Oral school

[jillio]

U know what's so funny about Donna? Her husband is deaf and doesnt know sign. They have two deaf boys ages 5 and 7 and they both used to go to an oral-only school until a few years ago. She pulled them out cuz of the pressures she got from the adminstrators, audiologists and other parents to implant them. Now, they are in a TC program but her sons are fluent in both languages..ASL and spoken English and use them separately. I find that soooo amazing! Her boys kept watching us 5 girls who used sign with fascination. I told Donna I wanted to take them home!

Agreed. Its amazing how they flourish.

 

[Daredevel7]

It's funny. It seems like oral deaf kids shouldn't post here about their experiences because it's somehow twisted to "All deaf kids should do oralism" or "oralism is the best":

I used to think like u Daredevel and Sierra Rose..that oral-only was CHAMP up to about 10 years ago. Having equal access to info, language, and communication is unbeatable.

or some assume if we post here, we must be unhappy.

if you are happy being oralism, then you shouldn't be here (deaf forum), you should be happy with your hearing peers.

mm... yea

Isn't it odd how those who are orally oriented continue to use words like "judge" and to place value judgements? It would appear that for them, it is not a matter of what is more beneficial, but what is considered to be "good" or "bad."

Yea talk about judging:.... see the bolded below.

The sister whom I will call Christy who knows sign said that she was happy with how she was raised until she started using a terp for the workshops at her job because of the other two who had just got hired 2 years ago. Before, she was the only deaf one and was so used to missing out on information and didnt know any better.

Isn't that a bit narcisstic?

Seems like there's plenty of judging on oral deaf kids. We aren't even promoting oral-only, only sharing experiences. But I guess you guys want to keep our mouths shut....? Any reason why?

Lately, I've been hanging out with more deaf people and I see a lot of narcissism in the deaf community (both in real life and on AD). People feel very strongly about how a deaf one is raised. I understand people have their own thoughts on which method is better and they can't help it. However, what disturbs me greatly is not so much their opinions, but rather that their opinions actually affect their behavior towards someone. I find this wrong, especially in the deaf community. In reality, there really aren't that many deaf people. We don't need this "The Great Divide" crap.

 

[shel90]

It's funny. It seems like oral deaf kids shouldn't post here about their experiences because it's somehow twisted to "All deaf kids should do oralism" or "oralism is the best":



or some assume if we post here, we must be unhappy.



mm... yea



Yea talk about judging:.... see the bolded below.



Isn't that a bit narcisstic?

Seems like there's plenty of judging on oral deaf kids. We aren't even promoting oral-only, only sharing experiences. But I guess you guys want to keep our mouths shut....? Any reason why?

Lately, I've been hanging out with more deaf people and I see a lot of narcissism in the deaf community (both in real life and on AD). People feel very strongly about how a deaf one is raised. I understand people have their own thoughts on which method is better and they can't help it. However, what disturbs me greatly is not so much their opinions, but rather that their opinions actually affect their behavior towards someone. I find this wrong, especially in the deaf community. In reality, there really aren't that many deaf people. We don't need this "The Great Divide" crap.

My friend was talking about her own experiences and how she didnt know any better because she never had the experience of having equal access to information as her coworkers. She didnt say anything about u or any other oral deaf people. No judgement on oral deaf kids but the practices in the educational system that allows putting deaf children in environments where they dont have equal access like their hearing counterparts.

I dont promote the "Great Divide"..I am talking about deaf children's rights to full access to education and language. I dont know about others but pls do not apply that on me. Thanks.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I just don't see the reason why they hang out with people who are deaf message board? is it because of loneliness Sorry it make you mad, but you know, just trying to point out that you are no difference from us.

If you are successful that's great, but then all hearing parents want their kids to be just as successful and they will look at successful deaf oral people and say "My kid can do it too" (my parents was one of them). And just to say, "not all deaf kid should or could do it" just make us feel dumb. You have to admit that you did need some visual aids for the sake of other kids. Just remember just about all deaf kids can speak and read lips.. just that they do not deserve signing being withheld from them.

 

[shel90]

I just don't see the reason why they hang out with people who are deaf message board? Is it because they are lonely? That's what I am getting at. Sorry it make you mad, but you know, just trying to point out that you are no difference from us.

If you are successful that's great, but then all hearing parents want their kids to be just as successful and they will look at successful deaf oral people and say "My kid can do that too). And just to say, "not all deaf kid should or could do it" just make us feel dumb. You have to admit that you did need some visual aids for the sake of other kids. Just remember just about all deaf kids can speak and read lips.. just that they do not deserve signing being withheld from them because some deaf can handle that.

I get that impression from a lot of the hearing people ...like because I can speak clearly, why cant my brother? It is really unfair to do that.

 

[Bottesini]

if you are happy being oralism, then you shouldn't be here (deaf forum), you should be happy with your hearing peers.

I just don't see the reason why they hang out with people who are deaf message board? is it because of loneliness Sorry it make you mad, but you know, just trying to point out that you are no difference from us.

If you are successful that's great, but then all hearing parents want their kids to be just as successful and they will look at successful deaf oral people and say "My kid can do it too" (my parents was one of them). And just to say, "not all deaf kid should or could do it" just make us feel dumb. You have to admit that you did need some visual aids for the sake of other kids. Just remember just about all deaf kids can speak and read lips.. just that they do not deserve signing being withheld from them.

It doesn't seem like your first statement means they are no different.
It is truly just a nasty divisive statement.
I am both, and I like to spend my time with AllDeaf, which means all, HOH, oral, or signing, any type.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I know I don't speak for anyone here except for myself. I really don't understand the attitude that you have to be oralist to be advanced. Or you are advanced because you use oral approach. That's what it appears to me anyway (is there such thing as advanced school for the deaf?) But the reality is that you also had to depend on notetaking, textbooks, and other accomdation just like all other deaf people except some deaf perfer signing over lipreading so they don't miss out so they can learn.

If I truly depend on my oralism and lipreading all day for my social life, I would not come here at all. Deafness would be out of the picture. I wouldn't even bother socializing deaf people (which I don't because I can't understand them anyway, I understand hearing people alot better than deaf people). But truly our deafness does affect our social life which is why we come here for support. You hardly ever see a hearing person come here for support because they can't relate to us or our communication difficulties. Only those who are supportive of us come here.

 

[Bottesini]

I know I don't speak for anyone here except for myself. I really don't understand the attitude that you have to be oralist to be advanced. Or you are advanced because you use oral approach. That's what it appears to me anyway (is there such thing as advanced school for the deaf?) But then the reality is that you also had to depend on notetaking, textbooks, and other accomdation.

If I truly depend on my oralism and lipreading all day for my social life, I would not come here at all. Deafness would be out of the picture. I wouldn't even bother socializing deaf people (which I don't because I can't understand them anyway, I understand hearing people alot better than deaf people). But truly our deafness does affect our social life which is why we come here for support. You hardly ever see a hearing person come here for support because they can't relate to us or our communication difficulties. Only those who are supportive of us do come here.

Now I am truly confused. You tell oralists they should not be here, but you say you don't socialize deaf, and you can't understand deaf people. But you are coming here.

What makes you any different than the oralists you say should not be here?

 

[Lighthouse77]

no, I mean I acknowledge the difficulties of living without visual aids rather it is notetaking, signing, body language, etc.

I just have a little pet peeve of those who think they have a perfect life in oralism.

 

[faire_jour]

no, I mean I acknowledge the difficulties of living without visual aids rather it is notetaking, signing, body language, etc.

I just have a little pet peeve of those who think they have a perfect life in oralism.

They never said that ASL, or ANYTHING should be taken away from people. They said that they were fine with their lives and you got all pissy with them and said they shouldn't be here.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I guess that's due to being oralism for 32 years (so far) and no social life.

ASL should never be a sign of not intelligent enough to go to a good school. In fact, it should be available for advanced students (they should have a terp that will interpret for them in advance schools). And being oralism should NEVER be the only way to get better education. Oralism should only work like foreign language if deaf choose to communicate people that way.

 

[faire_jour]

I guess that's due to being oralism for 32 years (so far) and no social life.

ASL should never be a sign of not intelligent enough to go to a good school. In fact, it should be available for advanced students. And being oralism should NEVER be the only way to get better education. Oralism should only work like foreign language if deaf choose to communicate people that way.

A person can not learn to be a fluent user without exposure to a language. Expecting a child to learn spoken language without access and opportunity is absurd.

It is the same with ASL. Would we expect a person to learn ASL in 20 minutes a week?

 

[Lighthouse77]

I am sorry, but even to this day, I am not fluent user of spoken language. I don't think it really make the difference. I've seen deaf people who sign who speak a whole better than I can.. and much more successful than I am. I'm envy them.

 

[shel90]

A person can not learn to be a fluent user without exposure to a language. Expecting a child to learn spoken language without access and opportunity is absurd.

It is the same with ASL. Would we expect a person to learn ASL in 20 minutes a week?

I know many deaf people who grew up at Deaf schools who are fluent in Spoken English as well. How am I fluent in spoken English if I cant hear the language around me? By reading, reading and more reading. My deaf friends told me that was how it was for them despite by being in a signing environment most of the time. U keep saying it is impossible but look around u on AD..there r many members who grew up with sign language and yet were able to develop oral skills but best of all, at least 99% of them can read and write to communicate with u and I.

 

[faire_jour]

I know many deaf people who grew up at Deaf schools who are fluent in Spoken English as well. How am I fluent in spoken English if I cant hear the language around me? By reading, reading and more reading. My deaf friends told me that was how it was for them despite by being in a signing environment most of the time. U keep saying it is impossible but look around u on AD..there r many members who grew up with sign language and yet were able to develop oral skills but best of all, at least 99% of them can read and write to communicate with u and I.

I said spoken English, not written.

How does one learn a language that they are not exposed to? Would you recommend a child getting ASL lessons, 20 minutes a week? Of course not, they would never become fluent users. Don't you agree?

 

[Lighthouse77]

She mean fluent spoken English. If she didn't read, she would have just spoke exactly what she can understand. For me, If I didn't read. I would speak exactly what I hear.

"i ow r you?" (hi, how are you?) by reading, I know that h sound is suppose to be there. Plus, some dictionary teach you how to pronounce some words. First you learn the basic from your speech therapy and the rest is up to you.

 

[faire_jour]

She mean fluent spoken English. If she didn't read, she would have just spoke exactly what she can understand. For me, If I didn't read. I would speak exactly what I hear.

"i ow r you " (how are you) by reading, I know that h sound is suppose to be there. Plus, some dictionary teach you how to pronounce some words. First you learn the basic from your speech therapy and the rest is up to you.

This is a good argument for better amplification. The better they hear, the easier it is to speak.

 

[shel90]

I said spoken English, not written.

How does one learn a language that they are not exposed to? Would you recommend a child getting ASL lessons, 20 minutes a week? Of course not, they would never become fluent users. Don't you agree?

My friend's 2 deaf boys dont get ASL exposure as they are in a TC program but they get it from their aunt whenever they visit her. I spent a good amount of time last Sat chatting with them...they both were able to communicate using ASL without a problem. They arent getting it daily that's for sure. Children are amazing how quickly they acquire language. An adult probably wouldnt become fluent by just 20 mins a week.

 

[Lighthouse77]

except it is hard to get a deaf person the same hearing level as hearing people. I did wear powerful hearing aids since I was 2 or 3 years old.

 

[faire_jour]

My friend's 2 deaf boys dont get ASL exposure as they are in a TC program but they get it from their aunt whenever they visit her. I spent a good amount of time last Sat chatting with them...they both were able to communicate using ASL without a problem. They arent getting it daily that's for sure. Children are amazing how quickly they acquire language. An adult probably wouldnt become fluent by just 20 mins a week.

Are you sure they don't get ASL at school? Our TC program used ASL, especially above pre-school.