Oral school

[shel90]

...just wondering how all this effective lip reading took place in a classroom, or how one effectively lip reads another student sitting behind them, a teacher who is speaking while writing on the board.

It is just plain common sense. :roll:

 

[shel90]

There's more to life than catching every single word that comes out of your teachers' mouths. :shrug:

Not if education is at risk. Sorry, I would rather have full access to everything like my hearing peers do when it comes to education. If they have full access, why cant I? In the real world, I accept that I dont have full access to everything and that is fine but when it comes to education...for me that's very important. Agian, I see what happens to so many children when they fall behind.

 

[shel90]

Bain, Scott, and Steinberg (2004) state:

Children and adolescents who are deaf often face
challenges in social development that their hearing
peers are spared. The socialization process begins at
a young age with the parents’ communication of values,
expectations, mores, and rules to the child. The child
who has missed information transmitted in family
conversations lacks the foundation of conventional
social skills development. This can lead to future
difficulties throughout the school years and into.
adulthood, particularly if language is not easily
accessible (Meadow-Orlans, 1996).
Barriers to optimal socialization for deaf and hardof-
hearing children are well documented. Deaf children
are more likely than their hearing peers to
experience social deficits.

I dont see the justification in this. I just dont.

 

[loml]

Well, personally... being mainstreamed and oral was total success for me. So, of course I advocate it. Unlike Kashveera, i did not attend a deaf school at all. I was brought up orally and mainstreamed. however, my parents would once a year bring me to this deaf school for hearing assessments and they would ask the school if i could enroll and i was actually rejected basically because they knew i was "too advanced" and that if i had enrolled it would actually hold me back. I seemed to do pretty well with my hearing aids and lip-reading plus note-taking.
Soooo... in my own experience, oralism was the way to go.
I do realize that every child is different, its not a one size fits all type of thing. I am thinking that lip reading skills play a big part into it as well.

sirena rossa - Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[shel90]

Last weekend, I went to PA to get together with my deaf girlfriends. There are 6 of us and two of them are sisters who grew up orally. One of them can sign fluently while the other doesnt sign at all. It was interesting trying to sign and then use spoken English for her cuz she kept getting left out. My best friend, her sister, and I were the only others in the group who have oral skills so we did our best to interpret between her and the 2 others who have no oral skills at all. Was interesting...anyways, we were talking about oralism in deaf education.

The sister whom I will call Christy who knows sign said that she was happy with how she was raised until she started using a terp for the workshops at her job because of the other two who had just got hired 2 years ago. Before, she was the only deaf one and was so used to missing out on information and didnt know any better. Then, the other two got hired at her workplace and needed an terp..then Christy started watching the terp and realized how much she had been missing all this time. She said that she cant go back and has since requested a terp for every meeting even if the other two arent there. Her boss gave her a hard time about it because she had never requested it before and went on and on about how she can "speak" so she must be able to hear all that BS. However Christy's sister whom I will call Donna still doesnt know ASL to this day and in her opinion, she said she was happy being raised orally. Christy was telling her that since she learned how much she she has missed out growing up, she said she cant go back to oral only especially in the educational setting. They got into a debate about it...it was hard for the rest of us to catch anything they said cuz they werent signing but Christy explained to us later what Donna's beliefs were. Christy told us that she has not ever experienced what it is like to understand everything like hearing people do so she has nothing to compare to.

The 3 of us, Christy, my best friend, and I have experienced being oral only growing up and then learning ASL and all 3 of us feel the same ..we all agreed that there is no way we would want to repeat our childhood in an oral-only educational environment. Donna, on the other hand, thinks oralism is the best for all deaf children.

I just thought it was interesting to see.

I used to think like u Daredevel and Sierra Rose..that oral-only was CHAMP up to about 10 years ago. Having equal access to info, language, and communication is unbeatable.

 

[loml]

well, no.. im not saying i think oral only is the best way to go for all deaf students. i'm just simply sharing my experience and saying "hey hey i am someone who had an oral only approach and hey! guess what! it worked out well! it IS a possibility!" so, don't knock down the oral only approach cuz with patience, understanding, a lot of time, and good teachers who understand not to face the blackboard while speaking, plus accommodations like note taking, etc. it IS indeed possible to be successful when raised oral only. Like i said before, i do know its not a one size fits all. everyone is different.

and yeah, i am not exaggerating, my parents were strongly advised that i do not attend a deaf school - by professors of the school itself! - cause they felt that they would've actually delayed me. since i was already doing so well in mainstream.

sirena rossa - I cannot judge your personal experiences, as I am not you. One important component in all of this discussion is that you are feeling successful where you are.

 

[jillio]

(we don't read lips, we only played the guessing game all day long)

Yep.

 

[jillio]

I do second guess, but very little about "what if I went to a deaf school", or "what if I was mainstreamed" or "what if I had a CI". My impression is that oral deaf people are more second guessing on their deafness, and more unhappy about their deafness compared to native signers. It's perhaps more correct to say second guessing on deafness is a trait of oral deaf people, not all deaf people?

Good point.

 

[jillio]

I think many here would dispute that being deaf sucks.

Yes, I found that statement to be a bit disturbing, too, and certainly not related to the point I was making in any way,shape, or form.

 

[shel90]

I think many here would dispute that being deaf sucks.

Being deaf sucked for me until I learned ASL. Now, it is not an issue. I used to avoid non-signing environments like the plague cuz of my anxiety issues but thanks to my neighbor across the street, I am a lot better about it and more agressive with hearing non signers.

 

[jillio]

Jillio was quoting an article stating all the "bad things" that a deaf person experiences. So that was my response to Jillio. Everyone has bad moments due to something they have (or in our case, don't have).

I was stating the realities of the psycho-social difficulties that have been documented again and again and again over the years. I did not place a value judgement on it. "Bad" is a value judgement you have chosen, not me.

 

[jillio]

I dont see the justification in this. I just dont.

Nor do I. Nor do I understand why, despite the evidence, it continues to be ignored.:roll:

 

[shel90]

Jillio was quoting an article stating all the "bad things" that a deaf person experiences. So that was my response to Jillio. Everyone has bad moments due to something they have (or in our case, don't have).

A majority of deaf native signers have never experienced those "bad" things. My brother was puzzled to why I used to feel anxiety in a non-signing environment and has admitted to me that he has no idea what it feels like to be put in a classroom not understanding anything. He said that he doesnt know how I did it all of my life.I told him that I didnt know any different...that was the only thing I knew and gotten used to.

 

[jillio]

Being deaf sucked for me until I learned ASL. Now, it is not an issue. I used to avoid non-signing environments like the plague cuz of my anxiety issues but thanks to my neighbor across the street, I am a lot better about it and more agressive with hearing non signers.

Well, it has been my experience that those who are more limited in communication opportunities (i.e. oral only) have more resentment towards their deafness because they perceive it as creating more problems in their life. The reality, however, is that it is not the deafness that is totally responsible for the problems they experience, but the restricted communication. Your expeience, as well as untold numbers of others, supports that.

 

[jillio]

Last weekend, I went to PA to get together with my deaf girlfriends. There are 6 of us and two of them are sisters who grew up orally. One of them can sign fluently while the other doesnt sign at all. It was interesting trying to sign and then use spoken English for her cuz she kept getting left out. My best friend, her sister, and I were the only others in the group who have oral skills so we did our best to interpret between her and the 2 others who have no oral skills at all. Was interesting...anyways, we were talking about oralism in deaf education.

The sister whom I will call Christy who knows sign said that she was happy with how she was raised until she started using a terp for the workshops at her job because of the other two who had just got hired 2 years ago. Before, she was the only deaf one and was so used to missing out on information and didnt know any better. Then, the other two got hired at her workplace and needed an terp..then Christy started watching the terp and realized how much she had been missing all this time. She said that she cant go back and has since requested a terp for every meeting even if the other two arent there. Her boss gave her a hard time about it because she had never requested it before and went on and on about how she can "speak" so she must be able to hear all that BS. However Christy's sister whom I will call Donna still doesnt know ASL to this day and in her opinion, she said she was happy being raised orally. Christy was telling her that since she learned how much she she has missed out growing up, she said she cant go back to oral only especially in the educational setting. They got into a debate about it...it was hard for the rest of us to catch anything they said cuz they werent signing but Christy explained to us later what Donna's beliefs were. Christy told us that she has not ever experienced what it is like to understand everything like hearing people do so she has nothing to compare to.

The 3 of us, Christy, my best friend, and I have experienced being oral only growing up and then learning ASL and all 3 of us feel the same ..we all agreed that there is no way we would want to repeat our childhood in an oral-only educational environment. Donna, on the other hand, thinks oralism is the best for all deaf children.

I just thought it was interesting to see.

I used to think like u Daredevel and Sierra Rose..that oral-only was CHAMP up to about 10 years ago. Having equal access to info, language, and communication is unbeatable.

Anyone else see the common thread here?

 

[ASLGAL]

so, don't knock down the oral only approach cuz

I think the key problem is one word/philosophy associated with Oral and that is "ONLY"

Why do audists insist communication is an "only" ??



Sorry, my comment is late, I see I missed a whole page at least....

 

[jillio]

sirena rossa - I cannot judge your personal experiences, as I am not you. One important component in all of this discussion is that you are feeling successful where you are.

Isn't it odd how those who are orally oriented continue to use words like "judge" and to place value judgements? It would appear that for them, it is not a matter of what is more beneficial, but what is considered to be "good" or "bad."

 

[jillio]

I think the key problem is one word/philosophy associated with Oral and that is "ONLY"

Why do audists insist communication is an "only" ??

Exactly. It is the dichotomy that is so objectionable.

 

[shel90]

Anyone else see the common thread here?

U know what's so funny about Donna? Her husband is deaf and doesnt know sign. They have two deaf boys ages 5 and 7 and they both used to go to an oral-only school until a few years ago. She pulled them out cuz of the pressures she got from the adminstrators, audiologists and other parents to implant them. Now, they are in a TC program but her sons are fluent in both languages..ASL and spoken English and use them separately. I find that soooo amazing! Her boys kept watching us 5 girls who used sign with fascination. I told Donna I wanted to take them home!

 

[shel90]

I think the key problem is one word/philosophy associated with Oral and that is "ONLY"

Why do audists insist communication is an "only" ??



Sorry, my comment is late, I see I missed a whole page at least....

I agree...
I have no issues with oralism...just when it is advocated as the only way to in which the children are forbidden to be exposed to ASL. That is my big issue.