Oral school

[jillio]

I can not talk about all the other states, but at least in Utah, a child MUST have a delay to qualify for an IEP. I am very well researched, and I know how the IDEA is being applied to Deaf children in my state.

Then I would suggest that you consult a lawyer, because if Utah is actually subverting the Federal law, they are in violation and are jerking the entire population of kids with disabilities around.

 

[jillio]

I searched for the first study by Basil and Quigley. It would cost $10 to obtain it from the JSHR so I went with the abstract. As stated in the abstract, the study, which is over 30 years old, does not involve ASL programs and their effect upon literacy but the influence of early language and communication environment on later syntactic ability. As such, it is hardly proof, let alone conclusive proof, of the effect of ASL programs upon literacy but it must be noted that the two manual subject groups out performed the oral groups on every test measure employed.

I read the second entry and it involved the personal observations by the author of video tapes of finger spelling to one child. It had absolutely nothing to do with literacy and is never mentioned in the article.

I will come back with the results of my search for the third item in a few days.

The study from Basil and Quigley was cited to show that the research, indeed, extends back for years, and that it reaches the same conclusions. And, if you will read the entire study, rather than relying on an abstract that is not meant to impart the necessary information regarding the study, you will indeed find, in the methods section, that literacy was addressed. In addition, in the Conclusions section, you will see how the results of the study impact literacy. As I have said before, one cannot rely on an abstract. One must read the entire study in order to understand and evaluate the information obtained from that study.

I suggest, as well, that you go back and read the second study again, because it, as well, even as a case study, has significant application to literacy.

 

[Hear Again]

You are correct. PL94-142 (also known as IDEA) and the ADA both state that services are provided based on disability. None of the Federal statues mention any kind of "delay" as a qualifying factor. States must follow the federal statues as they supercede any state law that is on the books. State law cannot be used to keep from following the Federal law.

for providing further clarification.

 

[Lighthouse77]

Jillio clarified that one does not need to be delayed academically or otherwise in order to qualify for accommodations. I thought that may have been the case, but when I read faire_jour's post, I began to wonder.

yes, but when it is not available, LD class is the third option as a form of accommodation (especially when a child been delayed result of lack of accommodation over the years).

 

[shel90]

yes, but when it is not available, LD class is the third option as a form of accommodation (especially when a child been delayed result of lack of accommodation over the years).

Deaf kids who are language delayed dont have LD so by applying strategies designed to meet the needs of children with LD is more likely not appropriate for a population of deaf children.


Too often, I have seen these starategies used to teach deaf children by teachers who are not certified in Deaf Ed at the public schools.

 

[Hear Again]

yes, but when it is not available, LD class is the third option as a form of accommodation (especially when a child been delayed result of lack of accommodation over the years).

An LD placement does not help a child with a physical disability unless they have a learning disability. I'm proof of that. I was misdiagnosed as having a learning disability in first grade (due to my blindness) and was placed in an LD resource room. It didn't do me any good and only served to cause me continued frustration because the services provided in that environment were not appropriate for me.

The environment that was appropriate for me consisted of a mainstreamed placement in which I took Honors courses and had an itinerant teacher who could transcribe my assignments into Braille.

 

[shel90]

An LD placement does not help a child with a physical disability unless they have a learning disability. I'm proof of that. I was misdiagnosed as having a learning disability in first grade (due to my blindness) and was placed in an LD resource room. It didn't do me any good and only served to cause me continued frustration because the services provided in that environment were not appropriate for me.

The environment that was appropriate for me consisted of a mainstreamed placement in which I took Honors courses and had an itinerant teacher who could transcribe my assignments into Braille.

Exactly...too often in many schools, the funding is not available or they are overcrowded so children dont recieve the appropriate services unless their parents are well-informed and fight for the appropriate services.

 

[jillio]

yes, but when it is not available, LD class is the third option as a form of accommodation (especially when a child been delayed result of lack of accommodation over the years).

Public schools will often try to place deaf students in an LD class to keep from spending the money to create the program needed, or to pay the tuition to an out of district school that can serve the child properly. If they place them in an LD class, they can say that they are providing accommodation. However, it is not the proper accommodation for the student who is deaf. It is up to the parents to fight the school system on such a placement. It is not difficult to do. In that case, all that is necessary is telling the school that the child is not LD, the child is deaf, and that the services are not appropriate for deafness. Then refuse to sign the IEP, and tell them you will see them in due process. Most school systems will settle without actually going to due process.

 

[jillio]

Deaf kids who are language delayed dont have LD so by applying strategies designed to meet the needs of children with LD is more likely not appropriate for a population of deaf children.


Too often, I have seen these starategies used to teach deaf children by teachers who are not certified in Deaf Ed at the public schools.

Exactly. The mainstream does not have a program, does not want to create a program, and they don't want to send the child out of district. So they stick them in a classroom that doesn't meet their needs. And they also tend to stick all LD and cognitvely delayed kids in the same special ed classroom desptie the fact that autism requires different strategies than say, for instance, dyslexia. None of our kids are getting served properly in the mainstream.

 

[Hear Again]

Exactly...too often in many schools, the funding is not available or they are overcrowded so children dont recieve the appropriate services unless their parents are well-informed and fight for the appropriate services.

That's right, shel.

I think this is even more important for Deaf children than children with other disabilities given the communication barrier when Deaf children don't have access to ASL.

What do you think?

 

[Lighthouse77]

in a way, I can understand why they do this. Say if you have so few students with different special need but live a small town with only one elementary school. It is difficult to separate them in classes just for their needs, And they really don't have time to teach each students individually either. Not unless they hire several more teachers in their school.

 

[jillio]

in a way, I can understand why they do this. Say if you have so few students with different special need but live a small town with only one elementary school. It is difficult to separate them in classes just for their needs, And they really don't have time to teach each students individually either. Not unless they hire several more teachers in their school.

I understand "why" they do it. That doesn't make it acceptable for the student.

 

[Hear Again]

in a way, I can understand why they do this. Say if you have so few students with different special need but live a small town with only one elementary school. It is difficult to separate them in classes just for their needs, And they really don't have time to teach each students individually either. Not unless they hire several more teachers in their school.

That still doesn't make it right.

When I was placed in an LD resource room I wasn't challenged academically.

For instance, when we were given spelling books and reading primers, they only went as high as the 6th grade and my skills were well above that.

 

[Babyblue]

I can not talk about all the other states, but at least in Utah, a child MUST have a delay to qualify for an IEP. I am very well researched, and I know how the IDEA is being applied to Deaf children in my state.

My daughter is in the ALPHA classes, Gifted program, She requires and IEP.

SO it is not for Delayed...

 

[Hear Again]

There is absolutely NO excuse why a Deaf, blind or deafblind child should be placed in the wrong educational setting. If a child with a disability is performing well above their grade level, they should be placed in a program that challenges them academically. Doing otherwise is unfair and uncalled for.

 

[Babyblue]

Public schools will often try to place deaf students in an LD class to keep from spending the money to create the program needed, or to pay the tuition to an out of district school that can serve the child properly. If they place them in an LD class, they can say that they are providing accommodation. However, it is not the proper accommodation for the student who is deaf. It is up to the parents to fight the school system on such a placement. It is not difficult to do. In that case, all that is necessary is telling the school that the child is not LD, the child is deaf, and that the services are not appropriate for deafness. Then refuse to sign the IEP, and tell them you will see them in due process. Most school systems will settle without actually going to due process.

Some schools tried to do that with me. My Mom had a Hissy Fit!!

They ended up buying the tools I needed to stay in regular classes. Such as microphone and ear piece. And place me in front of the classroom.

I also Had an IEP. Mine was to keep me in regular classes...

 

[jillio]

My daughter is in the ALPHA classes, Gifted program, She requires and IEP.

SO it is not for Delayed...

Exactly. Gifted students are on an IEP as well, because they require additional services than are offered in the regular classroom and curriculum.

 

[Babyblue]

There is absolutely NO excuse why a Deaf, blind or deafblind child should be placed in the wrong educational setting. If a child with a disability is performing well above their grade level, they should be placed in a program that challenges them academically. Doing otherwise is unfair and uncalled for.

I agree.

 

[shel90]

That's right, shel.

I think this is even more important for Deaf children than children with other disabilities given the communication barrier when Deaf children don't have access to ASL.

What do you think?

The only issue with a majority of deaf children is access to the language, communication, and info in the educational setting. Provide them an environment where all that is fully accessible and the children will perform at their age appropriate level. Take that away, they are being disabled.

If a deaf child has additional needs such as LD and etc, then that's a whole another issue.

 

[Hear Again]

Exactly. Gifted students are on an IEP as well, because they require additional services than are offered in the regular classroom and curriculum.

When I entered the Honors program in high school, I had an IEP which outlined my needs as a gifted student. Gifted students deserve accommodations just as much as students with disabilities.