths.

Science and spirituality/religion can be compatible if one is willing to accept reason and disallow blind faithfulness and willful ignorance. Unfortunately, these two seem to be prerequisites for most American religious institutions.

If humans had cast off this ridiculous, consciousness-stunting way of thinking two thousand years ago, we may have been on our way to traveling to the stars by now.

 

[SkullChick]

Wirelessly posted

absolutely I was sold after watching all of espiodes of ancient alien. you should watch it and also history channel about comparing angel and aliens there is a lot of similarities. I believe in alien existence and I dont believe god existed and that in ancient time people didnt have knowledge or extensive language to explain what they're seeing so they define it as god and angels when its actually aliens. by the way they DID mention alien in bible. thats all I'd say about god. The topic is alien not bible so discuss about alien please

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Oh... bloody hell!

"They", the people who transcribed the Bible. "Ancients," people before the medieval period with or without the knowledge of the Bible. Some of these people even pre-date the Old Testament ie. the Egyptians. "Shady issues" as in astrology plays a role in the Bible (for example the birth of Jesus), yet at the same time, practicing astrology is considered as incompatible or even blasphemous. Don't play stupid. You know better.

By "giver of life". Plants can't exist without the sun. Animals can't exist without plants. Humans can't exist without plants and animals. Why else almost every single creation story starts with sun/moon first?

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

THIS. Exactly. What she "believes" is categorical denial of scientific FACT. What I believe is the scientific process and rigorous skepticism of not only religious belief, but also of science itself. Where there is doubt, investigate. Where there is falsehood, dismiss. Where there is truth, accept--until superseded by yet undiscovered truths.

Science and spirituality/religion can be compatible if one is willing to accept reason and disallow blind faithfulness and willful ignorance. Unfortunately, these two seem to be prerequisites for most American religious institutions.

If humans had cast off this ridiculous, consciousness-stunting way of thinking two thousand years ago, we may have been on our way to traveling to the stars by now.

I am trying really hard not to quote Bertrand Russell.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

If humans had cast off this ridiculous, consciousness-stunting way of thinking two thousand years ago, we may have been on our way to traveling to the stars by now.

Sadly the ancient Egyptians were on their way to dislodging magical thinking, and so were the ancient Greeks. It is clearly shown in the codices and manuscripts as time goes on there were less and less rituals and more and more details on human anatomy, engineering and so on. Thales and the philosophers of Ionia were the first in the Western world to attempt to explain the natural world without invoking the supernatural.

So humans were already on their way to casting off that way of thinking until the conversion of Constantine the Great. After that, he started bringing down the banhammer on heresy. Unfortunately at the time, astrology and astronomy were considered as one and the same and took the backseat until the rise of secularism under the Dutch Empire offering people refugees from the Catholic-Protestant wars.

So the groundswork was already there, just it got suppressed.