Oral school

[jillio]

No, I do not think that a voice-off enviroment is the best place for her. Problem is that I don't have another option. The choice is no ASL or voice off.

There are always other options. You simply have to be willing to exercise them.

 

[jillio]

But it is impossible in real life. I know tons of families who want everything but are unable to get it. Many of us want ASL and spoken language, but we are told we must choose.

That is absurd. Just because you have to chose a BI-BI or an oral only environment for her education doesn't mean that you have to choose same for every moment of her life.

And you can get ASL and spoken language in a Bi-Bi environment. You simply cannot get spoken langugage every minute of the school day in the classroom. If you want spoken language every minute of the day in the classroom, then you want an oral only educational environment. If you want ASL and spoken language, you want a Bi-Bi program. It is really very simple.You don't think a Bi-Bi environment is appropriate for her, yet you don't want to put her in an oral only environment. It would appear that you want a program that changes based on your whim at the moment. Or you want a school program that makes themselves responsible for providing services as a part of the curriculum that are actually adjunct services. It has been said before that if you think she needs additional speech therapy and/or auditory therapy, there is nothing that prevents you, as a parent, from obtaining outside services. Parents go outside the school system all the time to get tutoring services for their children, or other therapeutic services as is deemed necessary for their child's well being. There is absolutely nothing that prevents you doing the same with any adjunct service you feel she needs.

 

[faire_jour]

There are always other options. You simply have to be willing to exercise them.

You seem to be the expert, so tell me, what is the appropriate LRE for a child who uses both ASL and is learning spoken language through a cochlear implant?

Choices:
oral only school with experienced Teachers of the Deaf and therapists who know how to teach children with a hearing loss
OR
ASL voice off school with an SLP who has said that she does not know how to teach a child with a CI and says that she does not believe that the children in the school can be taught to speak. She SIM-COMS during speech and does not know how to do aural rehab
OR
mainstreamed with an interpreter and TOD services

 

[faire_jour]

If you are sim comming, you aren't using ASL.

I sign "want car red" and I voice "want car red". I sign "give-me book please" I voice "give me book please"

 

[faire_jour]

That is absurd. Just because you have to chose a BI-BI or an oral only environment for her education doesn't mean that you have to choose same for every moment of her life.

And you can get ASL and spoken language in a Bi-Bi environment. You simply cannot get spoken langugage every minute of the school day in the classroom. If you want spoken language every minute of the day in the classroom, then you want an oral only educational environment. If you want ASL and spoken language, you want a Bi-Bi program. It is really very simple.

You seem to think that my daughter's school is offering appropriate services, and that is where you are mistaken. Our SLP is unqualified, uneducated, and disrespectful.

 

[loml]

I don't think it's possible for me to share my experiences in a way that's neutral and does not "show my perceived inferiority of deaf schools." All I said was that I was rejected from a deaf school as a result from an IQ test they gave me. That is an event, not an opinion. Narcissism is not based on things that happen to you; it's based on what you think about others. Anyway, I guess I'll have to keep my mouth shut. My experiences are basically inconvenient truths. The only way people would be happy to hear about my oral experiences is if I complain about my life.

Daredevel7 - Please do not stop sharing your perspective on life. The experiences that you have add value to the discussion. I appreciate your style of interaction on this one dimensional medium and the sense of your truth from your postings.

 

[jillio]

You seem to be the expert, so tell me, what is the appropriate LRE for a child who uses both ASL and is learning spoken language through a cochlear implant?

Choices:
oral only school with experienced Teachers of the Deaf and therapists who know how to teach children with a hearing loss
OR
ASL voice off school with an SLP who has said that she does not know how to teach a child with a CI and says that she does not believe that the children in the school can be taught to speak. She SIM-COMS during speech and does not know how to do aural rehab
OR
mainstreamed with an interpreter and TOD services

The appropriate educational placement for a child that is reliant on ASL for comprehension is a classroom that uses ASL. That is very simple. For the child that is learning spoken language through an implant, the appropriate place for that is through the use of adjunct and additional services. Children are in a classroom to learn curriculum. It is not meant to be, nor has it ever been meant to be, a substitute for speech therapy or auditory therapy.

You seem to know what your choices are and what your goals are. Why are you having such difficulty making a decision? You have listed 3 options. Choose the one that best suits your goals. If your goal is to expose her to spoken language 24/7, and the actual learning that is supposed to take place in a classroom is secondary to that, then you make one choice. If you want her to be able to comprehend what is going on in a classroom while she develops speech skills, then your choice is another. Which is most important to you? Should school be used to educate, or as an extended speech therapy session?

 

[faire_jour]

The appropriate educational placement for a child that is reliant on ASL for comprehension is a classroom that uses ASL. That is very simple. For the child that is learning spoken language through an implant, the appropriate place for that is through the use of adjunct and additional services. Children are in a classroom to learn curriculum. It is not meant to be, nor has it ever been meant to be, a substitute for speech therapy or auditory therapy.

And if those services can't or won't be provided?

And if the child is bilingual and becomes a spoken langiuage user?

 

[loml]

You seem to think that my daughter's school is offering appropriate services, and that is where you are mistaken. Our SLP is unqualified, uneducated, and disrespectful.

faire-jour: How is it then that she has the distinction of being called professionally an SLP? Are you meaning that she is unqualified in your opinion to be working in the capacity that she is as with children who are deaf/hoh?

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[faire_jour]

faire-jour: How is it then that she has the distinction of being called professionally an SLP? Are you meaning that she is unqualified in your opinion to be working in the capacity that she is as with children who are deaf/hoh?

Thanks for clarifying.

She is not qualified to work with deaf or hoh kids. She got the job because she is the only SLP in the state that knows any sign.

 

[jillio]

You seem to think that my daughter's school is offering appropriate services, and that is where you are mistaken. Our SLP is unqualified, uneducated, and disrespectful.

That is your opinion of the SLP. Evidently, those who are responsible for her continuing employment disagree.

The school is not responsible for providing everything you demand. If you don't like the speech therapy she is getting at school, then contract on your own for additional AVT.

 

[Daredevel7]

Actually narcissim can be founded in actual events, when the significance of those events is exaggerated.

And you stated last night that you weren't even certain it was an IQ test, but that is just what your mother had told you.

Your experiences aren't inconvenient truths. Your experiences are what you have been told they are, or what you perceive them to be based on your own perspective. It doesn't, in any way, confer inferiority on another.

I wonder if you are as happy with your oral experience as you claim to be. After all, what do you have to compare it to?

I was waiting for these statements.

You often tell people that they "believe only what they want to believe". Unfortunately, the person who says this also "believes only what they want to believe" which is obviously the oral experience is always horrendous. Which shows up in the 2nd bolded statement.

Yes yes yes, I know what you're gonna say, you have research backing you up that the majority of orally raised deaf kids have shown to have social problems and so on. But sometimes, I think you think majority means all.
I am happy with my oral experience. Maybe Ill be happier if I was ASL raised instead. Frankly, I don't care. It's illogical to think like this.

Again, I am NOT promoting oralism. Unfortunately, like Lighthouse says, if I say "It doesn't work for most people", it sounds like I am saying "Most deaf people aren't smart enough for it." So this is one of those situations where I sound bad no matter what I say, unless I have a oral deaf "revelation" (realizing how much I missed out) and start talkin smack about oralism.

Leaving me with only one choice, keep my mouth shut.

 

[loml]

She is not qualified to work with deaf or hoh kids.

I see. Is the SLP taking or planning on enhancing her/his skills to meet the needs of the children in the school?

 

[jillio]

I sign "want car red" and I voice "want car red". I sign "give-me book please" I voice "give me book please"

Then you aren't sim comming. You are adding English word equivilents in ASL syntax. That is not sim comming. Nor is it a good model of either language. ASL does not have a spoken form, and therefore, anytime you attempt to sim com ASL you distort the language model. Nor is using ASL, or approximated ASL, sytax and appropriate model of English. You end up with providing insufficient models of both languages.

 

[faire_jour]

That is your opinion of the SLP. Evidently, those who are responsible for her continuing employment disagree.

The school is not responsible for providing everything you demand. If you don't like the speech therapy she is getting at school, then contract on your own for additional AVT.

Actually, she has had dozens of complaints from the staff of the school and the teachers. I am not the only one with the opinion. There are plenty of parents who have asked for speech, but have written that they do not want it with this SLP, they are receiving no services.

I do have a private therapist.

 

[faire_jour]

I see. Is the SLP taking or planning on enhancing her/his skills to meet the needs of the children in the school?

She came and observed my daughter's private therapy. I hope she learned something.

 

[faire_jour]

Then you aren't sim comming. You are adding English word equivilents in ASL syntax. That is not sim comming. Nor is it a good model of either language. ASL does not have a spoken form, and therefore, anytime you attempt to sim com ASL you distort the language model. Nor is using ASL, or approximated ASL, sytax and appropriate model of English. You end up with providing insufficient models of both languages.

Sim com simply means simultaneous communication. I am in fact simultaneous speaking and signing, so yes, it is SIM-COM.

 

[jillio]

I see. Is the SLP taking or planning on enhancing her/his skills to meet the needs of the children in the school?

All SLPs are required to have a certain number of continuing education hours in order to renew their license. Whether or not she is meeting the needs of the children is for the program to decide. If there is a parent that does not like the services she is getting under the school's program, that parent is free to contract for additional services outside the school.

I find it odd that two people who are not qualified as SLPs, TODs, or educators on any level feel that they are qualified to judge the qualifications and job performance of this particular SLP, particularly when at least one of them has never met her.

 

[faire_jour]

All SLPs are required to have a certain number of continuing education hours in order to renew their license. Whether or not she is meeting the needs of the children is for the program to decide. If there is a parent that does not like the services she is getting under the school's program, that parent is free to contract for additional services outside the school.

I find it odd that two people who are not qualified as SLPs, TODs, or educators on any level feel that they are qualified to judge the qualifications and job performance of this particular SLP, particularly when at least one of them has never met her.

The hours do not have to be related to deaf ed.

 

[jillio]

Actually, she has had dozens of complaints from the staff of the school and the teachers. I am not the only one with the opinion. There are plenty of parents who have asked for speech, but have written that they do not want it with this SLP, they are receiving no services.

I do have a private therapist.

Then if you have a private therapist, your problem is already solved.

And if there had been that many complaints, the SLP would no longer be employed in that particular school.

The school offers services, you turn them down, and then complain because the school is not offering services. How much sense does that make?