Parent and HA/CI issues

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Dr Strangelove's
Blame it on doctors. When parents who are hearing, know nothing about deaf culture, have never met a deaf person in their whole life, and they have a deaf child, more often than not, doctors tell them about the CI option, and not about deaf education, deaf schools, or sign language. Insurance companies paying for the bill does not help either.
I personally have a CI. It was put in when I was 9. I thought it'd help me become hearing, I was wrong, I had to learn all over again like a baby, and I gave it up when I was 14, I was in a deaf school where everyone is screaming almost all the time, and it just was not pratical. I lobbied to get it taken out, but apparently, Insurance companies won't pay for that, they will only pay for things that help my health get better. It mystifies me that a CI betters a deaf person's health.
I still have it set in my mind to have the CI taken out someday, when I am able to put up the damned cash. I agree, there should be a law aganist parents putting CIs on their kids, it is almost manipulation. When and if a kid becomes 18 and still wants one, that is fine, do what you wish.

SEE THIS!!! you ignored the fact that Deaf children were abused all along. I know the truth that there are many deaf children were frustrated / angry about it.. I dont need your BS anymore..

AudioFuzzy doesnt have CI or use ASL so what the heck she is talking about.. what a big :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: !!!!!

I want to say thank you for your honest with me, Dr Strangelove. ;) It s proven here that I m more listening to those Failure CIers more than CIers because they are tooo much denials.. They do not hear everything like the rest of us who wore HA. I dont need CI to prove you or their approval by hearing people s sake. Scoffs! It s totally waste of my time, energy, and money by insurance. I dont need to hear with all that nasty / negativity attitude from you CIers and audism people who have too much degradation toward Deaf children s abilities and American Sign Language that works very well.

Where is Deaf human? Oh yeah, they brushed us off as usual. .They are hiding something that they dont want you to know the truth as far as I have witnessed in my own eyes. TOOOO MUCH DENIALS that I am seeing it all the time.. What a pity! They dont feel good about themselves for/by being deaf as well.

Have a good day! ;)
Sweetmind
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Sweetmind said:
Dr Strangelove's

SEE THIS!!! you ignored the fact that Deaf children were abused all along. I know the truth that there are many deaf children were frustrated / angry about it.. I dont need your BS anymore..

AudioFuzzy doesnt have CI or use ASL so what the heck she is talking about.. what a big :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: !!!!!

I want to say thank you for your honest with me, Dr Strangelove. ;) It s proven here that I m more listening to those Failure CIers more than CIers because they are tooo much denials.. They do not hear everything like the rest of us who wore HA. I dont need CI to prove you or their approval by hearing people s sake. Scoffs! It s totally waste of my time, energy, and money by insurance. I dont need to hear with all that nasty / negativity attitude from you CIers and audism people who have too much degradation toward Deaf children s abilities and American Sign Language that works very well.

Where is Deaf human? Oh yeah, they brushed us off as usual. .They are hiding something that they dont want you to know the truth as far as I have witnessed in my own eyes. TOOOO MUCH DENIALS that I am seeing it all the time.. What a pity! They dont feel good about themselves for/by being deaf as well.

Have a good day! ;)
Sweetmind
__________________

Don't insult to AudioFuzzy or she will fuzzy on you. :eek:

Ok... ok... ok... there's guestion about HA...
Figure_01.gif

How can works as powerful as CI does? You can fix it?

Neonpp.gif

How's looks hot? Explain about how is work?

home.jpg

How about kids that can learn to use oral language? Explain...
 
HOw can I insult after all she lied about ASL that she thinks she know it all? Thats her big fibbing about ASL.. Thats destroy our true language that she put all those negative about it after all she doesnt know NOTHING about ASL or CI.. Scoffs! She doesnt know what she is getting into as usual.

I have no respect for anybody who degraded about natural deaf and ASL. If you mind I will not allow anyone to lie about us Deaf people and Deaf Community after all they dont mingle with us.. Scoffs!

I spoke the truth all along after all they treated very nasty disrespectful toward me and Deaf people. They dont want me to stand up and speak it out the truth that is a big problem. YOu should tell them off not us if you mind.

Thats factual she doenst know NOTHING about ASL and CI. Period!

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
HOw can I insult after all she lied about ASL that she thinks she know it all? Thats her big fibbing about ASL.. Thats destroy our true language that she put all those negative about it after all she doesnt know NOTHING about asl or CI.. Scoffs!

I have no respect for anybody who degraded about natural deaf and ASL. If you mind I will not allow anyone to lie about us Deaf people and Deaf Community after all they dont mingle with us.. Scoffs!

I spoke the truth all along after all they treated me and Deaf people very nasty disrespectful. They dont want me to stand up and speak it out the truth that is a big problem. YOu should tell them off not us if you mind.

You need explain that how's HA works for kids and learn to use ASL.

Well, about 99% of students at CSDR and CSDF don't have CI.
 
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~lpetitto/langAc.html

No need to have device right away if you mind.

How Children Acquire Language:
A New Answer

How do babies acquire language? What do babies know when they start to speak? Prevailing views about the biological foundations of language assume that very early language acquisition is tied to speech. Universal regularities in the timing and structure of infantsÕ vocal babbling and first words have been taken as evidence that the brain must be attuned to perceiving and producing spoken language, per se, in early life. To be sure, a frequent answer to the question "how does early human language acquisition begin?" is that it is the result of the development of the neuroanatomical and neurophysiological mechanisms involved in the perception and the production of speech. Put another way, the view of human biology at work here is that evolution has rendered the human brain neurologically "hardwired" for speech. Over the past 20 years I have been investigating these issues through intensive studies of hearing babies acquiring spoken languages (English or French) and deaf babies acquiring signed languages (American Sign Language, ASL, or Langue des Signes Québécoise, LSQ), ages birth through 48 months. The most striking finding to emerge from these studies is that speech, per se, is not critical to the human language acquisition process. Irrespective of whether an infant is exposed to spoken or signed languages, both are acquired on an identical maturational time course. Further, hearing infants acquiring spoken languages and deaf infants acquiring signed languages exhibit the same linguistic, semantic, and conceptual complexity, stage for stage. If sound and speech are critical to normal language acquisition how then can we account for these persistent findings? In order for signed and spoken languages to be acquired in the same manner, human infants at birth may not be sensitive to sound or speech, per se. Instead, infants may be sensitive to what is encoded within this modality. I propose that humans are born with a sensitivity to particular distributional, rhythmical, and temporal patterns unique to aspects of natural language structure, along specific physical dimensions (temporal "sing-song" prosodic patterning and bite-sized, maximally-contrasting syllable segments--both levels of language organization that are found in spoken and signed languages). If the input language contains these specific patterns, infants will then attempt to produce them--regardless of whether they encounter these patterns on the hands or on the tongue. One novel implication here is that language modality, be it spoken or signed, is highly plastic and may be neurologically set after birth. Put another way, babies are born with a propensity to acquire language. Whether the language comes as speech, sign language, or some other way of having language, it does not appear to matter to the brain. As long as the language input has the above crucial properties, human babies will attempt to acquire it.

How Children Acquire Language:
A New Answer

Deaf children exposed to signed languages from birth, acquire these languages on an identical maturational time course as hearing children acquire spoken languages. Deaf children acquiring signed languages do so without any modification, loss, or delay to the timing, content, and maturational course associated with reaching all linguistic milestones observed in spoken language. Beginning at birth, and continuing through age 3 and beyond, speaking and signing children exhibit the identical stages of language acquisition. These include the (a) "syllabic babbling stage" (7-10 months) as well as other developments in babbling, including "variegated babbling," ages 10-12 months, and "jargon babbling," ages 12 months and beyond, (b) "first word stage" (11-14 months), (c)"first two-word stage" (16-22 months), and the grammatical and semantic developments beyond. Surprising similarities are also observed in deaf and hearing children's timing onset and use of gestures as well. Signing and speaking children produce strikingly similar pre-linguistic (9-12 months) and post-linguistic communicative gestures (12-48 months). Deaf babies do not produce more gestures, even though linguistic "signs" (identical to the "word") and communicative gestures reside in the same modality, and even though some signs and gestures are formationally and referentially similar. Instead, deaf children consistently differentiate linguistic signs from communicative gestures throughout development, using each in the same ways observed in hearing children. Throughout development, signing and speaking children also exhibit remarkably similar complexity in their utterances.

The Discovery of Manual Babbling

In trying to understand the biological roots of human language, researchers have naturally tried to find its "beginning." The regular onset of vocal babbling--the bababa and other repetitive, syllabic sounds that infants produce--has led researchers to conclude that babbling represents the "beginning" of human language acquisition, albeit, language production. Babbling--and thus early language acquisition in our species--is said to be determined by the development of the anatomy of the vocal tract and the neuroanatomical and neurophysiological mechanisms subserving the motor control of speech production. In the course of conducting research on deaf infants' transition from pre-linguistic gesturing to first signs (9-12 months), I first discovered a class of hand activity that contained linguistically-relevant units that was different from all other hand activity at this time. To my surprise, these deaf infants appeared to be babbling with their hands. Additional studies were undertaken to understand the basis of this extraordinary behavior. The findings that we reported in Science revealed unambiguously a discrete class of hand activity in deaf infants that was structurally identical to vocal babbling observed in hearing infants. Like vocal babbling, manual babbling was found to possess (i) a restricted set of phonetic units (unique to signed languages), (ii) syllabic organization, and it was (iii) used without meaning or reference. This hand activity was also wholly distinct from all infants' rhythmic hand activity, be they deaf or hearing. Even its structure was wholly distinct from all infants' communicative gestures. The discovery of babbling in another modality was exciting. It confirmed the hypothesis that babbling represents a distinct and critical stage in the ontogeny of human language. However, it disconfirmed existing hypotheses about why babbling occurs: It disconfirmed the view that babbling is neurologically determined by the maturation of the speech-production mechanisms, per se. Specifically, it was thought that the "baba," CV (consonant-vowel) alternation that infants produce is determined by the rhythmic opening and closing of the mandible (jaw). But manual babbling is also produced with rhythmic, syllabic (open-close, hold-movement hand) alternations. How can we explain this? Where does this common structure come from? A new series of studies is currently under way to examine the physical basis of this extraordinary phenomenon (see Optotrak studies below, "The Physics of Manual Babbling").

The Physics of Manual Babbling

Where does the common structures in vocal and manual babbling come from? Is manual babbling really different from all babies' other rhythmic hand movements? I have hypothesized that the common structure observed across manual and vocal babbling is due to the existence of "supra-modal constraints," with the rhythmic oscillations of babbling being key. Both manual and vocal babbling, alone, are produced in rhthymic, temporally-oscillating bundles, which I have hypothesized may, in turn, be yoked to constraints on the infant's perceptual systems. The next challenge then was to figure out how to study it. I recently conducted a new study of manual babbling with my colleague at McGill, David Ostry, and students Siobhan Holowka de Belle, Lauren Sergio, and Bronna Levy. We used the powerful "OPTOTRAK Computer Visual-Graphic Analysis System. The precise physical properties of all infants' manual activity were measured by placing tiny Light-Emitting Diodes (LEDs) on infants' hands and feet. The LEDs transmitted light impulses to cameras that, in turn, sent signals into the OPTOTRAK system. This information was then fed into the computer software that we designed to provide us with information analogous to the spectrographic representation of speech, but adapted here for the spectrographic representation of sign. Thus, for the first time, we were able to obtain recordings of the timing, rate, path movement, velocity, and "fo" for all infant hand activity, and to obtain sophisticated, 3-D graphic displays of each. This work is presently in press in Nature (2001).

Bilingualism and Early Brain Development

I. Bi-lingual hearing babies acquiring a signed and a spoken language from birth, and bi-lingual hearing babies acquiring two different signed languages from birth (and no speech): Presently, an additional test of the hypothesis that speech is critical to the acquisition process is under investigation in my laboratory, testing two critical populations: (1) "bi-lingual" hearing infants who are being exposed to signed and spoken languages (i.e., one parent signs, one parent speaks), and (2) "bi-lingual" hearing infants who are being exposed to two distinct signed languages (ASL and LSQ), but who are receiving no spoken language input whatsoever. With regard to group (1), bi-lingual, signing/speaking children achieve all linguistic milestones in both modalities at the same time (e.g., vocal and manual babbling, first words and first signs, first grammatical combinations of words and signs, respectively, and beyond; see Petitto et al., in press, Journal of Child Language). Further, infants in both groups (1) and (2) exhibit their linguistic and semantic-conceptual milestones on the identical overall maturational time course as seen in monolingual children (Petitto, 2000), with their specific developmental patterns being identical to that which has been observed in the typical case of bi-lingual hearing babies exposed to two spoken languages (e.g., spoken French and spoken English; more below).

II. Discovery of common timing in bi-lingual and mono-lingual children: In the course of conducting the above research on the maturational timing mechanisms in hearing babies acquiring signed & spoken languages from their bilingual parents, we discovered that our young hearing controls--bilingual children learning spoken French and English--were achieving all major linguistic milestones in each of their respective languages on the identical time course, and on the identical time course as monolinguals (Petitto, 1994, 1997). Significance: Prevailing research on very young bilinguals, however, had reported that bilingual babies under 20 months exhibted language delay and confusion relative to monolingual babies because they ostensibly had a single, fused representation of their two native languages, which they were only able to sort out over the first three years of life. By contrast, my findings suggested that very young bilingual babies have highly distinct representations of their two native languages quite probably from birth. I have further advanced an hypothesis stating what mechanisms in the human brain may enable the very young baby to differentiate between its two native languages from birth, and I have offered the field an explanation as to why the perception of "delay" and "confusion" in young bilinguals has prevailed, both among scientists and the public (see Petitto et al., 2001, Journal of Child Language).


Give Deaf children a chance to be themselves as is. NO need to pressure on those kids to wear devices all the time. Period!

If your Deaf Children cannot hear at all then you live with it .. Thats the reason for it. You need to change your own attitude and learn how to adapt with a Deaf child. That 's not hard to do. Period!

Deaf children are required to take Speech classes that would be good enough to use our oral survival kit. So What is your point? you cannot expected us to speak our Deaf voices that they will understand us 100 percent as always. NO oral rules is the winner anyways.

I have to repeat this because many of you are denied that ASL is working for both Hearing and Deaf children from the earliest age like I did with my hearing children.
__________________
 
Sweetmind said:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~lpetitto/langAc.html

No need to have device right away if you mind.




Give Deaf children a chance to be themselves as is. NO need to pressure on those kids to wear devices all the time. Period!

If your Deaf Children cannot hear at all then you live with it .. Thats the reason for it. You need to change your own attitude and learn how to adapt with a Deaf child. That 's not hard to do. Period!

Deaf children are required to take Speech classes that would be good enough to use our oral survival kit. So What is your point? you cannot expected us to speak our Deaf voices that they will understand us 100 percent as always. NO oral rules is the winner anyways.

I have to repeat this because many of you are denied that ASL is working for both Hearing and Deaf children from the earliest age like I did with my hearing children.
__________________

Great Job... Sweetmind :)

You are supposed to claim the complaint form to FDA and they can change their CI laws for cannot get CI until after 18th Birthday.
 
i like to say this again and again.

It is one thing to allow a person to choose to use an auditory device, but i see that it is unfair to decide for any individual to have a surgery that changes their physical properties. Once a person is mature enough to decide to have a CI surgically implanted, the decision should be made. To have a parent/guardian etc.choose this for a child is ridiculous. Why should it be ok to force a person into a surgery that they may rely on for their entire life.

Once a child has become accustomed to these devices it is something that they expect to have for the rest of their life. If the device fails or does not continue to work in the same way for their entire life, then they no longer can use what they have been expected to rely on. This is totally unfair to any child or adult. If they have the choice to decide whether to use an auditory device or not then they can make that decision for themselves. It is wrong to force anyone to depend on something when naturally they are not going to have that. Children cannot make that decision. They should have the choice to decide on adapting their physical properties on their own. This should not take place unless they have been fully educated on ALL of the possibilities...positive and negative.

If a child relies on the auditory device and then it suddenly isn’t working anymore, then it is something that they have no choice but to have taken from them. These surgeries are not inexpensive. It takes money to maintain these devices and not all people are able to keep up with this. What happens when a child decides that they do not want to utilize this technology?

It is wrong to force a person to rely on something each day, when naturally they may be better off without a device being implanted into their bodies. Insurance does not cover a CI removal. If a person chooses that route then more power to them,but it is not an issue that should be decided by a person that will not have to live with it. The person that is getting a surgery of this type or any other surgery should be allowed to choose for themselves. It is something that will have impact, whether positive or negative, a person for the rest of their life.

By forcing an individual into a life altering procedure it is the same as saying you are not “good” enough the way that you were born. You must change physically for you to be accepted by the real world. Is this really the impression we want to make on deaf children.

It is a huge put down to deaf childrens true identity. People must have a choice, it is only fair! We should appreciate the differences in all people. If we were all the same, then the world would be a very boring place.

Therefore we have the right to maintain the status we were born with...people need to learn to accept that. Any adaptation that needs to be made should be made within the faultfinders, not the children. Acceptance is KEY! Need I say more?

Seeing as how there are more cons than pros to getting a CI, ( as such stated in other topics), It is more responsible to NOT implant a child. You dont need to hear to be alive. And if a d/Deaf child is not good enough for you then you need to reconsider your morals and prejudices. Like it, love it, or leave it alone.

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
i like to say this again and again.



Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind

It is one thing to allow a person to choose to use an auditory device, but i see that it is unfair to decide for any individual to have a surgery that changes their physical properties. Once a person is mature enough to decide to have a CI surgically implanted, the decision should be made. To have a parent/guardian etc.choose this for a child is ridiculous. Why should it be ok to force a person into a surgery that they may rely on for their entire life.

Yea, I agree with it... My parent forced me to got CI. :(
 
That is a real sad you have to deal with that trophy plaque inside your head that Doctor refused to remove it unless your health is not a great shape. I disagree with this..

I am very considered that is a Child Abuse all along. Sighs!

I have seen CI deaf child doesnt say too much that compares those Deaf children 's abilities. I love to challenge with those Deaf children who are very brilliant and know what they are talking about. It s fun to chat with them. They are being smart aleck in a way as far as I laughed so hard with them all along ;)

Thanks! Trippla for your being honest with me.

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
You are supposed to claim the complaint form to FDA and they can change their CI laws for cannot get CI until after 18th Birthday.

Dont you worry about me and my outpoken as usual. I have done with few letters that I wont say who. ;)


I dont sit my arse and dont do nothing about it. ;)

Thanks! and Have a wonderful day! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
Dont you worry about me and my outpoken as usual. I have done with few letters that I wont say who. ;)


I dont sit my arse and dont do nothing about it. ;)

I don't... You are complain about CI then claim the complaint form to FDA
 
ButterflyGirl said:
Didn't you notice that I edited my post before you posted this?
Sorry Butterfly, no I didn't. That happens sometimes if you are editing your post while I am creating mine.
 
gnulinuxman said:
How could a CI be the only hope for a deaf child? :dunno:
What I mean is that there is no chance for HA's to work. No residual hearing. Profoundly deaf and the only hope for hearing is with a CI. And even then, there are no guarantees.
 
Deaf children exposed to signed languages from birth, acquire these languages on an identical maturational time course as hearing children acquire spoken languages

A child, deaf or hearing will only be proficient in language if the language model is accurate. Many role models for deaf childre are not clear and concise representations of ASL. Expecting hearing parents to be accurate ASL langauge models places deaf children at a disadvantage. Parents are again the best language model for the family language. Once again... family language can and is learned via cueing.
 
I personally have a CI. It was put in when I was 9. I thought it'd help me become hearing, I was wrong,

You were implanted at the age of nine?

then you are in the group that receive LESS benefits from CI when it comes to understand speech.

You were implanted TOO LATE.


You hear sound but you have problem understanding them - and yes at this age you have to RE-LEARN how to hear!!!



Sweetmind buy yourself glasses:

I AM PRO-ASL



Fuzzy
 
Thanks Fuzzy! Being OK with oralism or implantation, DOES NOT MEAN that you're anti-ASL or Deaf culture. Virtually EVERYONE who posts here is pro-"whole stocked communication toolbox" Sweetmind, MANY of us understand the frustration that you have with pure oralism.....It IS frustrating, and boring and limiting. I grew up without ASL, and I'll never forget being made fun of b/c I talk funny (like some hearies think I'm MR b/c of how my voice sounds) But, isn't it better to equipt the kid with ALL the tools possible, rather then only giving them speech skills, ASL skills or Cued Speech skills?
 
Audiofuzzy said:
You were implanted at the age of nine?

then you are in the group that receive LESS benefits from CI when it comes to understand speech.

You were implanted TOO LATE.


You hear sound but you have problem understanding them - and yes at this age you have to RE-LEARN how to hear!!!



Sweetmind buy yourself glasses:

I AM PRO-ASL



Fuzzy

It supposed to said...
Sweetmind buy yourself glasses and hearing aids:

I AM PRO-ASL
 
Audiofuzzy said:
You were implanted at the age of nine?

then you are in the group that receive LESS benefits from CI when it comes to understand speech.

You were implanted TOO LATE.


You hear sound but you have problem understanding them - and yes at this age you have to RE-LEARN how to hear!!!



Sweetmind buy yourself glasses:

I AM PRO-ASL



Fuzzy


Fuzzy,
You need to STOP bashing Sweetmind.. You are no better than her... What more you are ashamed of yourself being deaf... wearing two hearing aids.. no fluent ASL... You act as if you are ashamed of yourself being deaf... therefore you dont need to come here and talk against Sweetmind..

Thanks!!
SxyPorkie
 
Sweetmind you hardly ever responded to my replies to you - and I know why- because your accusations against me are false. And you NEVER responded to my many explanations concerning my hearing loss, ASL, CI and other.

Whenever you accuse me of something like here:

HOw can I insult after all she lied about ASL that she thinks she know it all? Thats her big fibbing about ASL..

and I ask you SHOW ME THE PROOF - and you never DO,
WHY? because you DON'T HAVE ANY!!

I didn't lie about anything. So stop confusing the rest of the people here about ME, please.



Fuzzy
 
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