Parents want hearing school to get state funding

[deafdyke]

Then she should know how profoundly different an oral deaf education is than a mainstream education. Just because someone uses the same language does not make the strategies, emphasis, and techniques the same. If it was the same there would be no such thing as a oral teacher of the deaf and there would be no need for their degrees.

faire-jour, there ARE mainstream oral deaf formal programs!!!
Mainstream formal programs aren't just limited to TC!
The parents are of the school of theory that thinks that private ALWAYS trumps public education.
AND the fact of the matter is that oralism has HUGE HUGE limitations.
Sure we don't have the first grade/kindergarten kids who can only say a handful of words any more. I'll give the oral programs that.....at least they are more willing to say " maybe your kid might be better served in an ASL program" to kids whose speech abilty isn't too good. BUT the thing that's driving oralism is that it assumes that ALL kids who are oral are going to end up like the AG Bell overacheivers. Not quite. Yes, things have changed in that kids are no longer SEVERELY or profoundly delayed....but they still have a ton of delays and issues......
Oh and you keep protesting that this is an oral kid and doesn't belong in an ASL program. There is NO reason why an oral kid cannot learn ASL!

 

[shel90]

Wirelessly posted



I agree, but should there be a cut off date? they can get services to age 3 but if they need it one day longer, too bad? the school should be serving kids on an individual basis and when they are ready they will be mainstreamed.

If the child cannot function academically in an oral-only setting, time for the child to be placed in a sign language program before more time is wasted and the child gets more and more delayed. It is a very very common problem with oral-only deaf children.

 

[deafdyke]

and shel, isn't it fairly common for dhh kids to do well in the mainstream until about 4th grade and then start having trouble? That's b/c many of them have OK basic speech/language skills.....but as stuff gets harder their language abilty can't keep up. Heck it's actually not too unusal for a kid to do well one on one, but use ASL 'terps in classroom/crowd situtions. I know it's not too unusual to see 'terps at AG Bad conferences for example.

Most of the deaf/hoh/low vision students will be transferred to the Florida School for the Deaf and Blind in St. Augustine, FL. That's 4 hours from here. Parents are not happy, but are accepting that this is in the child's best interest.

Exactly!!!!!
It is too bad that the kids will have to live away from their parents....BUT the School for the Deaf and Blind is pretty damn good. Even hoh kids go there and THRIVE!
My point is that kids should LOVE school and enjoy it. Very often that's not the case for mainstreamed dhh kids. Some of them really thrive..but even the academic and spoken language acheivers very often have MAJOR social emotional issues.
When's the last time you heard about a dhh mainstreamed kid having a girlfriend or a boyfriend or being popular in the mainstream? There are some yes....but most of the time we get sent to the back of the bus......

 

[A]

Yes, 4th grade is the age of reading to learn instead of learning to read


I think it is the same thing with communication and listening for the deaf. Children should be communicating to learn instead of learning to communicate

 

[jillio]

Well, if there are no placement services for the oral deaf within a reasonable area except for the private school, then I understand. If the area is big enough, then there should be a chunk of people wanting specific services from this area. I do consider oral deaf to need different services than "mainstreamed".

However, I see no indication whatsoever about no services for the oral deaf in that area. So I think FJ is making assumptions about there being no services within 50 miles while Jillio assumes that there are services next door. But they are STILL assumptions.

Considering where Clarke is.... I suspect that there are reasonable services that can be made for the deaf child nearby. I don't know why it has to be THIS or THAT. There's always room to please both sides somewhat.

My parents paid for me to go to a private school, but I took advantage of the services offered, so I had free speech therapy in a public school within my district.

I'm not making assumptions at all. The article clearly states what school the kids go to for kindergarten once they are finished with EI.

 

[jillio]

I am saying that you are assuming that there *are* services, when there is no evidence that there are. A public school is NOT the LRE for a deaf child until their language and academics are age appropriate, or at least close. That is why oral programs exist.

The article states that there are services available. It even names the district school that the kids attend after EI. Dept. of Ed has a list of schools that provide services to these students. That is why they are stating that to add Clarke is not necessary. They already contract with out of district schools to provide the services mandated by law.

 

[jillio]

Look for a program in which:

Children can maximize their auditory potential all day where they are expected to learn to listen and speak.

Spoken language is the only language used by children at all times.

The curriculum prepares children for mainstreaming.

Alexander Graham Bell Association for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing

What I was taught in the deaf ed teaching programs and in the field of teaching, the purpose of oral deaf ed is to prepare deaf children for mainstreaming.

Bingo. Which is why children are being mainstreamed at kindergarten age from oral only EI programs.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted

I think the parents have the right to ask for it to be amended, why wouldn't they? Clearly other private schools are allowed.

The Dept. of Ed has already stated why. It is in the article. Parents do not have the right to make decisions for the Dept. of Ed regarding which schools are contracted.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



The key word is prepare. if they are not yet prepared they continue to need a specialized education.

They do. If they are not prepared to enter a hearing preschool by the age of 3, EI services continue in specialized placement until they reach kindergarten age. At that point, EI services no longer apply and they must put the child in an available placement.

 

[faire_jour]

I'm not making assumptions at all. The article clearly states what school the kids go to for kindergarten once they are finished with EI.

Early intervention ends at age 3, Kidergarten begins at 5, what do the kids do in the inbetween.

 

[faire_jour]

They do. If they are not prepared to enter a hearing preschool by the age of 3, EI services continue in specialized placement until they reach kindergarten age. At that point, EI services no longer apply and they must put the child in an available placement.

EI ends at 36 months.

Early Intervention (Part C of IDEA) - Articles, Cases, Resources, Info & Support from Wrightslaw

"Your team (including parents) should start preparing the child for transition (if applicable) into Part B services around the age of 30-32 months (and no less than 3 months prior to the child's 3rd birthday). "

http://www.nichcy.org/Laws/IDEA/pages/PartC.aspx

"Early intervention services for infants and toddlers with disabilities (birth-3) have been a part of IDEA since 1986. This section of the law is commonly known as Part C of IDEA"

http://idea.ed.gov/explore/view/p/,root,statute,I,C,632,

"Infant or toddler with a disability.--The term `infant or toddler with a disability'--
(A) means an individual under 3 years of age "

http://www.nectac.org/partc/partc.asp?CFID=1554632&CFTOKEN=51145308#overview

"The Program for Infants and Toddlers with Disabilities (Part C of IDEA) is a federal grant program that assists states in operating a comprehensive statewide program of early intervention services for infants and toddlers with disabilities, ages birth through age 2 years,"



Part C only goes to 3, and then the child must transition to Part B (school district) with an IEP

 

[Banjo]

Early intervention ends at age 3, Kidergarten begins at 5, what do the kids do in the inbetween.

Don't you have Jr Kindergarten?

 

[faire_jour]

Don't you have Jr Kindergarten?

Yes, and it is under the school district. It is not early intervention. A child ages out of EI at 36 months, and if they are not ready for the mainstream, they will need a special placement.

 

[KristinaB]

Early intervention ends at age 3, Kidergarten begins at 5, what do the kids do in the inbetween.

Preschool, My son went to one at a church (until the sump pump went out in the basement classroom.) Both kids went to Head Start as well. from ages 2-5. Head Start will provide for Interpreters and whatever you need.

 

[WeeBeastie]

Early intervention ends at age 3, Kidergarten begins at 5, what do the kids do in the inbetween.

The move in to the school system's Early Childhood program, usually a self contained DHH program.

In some states, there is the option of the extended IFSP where they can remain in the EI program until Kindergarten.

 

[KristinaB]

The move in to the school system's Early Childhood program, usually a self contained DHH program.

In some states, there is the option of the extended IFSP where they can remain in the EI program until Kindergarten.

Right - even the small rural school where we were, my daughter attended ECSE (Early Childhood Special Education) Preschool and had Speech Therapy sessions 3 times a week for a 1/2 hour each session.. She also attended 4 hours weekly at a private office in town paid for by social security.

 

[faire_jour]

The move in to the school system's Early Childhood program, usually a self contained DHH program.

In some states, there is the option of the extended IFSP where they can remain in the EI program until Kindergarten.

Right, and if there is not an appropriate program available for the child, that is when they would have to pay for th private program.

(I have never heard of the second part, can you direct me toward some information about it?)

 

[WeeBeastie]

In most areas there are no private options. You go to the public school and make the system work for you. not everyone has half a dozen deaf school options.

Extended IFSP info:

A new provision within Part C that may significantly impact when children transition from Part C is called the Part C Option - Flexibility To Serve Children 3 Years of Age Until Entrance Into Elementary School. This is an optional statewide system developed and implemented by the lead agency and the State Educational Agency available to children with disabilities who are eligible for services under Section 619 and previously received services under Part C. If a state adopts this policy, parents may choose the continuation of early intervention services (which shall include an educational component that promotes school readiness and incorporates preliteracy, language and numeracy skills) until state eligibility for kindergarten.

originating link

Maryland Public Schools (pdf)

 

[Daredevel7]

I'm not making assumptions at all. The article clearly states what school the kids go to for kindergarten once they are finished with EI.

Okay let me rephrase. Your assumption is that the services for an oral deaf child is an oral only education which would be mainstreamed anyway. And FJ assumes that oral deaf services are different from mainstreamed schools.

I don't want to get caught up on the topic of "what services are right for the child?" because that's been discussed a million times. However, the original topic seems to be new and I'm more interested in that one.

Here is an analogy: There is a genius child. This child is bored in a public school in his grade because he is way above his peers. That school has offered him special sessions for more advanced education (private tutoring) for free. But there is a school nearby that is private and is geared for gifted children. The parents would rather have that because he can socially develop with children his age who are just like him. Even though the education is generally the same.

Now, should the government pay for him to go to that private school?

 

[Banjo]

Here is an analogy: There is a genius child. This child is bored in a public school in his grade because he is way above his peers. That school has offered him special sessions for more advanced education (private tutoring) for free. But there is a school nearby that is private and is geared for gifted children. The parents would rather have that because he can socially develop with children his age who are just like him. Even though the education is generally the same.

Now, should the government pay for him to go to that private school?

No.