Observation

Beowulf said:
Oh, never mind. I just read the last few posts and was struck by the impression that you made a life choice for your daughter. I am not making judgments, honestly. I was just wondering if your continued posting in here will be construed as boasting about your choice, even though the jury is still out. Just forget anything I said. That is cool. :wave:
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I just refuse to engage in allowing people to judge and post vile things about myself and my child. If they want to start writing about her, I will not respond with anything to feed the fire. My choices remain what have been for the last two years.
 
jillio said:
That doesn't really answer my question. Immersion doesn't require specialized services. And the educational environment is much more than learning spoken language. An HOH person will never have 100% access to spoken language in more than a 1 on 1 situation. A deaf child with a CI functions as an HOH child would because they have not received 100% recovery of the hearing they had as a hearing child. Why not immerse the child in spoken language at home, and add the assistance of visual language to schooling. A child's future is more dependent upon a good education and developing the proper skills than it is on language mode. If you want oral language, why not use the home environment to foster it while you give the added advantage of the visual in the classroom. That way you insure complete access to education, and still have her immersed in oral language at home and social situations.
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Yea, even being immersed in spoken language, I still missed out a lot and so did a lot of other deaf people. ASL gives them the access that spoken language doesnt.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, even being immersed in spoken language, I still missed out a lot and so did a lot of other deaf people. ASL gives them the access that spoken language doesnt.
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I'm looking at your statement sentence as redundant and am a little confused. Since ASL is SPOKEN LANGUAGE, how can the spoken language (ASL) gives them the access that spoken language doesn't?
 
shel90 said:
Yea, even being immersed in spoken language, I still missed out a lot and so did a lot of other deaf people. ASL gives them the access that spoken language doesnt.
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Yep. Me too. In a group setting I would blab about football scores and they would tell me to shaddup because the subject was sex. :lol:
 
shel90 said:
Yea, even being immersed in spoken language, I still missed out a lot and so did a lot of other deaf people. ASL gives them the access that spoken language doesnt.
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Placements are very complicated. There are definitely things that make one placement better for one child than another. For example, if a deaf child has the ability to understand spoken language without lipreading, at great accuracy (say 90% or higher), they would be able to understand much more in a spoken language setting than someone who lipreads.
 
faire_jour said:
I just refuse to engage in allowing people to judge and post vile things about myself and my child. If they want to start writing about her, I will not respond with anything to feed the fire. My choices remain what have been for the last two years.
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If you don't want your child mentioned, then the best course of action would be for you not to bring her into your posts. When you do, and someone responds to your posts, your child is involved only because that is where you put her.:cool2:
 
jillio said:
If you don't want your child mentioned, then the best course of action would be for you not to bring her into your posts. When you do, and someone responds to your posts, your child is involved only because that is where you put her.:cool2:
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That's great, thanks for your advice.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, even being immersed in spoken language, I still missed out a lot and so did a lot of other deaf people. ASL gives them the access that spoken language doesnt.
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Exactly. You know, there is a simulated audio somewhere on the net that allows a hearing person to listen to what someone with a mild loss all the way to a profound loss will hear. Even with a mild loss, I lost about 20% of what the speaker was saying. So, say you aid a kid from profound to where they function more as a mild loss. They are still missing much, especially in a classroom setting. Classrooms are less than ideal for oral communication. And there is no devise in the world that will aid a child to the degree that they are able to function as a hearing child. Not to mention, those funtional gains are advanced only when the devise is working properly and the environment mimics the environment of a testing booth.
 
faire_jour said:
Placements are very complicated. There are definitely things that make one placement better for one child than another. For example, if a deaf child has the ability to understand spoken language without lipreading, at great accuracy (say 90% or higher), they would be able to understand much more in a spoken language setting than someone who lipreads.
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What about the 10% they still miss? Isn't that vitally important for the child's education?
 
jillio said:
Exactly. You know, there is a simulated audio somewhere on the net that allows a hearing person to listen to what someone with a mild loss all the way to a profound loss will hear. Even with a mild loss, I lost about 20% of what the speaker was saying. So, say you aid a kid from profound to where they function more as a mild loss. They are still missing much, especially in a classroom setting. Classrooms are less than ideal for oral communication. And there is no devise in the world that will aid a child to the degree that they are able to function as a hearing child. Not to mention, those funtional gains are advanced only when the devise is working properly and the environment mimics the environment of a testing booth.
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PLUS people who knows how to properly plug them in. My speech therapist didn't do it correctly, tried to force me to do a certain point of view that I didn't understand. I once asked my speech therapist if I could improve my voice to be able to talk with everyone, she insulted me "Your speech will NEVER improve!", what was the point of taking speech class at the first place?
 
LinuxGold said:
PLUS people who knows how to properly plug them in. My speech therapist didn't do it correctly, tried to force me to do a certain point of view that I didn't understand. I once asked my speech therapist if I could improve my voice to be able to talk with everyone, she insulted me "Your speech will NEVER improve!", what was the point of taking speech class at the first place?
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I get you. The speech therapist told me my son would not develop generally understandable speech skills, either. I wish I knew where she was practicing. I'd take him back as an adult and laugh at her.:giggle: And he did it attending a bi-bi school.
 
jillio said:
What about the 10% they still miss? Isn't that vitally important for the child's education?
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There are lots of ways to accommodate a deaf child. They could have CART, acoustically treated classrooms, FM systems, interpreters, notetakers, small group classrooms, specialized teachers of the deaf and on and on. That is why placement should be driven by the goals on an IEP, and should be determined for each child, rather than trying to force all deaf children to function the same because someone believes that is the "right" philosophy.
 
So the students should work harder to make sure they don't miss out on anything. Gotcha.

Much better than having interpreters or ASL in the classroom.
 
Banjo said:
So the students should work harder to make sure they don't miss out on anything. Gotcha.

Much better than having interpreters or ASL in the classroom.
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I'm sorry, who was this directed at? I must have missed who posted that.
 
faire_jour said:
There are lots of ways to accommodate a deaf child. They could have CART, acoustically treated classrooms, FM systems, interpreters, notetakers, small group classrooms, specialized teachers of the deaf and on and on. That is why placement should be driven by the goals on an IEP, and should be determined for each child, rather than trying to force all deaf children to function the same because someone believes that is the "right" philosophy.
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And tell me, please, who is going to pay for those thousands of dollars in accommodation. Especially those that involve structural accommodation? CART is basically ineffective for a child that is not a quick reader. FM systems do not block out background noise and have been shown to have little effect on functional performance.

Adding ASL to the mix is free.
 
Banjo said:
So the students should work harder to make sure they don't miss out on anything. Gotcha.

Much better than having interpreters or ASL in the classroom.
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Yup. Oral-only approaches truly suck.
IMO
 
LinuxGold said:
Banjo is directing it at all of us as an audience and participant. He is contributing his ideas.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that deaf students should have to work harder. I was suggesting that there are many options to accommodate.
 
jillio said:
And tell me, please, who is going to pay for those thousands of dollars in accommodation. Especially those that involve structural accommodation? CART is basically ineffective for a child that is not a quick reader. FM systems do not block out background noise and have been shown to have little effect on functional performance.

Adding ASL to the mix is free.
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I agree that FM systems do not block out background noises, but so do everything in general TOWARDS hearing people. With much exposure to FM, they might try (highly doubtful) and learn to ignore the "background noise" and identify the difference between voice and the noise.
 
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