Oregon community college shooting, multiple casualties

[Reba]

Since some of her friends have said that she too suffered from some mental health issues as well as diagnosed brain lesions, she might not of passed a screening process if one was in place.

1. "Her friends have said" is not a professional diagnosis.

2. "Mental health issues" and "brain lesions"--exactly how do each of those impact safe gun ownership? Does anyone know what those "issues" were? Do we know what the brain lesions caused? If she indeed actually had these things.

3. She "might not of passed" so that's still not a guarantee.

 

[Reba]

Maybe everyone should have to have a wellness check. We could make one manditory once a year Just to keep dangerouse people off the streets. While we're at it if we're going to search peoples brains why don't don't we search their houses to. That way we can make sure they're not doing anything bad.

That's right. Why wait until dangerous people apply for a gun? Some violent crazy people might not ever apply for a gun, so they can keep going their merry ways.

Yeah, we all need the thought police to give us wellness checks. (Who's checking the checkers? )

 

[seb]

That's right. Why wait until dangerous people apply for a gun? Some violent crazy people might not ever apply for a gun, so they can keep going their merry ways.

Yeah, we all need the thought police to give us wellness checks. (Who's checking the checkers? )

Yes, I think it's a much better idea to let everyone and anyone who wants to own a gun have one. Never mind that some of these people aren't mentally stable and will possibly use the weapon purchased to kill innocent people at Schools, movie theaters, shopping malls, churches, etc. We can only hope that someone is nearby who is "packing enough heat" to stop them before they can kill anyone! So far it hasn't worked to well. Since 1986, there have been 533 innocent people killed and 489 wounded in these attacks. Fortunately the gun enthusiasts rights haven't been infringed upon, however, we can't say the same thing about these 1,000+ victims; their life has either been taken or permanently changed by a nut or madman with a gun!

Another approach is to change all of our schools, churches, shopping malls, places of work, etc. into prison like settings with walls with razor wire, one or two entry points with metal detectors and armed guards to keep shooters at the gates and the people inside safe.

 

[Reba]

Yes, I think it's a much better idea to let everyone and anyone who wants to own a gun have one. Never mind that some of these people aren't mentally stable and will possibly use the weapon purchased to kill innocent people at Schools, movie theaters, shopping malls, churches, etc. We can only hope that someone is nearby who is "packing enough heat" to stop them before they can kill anyone! So far it hasn't worked to well. Since 1986, there have been 533 innocent people killed and 489 wounded in these attacks. Fortunately the gun enthusiasts rights haven't been infringed upon, however, we can't say the same thing about these 1,000+ victims; their life has either been taken or permanently changed by a nut or madman with a gun!

You're still working with the assumption that there is such a test, and that it would accurately detect potential killers.

If these people are that dangerous, why are they even allowed to be out loose in society?

Not all mass killers are insane in the legal or classical sense. A psychological test won't detect them.

As long as we have so-called "gun-free zones" (only free of legal guns), we will have sitting ducks to any attackers, crazed or not.

Another approach is to change all of our schools, churches, shopping malls, places of work, etc. into prison like settings with walls with razor wire, one or two entry points with metal detectors and armed guards to keep shooters at the gates and the people inside safe.

There's not enough money or trained manpower available for that to happen, even if it were desired.

 

[diehardbiker]

Another approach is to change all of our schools, churches, shopping malls, places of work, etc. into prison like settings with walls with razor wire, one or two entry points with metal detectors and armed guards to keep shooters at the gates and the people inside safe.

Aren't you kidding? The cost won't be cheap, and don't forget how David Sweat and Matt Richard got out of heavily guarded prison back in summer time.

No matter how hard you want security to go, there will always be crack or two, and criminals tend to be a step or two ahead from the rest of everybody.

Don't you have other concerns that needs to be addressed? Your too worried about one area that got less than 1% of all causes of death, your more likely to get killed something else than school shooting EVEN though your teacher. What if you might have fatal disease in future which has greater chance of death than school shooting and all the money spent on school shooting than research for cures of these fatal disease?

Hope you wake up, and be more realistic... Come back from the Fantasy island would ya?

 

[diehardbiker]

1. "Her friends have said" is not a professional diagnosis.

2. "Mental health issues" and "brain lesions"--exactly how do each of those impact safe gun ownership? Does anyone know what those "issues" were? Do we know what the brain lesions caused? If she indeed actually had these things.

3. She "might not of passed" so that's still not a guarantee.

Yeah, there are greater chances that this person won't even bother going though background check, instead find local gangs (Its everywhere and epidemic) and buy guns from there. The likely reason why they won't want go though background is because they are afraid it will trigger alarm and get attention from authorities that lead them to watch that potential shooter. This is precisely why background check will never work regardless.

Seb, if you don't understand what I am saying. Okay here is good example, John Doe had a mental illness and has desire to go out and have mass shooting, John Doe knew if he wants to get gun, the best way is to avoid background check so that nobody knows he wanted to commit mass shooting, he would look somewhere around the town, good chance John Doe will find a illegal gun dealer, bought bunch of firearms... Guess what? That illegal gun dealer failed to report, did nothing but collect profit. BAM! there is headline Another Mass shooting at ACME High School. So, Seb, how can you solve this problem? That is the problem you seems to fail gasp the concept why gun control will not prevent another massacres. Don't forget there are too many silent potential mass shooters out there and there is no way we can detect until they commit. So, how can we lessen the risk? Increase awareness and allowed armed personnel around, abolish the gun ban policy. Of course, it will not stop anybody but the percentage of shooting occurrence will decrease over time.

Seb, have you ever heard of any mass shooting at gun shows? Why it never happened? Yes, there have been accidental firearm discharges in the past, these accidental discharge does not count as committing such crime.

 

[seb]

Seb, if you don't understand what I am saying. Okay here is good example, John Doe had a mental illness and has desire to go out and have mass shooting, John Doe knew if he wants to get gun, the best way is to avoid background check so that nobody knows he wanted to commit mass shooting, he would look somewhere around the town, good chance John Doe will find a illegal gun dealer, bought bunch of firearms... Guess what? That illegal gun dealer failed to report, did nothing but collect profit. BAM! there is headline Another Mass shooting at ACME High School. So, Seb, how can you solve this problem? That is the problem you seems to fail gasp the concept why gun control will not prevent another massacres. Don't forget there are too many silent potential mass shooters out there and there is no way we can detect until they commit. So, how can we lessen the risk? Increase awareness and allowed armed personnel around, abolish the gun ban policy. Of course, it will not stop anybody but the percentage of shooting occurrence will decrease over time.

Seb, have you ever heard of any mass shooting at gun shows? Why it never happened? Yes, there have been accidental firearm discharges in the past, these accidental discharge does not count as committing such crime.

Your basing your example on the assumption that these people who are going out or want to go out on a killing spree are rational and able to think logically and to a large extent they are not. Most of these killers have also been social misfits and have a hard time carrying on a conversation with their own family members let alone an illegal gun dealer.

 

[seb]

Aren't you kidding? The cost won't be cheap, and don't forget how David Sweat and Matt Richard got out of heavily guarded prison back in summer time.

No matter how hard you want security to go, there will always be crack or two, and criminals tend to be a step or two ahead from the rest of everybody.

Don't you have other concerns that needs to be addressed? Your too worried about one area that got less than 1% of all causes of death, your more likely to get killed something else than school shooting EVEN though your teacher. What if you might have fatal disease in future which has greater chance of death than school shooting and all the money spent on school shooting than research for cures of these fatal disease?

Hope you wake up, and be more realistic... Come back from the Fantasy island would ya?

Exactly, and do you or I want to live like that? No. As to the prisoners who escaped from the NY prison, there you go again thinking these people are thinking rationally. Never mind it would take them days or weeks to tunnel into someplace that they want to shoot up.

We aren't talking about criminals in the true sense of the word. These people who carry out these crimes do so because they are crazy or something sets them off and they do it on the spur of the moment.

Leave it to a gun enthusiast to say the killing and wounding of over 1,000 innocent people in just the United States due to these mass murders is basically a statistically insignificant number. Do you think the families of these victims think of it that way?

 

[jonnyghost]

Yes, I think it's a much better idea to let everyone and anyone who wants to own a gun have one. Never mind that some of these people aren't mentally stable and will possibly use the weapon purchased to kill innocent people at Schools, movie theaters, shopping malls, churches, etc. We can only hope that someone is nearby who is "packing enough heat" to stop them before they can kill anyone! So far it hasn't worked to well. Since 1986, there have been 533 innocent people killed and 489 wounded in these attacks. Fortunately the gun enthusiasts rights haven't been infringed upon, however, we can't say the same thing about these 1,000+ victims; their life has either been taken or permanently changed by a nut or madman with a gun!

Another approach is to change all of our schools, churches, shopping malls, places of work, etc. into prison like settings with walls with razor wire, one or two entry points with metal detectors and armed guards to keep shooters at the gates and the people inside safe.

No one suggested turning schools into prisons. That was your sarcasm. You can harden a target without turning it into a jail.

Making people criminals for what they may do in the future is not an option. Otherwise where do you stop? In the end we would all be criminals as we are all capable.

 

[jonnyghost]

I'll assume you're ignoring my question about the study. The answer is 6. Only 6 where diagnosed with ASD The rest where speculation by the auther.

I will point out that many of the killers that she speculated on have doctors that have worked with them and given then professional diagnosises that did not include ASD yet the auther without ever meeting or interviewing the killers somehow has a better diagnosis?

 

[diehardbiker]

Exactly, and do you or I want to live like that? No. As to the prisoners who escaped from the NY prison, there you go again thinking these people are thinking rationally. Never mind it would take them days or weeks to tunnel into someplace that they want to shoot up.

We aren't talking about criminals in the true sense of the word. These people who carry out these crimes do so because they are crazy or something sets them off and they do it on the spur of the moment.

Leave it to a gun enthusiast to say the killing and wounding of over 1,000 innocent people in just the United States due to these mass murders is basically a statistically insignificant number. Do you think the families of these victims think of it that way?

Why not mass shooting at Gun show? Why there was never one at gun show, but plenty of schools, malls, etc where they known to restrict gun access? If there was spur of moment, or they can't think straight, they would have try gun show because there is HUGE number of attendance, like one in North Virginia few weeks ago, OVER 65,000 attendance in a day!

You should get your eyes open, I have not seen any member on your side, the rest is actually on our side, maybe you need to fly back here from Fantasy Island and see for yourself.

 

[seb]

I'll assume you're ignoring my question about the study. The answer is 6. Only 6 where diagnosed with ASD The rest where speculation by the auther.

I will point out that many of the killers that she speculated on have doctors that have worked with them and given then professional diagnosises that did not include ASD yet the auther without ever meeting or interviewing the killers somehow has a better diagnosis?

I didn't answer because I knew you obviously knew the answer. The others were not speculation by the author, but listed as suspected to have had ASD.

Now can you provide your source on the doctors that gave their professional diagnosis as to the killers not having ASD because I have read the actual study and not found anything stating that in it.

 

[seb]

Why not mass shooting at Gun show? Why there was never one at gun show, but plenty of schools, malls, etc where they known to restrict gun access? If there was spur of moment, or they can't think straight, they would have try gun show because there is HUGE number of attendance, like one in North Virginia few weeks ago, OVER 65,000 attendance in a day!.

There you go again,trying to think logically. Most if not all of these shooters are crazy or in the case of someone acting on the spur of the moment are either killing someone who has done them wrong as in the case of a worker who has been fired, going home or out to his car and coming back in with a gun and killing the boss and co workers or in the cases where they feel their target has done something to harm them in some way such as: Adam Lanza, who first killed his mother and then went to Sandy Hook and killed 20 children and 6 adults because he felt his mother cared more about SHES than about him. Now if someone at a gun show pissed one of these potential killers off, they might go back to the gun show and open fire, but so far it hasn't happened, nobody is safe or immune from being a target of these people. Also, a vast majority of these killers take their own life at the end or are shot by the police, so a gun show might be a good target for one of these wackos, since everyone is armed and ready to shoot anything anyway.

 

[jonnyghost]

I didn't answer because I knew you obviously knew the answer. The others were not speculation by the author, but listed as suspected to have had ASD.

Now can you provide your source on the doctors that gave their professional diagnosis as to the killers not having ASD because I have read the actual study and not found anything stating that in it.

I did not say that thier diagnosises said they did not have ASD I said it did not include it. For instance Jeffrey Dahmer had a diagnosed personality disorder, alchohalism and anti personality disorder.

I can't seem to copy and past from my phone but I will get you the quote from the auther that talks about their speculation on suspected ASD on monday. All the suspected ASD catagory people are based on speculation by the authors.

 

[jonnyghost]

Besides. It doesn't matter who's suspicion it was. There is a reason there is a diagnosis criteria because suspition doesn't mean squat.

 

[hoichi]

Look
The vast majority of mass killers are white males.
The best option is to ban white males from owning guns
Its not like white males will buy illegal guns or take a gun into a gun free zone, or break laws.
Its not like mass murder is illegal..mmm..banning things, like mass murder works, its a neat trick...ban something and the plm is solved

This is the best option...
If your white and male.
A butter knife thats all, should be alowed you, lest you spread someone to death...
And since thevast vast vast vast majority if not all mass murderers where hearie...
Only Deaf should have guns....
Thats how statistics works....
Neat

 

[Reba]

Your basing your example on the assumption that these people who are going out or want to go out on a killing spree are rational and able to think logically and to a large extent they are not. Most of these killers have also been social misfits and have a hard time carrying on a conversation with their own family members let alone an illegal gun dealer.

Buying a gun is a business transaction, not a social interaction.

 

[Reba]

There you go again,trying to think logically. Most if not all of these shooters are crazy or in the case of someone acting on the spur of the moment are either killing someone who has done them wrong as in the case of a worker who has been fired, going home or out to his car and coming back in with a gun and killing the boss and co workers. . .

The case you described is NOT a "spur of the moment" killing--that is pre-meditation. The act of going out to get the gun and then coming back is legally pre-meditated.

If the employee was already wearing his gun, and got fired, and immediately drew his weapon, that might be considered "spur of the moment". I think you mean "heat of passion" which is legally defined:

Legal Dictionary

or in the cases where they feel their target has done something to harm them in some way such as: Adam Lanza, who first killed his mother and then went to Sandy Hook and killed 20 children and 6 adults because he felt his mother cared more about SHES than about him.

That would also be a pre-meditated case.

Now if someone at a gun show pissed one of these potential killers off, they might go back to the gun show and open fire, but so far it hasn't happened, nobody is safe or immune from being a target of these people.

Again, pre-meditated, not heat of passion. If one of the vendors (allowed to be wearing a gun) was wearing a loaded weapon and all of a sudden started shooting the customers, that could be heat of passion. However, if a customer showed up at the gun show wearing a loaded concealed weapon and didn't surrender it at the door but when in, got angry, and started shooting, that would still be pre-meditated. That's because he consciously committed an illegal act (going into the gun show armed) prior to getting "heated."

Also, a vast majority of these killers take their own life at the end or are shot by the police, so a gun show might be a good target for one of these wackos, since everyone is armed and ready to shoot anything anyway.

If the gun show participants are a "target" that means the shooting is pre-meditated. The shooter planned to go where the action is.

BTW, not everyone is armed at a gun show, and they aren't "ready to shoot anything."

Do you have documented examples of people legally wearing concealed weapons in areas that are legal for them to access all of a sudden going nuts and begin shooting the people around them?

 

[Reba]

Look
The vast majority of mass killers are white males.
The best option is to ban white males from owning guns
Its not like white males will buy illegal guns or take a gun into a gun free zone, or break laws.
Its not like mass murder is illegal..mmm..banning things, like mass murder works, its a neat trick...ban something and the plm is solved

Right. It's not like their girlfriends, wives, or mothers won't buy the guns for them.

. . .
And since thevast vast vast vast majority if not all mass murderers where hearie...
Only Deaf should have guns....
Thats how statistics works....
Neat

Alright!

 

[seb]

Buying a gun is a business transaction, not a social interaction.

My point was that many with autism such as Adam Lanza could not talk to people they did not know and buying a gun at a gun show would be out out of the question.