My friend is convinced ASL isn't a language and there is no such thing as...

When I first saw this thread, I thought, "Oh crap .." Because honestly I don't want to get into a debate about deaf culture and whether sign language is a real language. All I can think of to say right now is that your friend is clearly someone who isn't well-versed in a deaf environment. And even having said that, I'm not sure you aren't someone who isn't just a troll trying to start a stupid debate about deaf culture and sign language. Because there is clearly a deaf culture, and anyone to say otherwise is just ignorant. The same as there is a different culture for different languages and different countries.
 
He said that just because I had a website that explained Deaf Culture doesn't mean it is a culture... I'm seriously about it drop this with him, he's starting to get a little rude with it.
 
Music_Life:

You can't convince somebody who doesn't WANT to be convinced. Some people (yes, smart ones, too) tend to disagree just to be disagreeable.

YOU know the deal about deaf culture so just send up the white flag on your skeptic friend. That is, unless you prefer to continue to debate about it.
 
society's_child said:
Music_Life:

You can't convince somebody who doesn't WANT to be convinced. Some people (yes, smart ones, too) tend to disagree just to be disagreeable.

YOU know the deal about deaf culture so just send up the white flag on your skeptic friend. That is, unless you prefer to continue to debate about it.
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Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you're also the same person who doesn't like it when a deaf person tries to use their voice when signing. I get the very distinct feeling you don't understand either fully what deaf culture is all about, so you're welcome to debate it all you want, but you may not be correct either.
 
Well, now we're going off on linguistics and Anthropology of anything, its almost stopped being about Deaf and ASL and has just turned into who can give the most proof and the better definition of culture, ha ha

Please don't start arguing on here guys, thats not what I wanted, I wanted opinions to help me, not hinder friendships or even just aquantinces on the site, so if you're going to start arguing, take it to a PM or something else.
 
Maybe you should've thought of that before starting a thread titled

"My friend is convinced ASL isn't a language and there is no such thing as...Deaf Culture."

On a deaf site, no less.
 
Is it so terrible to ask help from the people that would know best?


Please stop, I don't want this to get out of hand, if you don't agree with the people posting and you are adamant enough about your feelings then send it to them privately, or on your own board, don't try and start things with others on a board that was made out of pure good intention.
 
Group of people definds a culture. Ask your friend to defind his group. And if it is a culture or just?
 
AlleyCat said:
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you're also the same person who doesn't like it when a deaf person tries to use their voice when signing. I get the very distinct feeling you don't understand either fully what deaf culture is all about, so you're welcome to debate it all you want, but you may not be correct either.
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AlleyCat: You got me all wrong, hun. I'm a lover, not a fighter.:ily: But you asked me to correct you if you are mistaken so here goes:

I don't mind one bit when deaf people use their voices. I do have ONE very good friend who's deaf who uses her voice...it serves as a distraction for me because i start to rely more on her voice and not her signs. It wouldn't be a such a (minor) issue if i was fluent in asl, but i'm not there yet.

And you 100% right- I don't fully understand what deaf culture is all about. But i sure as heck know it exisists and is thriving.:cool2:
 
Music_Life said:
Is it so terrible to ask help from the people that would know best?


Please stop, I don't want this to get out of hand, if you don't agree with the people posting and you are adamant enough about your feelings then send it to them privately, or on your own board, don't try and start things with others on a board that was made out of pure good intention.
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I do apologize if i came off as harsh. You are doing the right thing by posting your questions here. :wave:
 
Don't worry, its fine, I just don't want anyone getting in trouble because of me, or what I would like to learn.
 
AlleyCat said:
Maybe you should've thought of that before starting a thread titled

"My friend is convinced ASL isn't a language and there is no such thing as...Deaf Culture."

On a deaf site, no less.
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Whoa :shock:

I can honestly tell you I haven't felt any malice on ML's part in creating this thread, and that it is not always a bad idea to have the benefit of the doubt. In fact, she was trying to educate her ignorant friend and seemed to want feedback from us about it. We are kinda experts, ya know! hehe.

S'cool? :wave:
 
Yeah, he still says that he thinks ASL is only used as communication but we're done debating about it, I made one final stand on culture and Deaf culture, and that was that.

Surprisingly he has two deaf aunts that I guess weren't important enough to mention until we were done, ha ha

I really wasn't on here to start a fight, or disagreement, thank you for agreeing with me Liza, and everyone else who did. I guess this board is done though, good night everyone.
 
shel90 said:
Take your friend Gallaudet University and he will get a good dose of Deaf culture!

Your friend is wrong and u are right and that is coming from someone who is involved with the Deaf community, Deaf culture and uses ASL daily. I have studied ASL and English linguistics during graduate school and trust me both languages couldnt be more different as far as syntax goes.

I swear..some hearing people need to get their facts straight before forming an opinion.

William Stokes, a reowned linguistist, proved that ASL is a language of its own.
William C. Stokoe, Jr. -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
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That what i had in mind. :lol: About the dose of deaf culture is good one. I think i want to keep that
 
Music_Life said:
I've sent him many links, and professional opinions on the matter but none of it works.


His only leg to stand on is Black's Law, its a dictionary used by lawyers, and according to him it says that ASL is just a branch of English and I've sent him so many links and even printed it out and he's still digging himself in deeper.

And just today is when he brought up the Deaf Culture, and I told my mom and even she got mad!

Lots of people have been in on this and they've easily given up because they think they'll lose against him, but we're both stubborn, ha ha
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It wouldn't hold up un a court, even if it came from a law book. Too many expert texts to prove that it is a language.

The law doesn't decide what constitutes a language and what doesn't. Linguists do, and that is after years of research and study of the language. So you win.
 
Music_Life said:
Well, now we're going off on linguistics and Anthropology of anything, its almost stopped being about Deaf and ASL and has just turned into who can give the most proof and the better definition of culture, ha ha

Please don't start arguing on here guys, thats not what I wanted, I wanted opinions to help me, not hinder friendships or even just aquantinces on the site, so if you're going to start arguing, take it to a PM or something else.
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Linguistic studies support the fact that ASL is indeed recognized as a language complete and separate from English, and anthropological studies support the fact that culture is dependent upon language, so if your friend wants to go there, he will bury himself, and you will still be right.
 
Music_Life said:
Yeah, he still says that he thinks ASL is only used as communication but we're done debating about it, I made one final stand on culture and Deaf culture, and that was that.

Surprisingly he has two deaf aunts that I guess weren't important enough to mention until we were done, ha ha

I really wasn't on here to start a fight, or disagreement, thank you for agreeing with me Liza, and everyone else who did. I guess this board is done though, good night everyone.
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ANY language is used for communication, duh! He jsut substantiated your point.
 
Just a couple of quick thoughts I found amusing about this:

What else is language for if not communication? :hmm:

Also (and somebody else already mentioned this), a group of people defines a culture. Yes, I took a human geography class in college and passed with A-, and the definition of culture was part of it. I don't remember the exact definition, but I do remember it being very easy to define any culture, and Deaf Culture very easily meets its definition.
 
shel90 said:
What do u mean knowing only ASL? All Deaf children grow up being exposed to English whether it is spoken or in print so I dont understand the concept of knowing only ASL.

If u mean that as a first language, then u are wrong because it is not true for everyone. I know so many deaf people who learned ASL as their first language who have excellent English skills.

It all depends on each individual on who struggles with English or not..not because of ASL.
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You're right, everyone is exposed to another language one way or another.

What I'm referring to are those who communicate in only ASL, write in ASL, etc.

I know some people who cannot understand or will misunderstand what is being said in English because of the ASL structure that they follow. I've tutored some students who claim that NTID isn't following Deaf Culture because their English assignments are "too hard" or follow English when they should follow ASL. That's the kind of people I'm talking about.

I have some friends who can sign ASL, but they can also sign SEE and PSE. However, other deaf people will look at these as not being part of Deaf Culture because they know more than ASL and that doesn't fit the profile of a Deaf person.
 
For what it's worth...

With people like that - who are convinced that ASL is not a language, and the Deaf Culture doesn't exist, I usually calmly ask them to clearly define the necessary aspects and attributes for both - then use their own definitions to prove that ASL is indeed a fully formed and living language, and the Deaf Culture can validly be defined as a culture. From there if they want to argue - I consider them just interested in a battle and bluntly tell them so. If they just want to row over something, at least I know they're just being a prat lol !
 
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