My 2-month old son has severe hearing loss

[shel90]

Sounds like they way my daughter picked up speech... by being exposed to it.
Btw... how does your daughter communicate with her grandparents, and friends of yours?
Have they all learned sign?

I'm glad you found good support in the Deaf community. It's wonderful that you and your daughter have such good communication. Like you said. THAT's the most important of all.
I find it sad that you have the idea that children are "fixed" and that "Often, that just doesn't happen" (success with technology). That sounds like the point of view of a society that is opposed to CI and tries to find arguments to oppose it.

Point is, that with the communication you have with your daughter, CI would have grea potentioalt. And none it does not have to exclude sign-language. On the contrary. That will be a great asset.

You said "Something like 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents, and almost ALL are raised orally, but that doesn't mean it is the right choice. Learning ASL was difficult for us, but learning to listen has been infinatly MORE difficult for my daughter. I have access to 100% of the visual information, she doesn't have that kind of access to speech. Plus, I am the mother, she is the child, it is my job to bring language to her, not force her to learn my language because it is easier for me. I must meet her needs, even if it is hard."

I disagree with this statement... It's a vision of the Deaf world (I found it in books by Harlan Lane) At first, when the child is deaf, of course this is the case when establishing communication. But for us parents it is the task to give our children all the tools to be successful. For me that included for our daughter to being able to communicate with her grandparents, friends of us, friends of her siblings, people in the street. Not to expect that all these people would adapt to her. She has the disability. We have the responsibility to prepare her for dealing with it.
Adapting only to the childs abilities will in the long run limit her capabilities. It will limit the child in the choices it can make later in life.

I recall you are / were investigating the possibility of CI.
I hope you base your decision NOT on previous (bad) experience where your child needed to speak without being able to hear, but that you base your decision on expanding the possibilities for your child - reducing her limitations.
And perhaps you come to the conclusion that it is best for your child to grow up deaf, in a Deaf world. That's fine. As long as you have looked from different perspectives.

Adapting to the child's disability will limit the child? Interesting but I don't agree.

 

[Cloggy]

Adapting to the child's disability will limit the child? Interesting but I don't agree.

I'm not surprised.... and I expected the reaction..
But - didn't I say "At first, when the child is deaf, of course this is the case when establishing communication." and here you're right. Adapting will definitely not limit the childs ability. On the contrary..
But, when the child is limited to signlanguage only, that is limiting the possibilities seen with respect to the possibilities that are available.

Let me give a recent example....
Yesterday Lotte explained to her mother how to do a golf-swing.
She remembered it from a couple of weeks ago, when she heard the trainer explain it to her and 10 other children, and she explained it to her mother, step by step...... with the golfclub in her hand !
(Will put the video on Lotte's blog...)

I wonder how this would work had we "adapted to her disability" by sticking to signlanguage only....????

 

[shel90]

I'm not surprised.... and I expected the reaction..
But - didn't I say "At first, when the child is deaf, of course this is the case when establishing communication." and here you're right. Adapting will definitely not limit the childs ability. On the contrary..
But, when the child is limited to signlanguage only, that is limiting the possibilities seen with respect to the possibilities that are available.

Let me give a recent example....
Yesterday Lotte explained to her mother how to do a golf-swing.
She remembered it from a couple of weeks ago, when she heard the trainer explain it to her and 10 other children, and she explained it to her mother, step by step...... with the golfclub in her hand !
(Will put the video on Lotte's blog...)

I wonder how this would work had we "adapted to her disability" by sticking to signlanguage only....????

Adapting to her disability like having captioning, strobe lights, visual cues and so on...to make a child to go without those things is making life more limiting...


I never have proposed in sign language only. Remember that I have always supported both ASL and oral (the full toolbox) so you are speaking to the wrong person if you are telling me that by exposing to the child to ASL only is limiting.

Remember that I grew up oral and adapted to the hearing world but at the end, it only limited me even more instead of the opposite as it was intended to be.

 

[shel90]

Actually, I have never taught my daughter any sign language. She acquired it natural just as a hearing child learns spoken language. She was exposed to it and just picked it up. No lessons or therapies needed.

That's awesome!

 

[JennyB]

I agree with Shel, Deaf children need to be given the full tool box. They are going to be no farther behind for bi-lingual. If anything it will help them in life!

I know both ASL and Spoken English. I didn't use ASL in public school and I was mainstreamed. I didn't have supports other than my FM. Now that I am heading to University next year I am going to using ASL terps. I speech read 100% of the time when using oral language. There is no way I can speech read an entire lecture - it is just not going to happen. Even if I could catch enough of it to understand the class, it would be exhausting. By also having ASL in my 'tool box' I am able to transition to University and use the supports available to me there in order to learn and acheive on an equal playing feild as my hearing peers.

I could go through the evaluations for a CI, and I would more than likely be a candidate. I don't want to though. I have as much access to language and sound as anyone else. I see language and I see sounds. I feel sounds too. I experience the entire world of sound - just in a different way. I don't feel like there is anything wrong with that or that I am disabled because of it. Everyone experiences the world differently and everyone experiences sound differently. Even two hearing people.

I am 18 and I am graduating high school next week. I have the best marks in my graduating class and I have received several academic/community involvment based scholarships for my future studies. I was accepted to 9 different post-secondary programs at 5 different schools. If being deaf and raised bilingual hurt me, well it sure doesn't show!

 

[shel90]

I agree with Shel, Deaf children need to be given the full tool box. They are going to be no farther behind for bi-lingual. If anything it will help them in life!

I know both ASL and Spoken English. I didn't use ASL in public school and I was mainstreamed. I didn't have supports other than my FM. Now that I am heading to University next year I am going to using ASL terps. I speech read 100% of the time when using oral language. There is no way I can speech read an entire lecture - it is just not going to happen. Even if I could catch enough of it to understand the class, it would be exhausting. By also having ASL in my 'tool box' I am able to transition to University and use the supports available to me there in order to learn and acheive on an equal playing feild as my hearing peers.

I could go through the evaluations for a CI, and I would more than likely be a candidate. I don't want to though. I have as much access to language and sound as anyone else. I see language and I see sounds. I feel sounds too. I experience the entire world of sound - just in a different way. I don't feel like there is anything wrong with that or that I am disabled because of it. Everyone experiences the world differently and everyone experiences sound differently. Even two hearing people.

I am 18 and I am graduating high school next week. I have the best marks in my graduating class and I have received several academic/community involvment based scholarships for my future studies. I was accepted to 9 different post-secondary programs at 5 different schools. If being deaf and raised bilingual hurt me, well it sure doesn't show!

Being deaf and molingual in a language that wasnt fully accesible to me most of the time really hurted me!

 

[Cloggy]

Adapting to her disability like having captioning, strobe lights, visual cues and so on...to make a child to go without those things is making life more limiting...

huh?

I never have proposed in sign language only. Remember that I have always supported both ASL and oral (the full toolbox) so you are speaking to the wrong person if you are telling me that by exposing to the child to ASL only is limiting...

Wasn't really directed to you....

....Remember that I grew up oral and adapted to the hearing world but at the end, it only limited me even more instead of the opposite as it was intended to be.

I'm talking about adapting to the "hearing world" by being able to hear.... There's a big difference between adapting when you cannot hear, and when you can....

ASL - and being able to hear... Ideal combination

 

[jillio]

Adapting to her disability like having captioning, strobe lights, visual cues and so on...to make a child to go without those things is making life more limiting...


I never have proposed in sign language only. Remember that I have always supported both ASL and oral (the full toolbox) so you are speaking to the wrong person if you are telling me that by exposing to the child to ASL only is limiting.

Remember that I grew up oral and adapted to the hearing world but at the end, it only limited me even more instead of the opposite as it was intended to be.

And imagine that she would have still been able to explain the golf swing in step by step sequence using the descriptive terms of ASL.

 

[rick48]

I am 18 and I am graduating high school next week. I have the best marks in my graduating class and I have received several academic/community involvment based scholarships for my future studies. I was accepted to 9 different post-secondary programs at 5 different schools. If being deaf and raised bilingual hurt me, well it sure doesn't show!

JennyB,

Congratulations and best of luck in college next year. The issue is not one's individual success, for instance our friend's daughter who is deaf and raised orally, just graduated college ranked number 1 in her college and 10th overall in the entire university. Rather, the focus should always be on what is best for each indiviual child and I guess that is where I part company with you for I believe that while having a toolbox approach is fine, you still have to act in your your child's best interests and if that means focusing only or predominately on only one "tool" so to speak, then that is what the parents need to do.

I guess treating a deaf child as a unique individual with his or her own needs and preferences is a foreign concept to some in the Deaf community.
Rick

 

[vallee]

What good is anything if you can't get a job?

The reality of life, who is the employer going to hire?

This is not flaming or debate, it is reality. I have been working since 16, I'm 39 now. I sued a school system for hiring practices. (That is as much as I can say) There are realities we all must face. I have been with the same school system 14 years. The last year has been the easiest.

 

[Cloggy]

And imagine that she would have still been able to explain the golf swing in step by step sequence using the descriptive terms of ASL.

And imagine that she is able to explain the golf swing in fluent sequence while explaining without using the descriptive terms of ASL.
WOW... not bad for a 6-year old child, born deaf, that can hear almost 4 years!
Imagine the future!

 

[shel90]

What good is anything if you can't get a job?

The reality of life, who is the employer going to hire?

This is not flaming or debate, it is reality. I have been working since 16, I'm 39 now. I sued a school system for hiring practices. (That is as much as I can say) There are realities we all must face. I have been with the same school system 14 years. The last year has been the easiest.

That's why I believe in giving all deaf children the full toolbox instead of just one approach only.

 

[AlleyCat]

JennyB,

Congratulations and best of luck in college next year. The issue is not one's individual success, for instance our friend's daughter who is deaf and raised orally, just graduated college ranked number 1 in her college and 10th overall in the entire university. Rather, the focus should always be on what is best for each indiviual child and I guess that is where I part company with you for I believe that while having a toolbox approach is fine, you still have to act in your your child's best interests and if that means focusing only or predominately on only one "tool" so to speak, then that is what the parents need to do.

I guess treating a deaf child as a unique individual with his or her own needs and preferences is a foreign concept to some in the Deaf community.
Rick

How is focusing on just one "tool" in the best interest of a child? Refusing to expose a child to all available resources they can have doesn't do anything BUT limit them. This has been the on-going controversy for quite some time now, and it appears there is a very divided opinion between those of us who are deaf and have lived this kind of life (as well as family members including parents or siblings of a deaf child) -- and those who are encountering a deaf child for the first time, and all most of those parents want to do is close the door on available resources for the child.

 

[rick48]

How is focusing on just one "tool" in the best interest of a child? Refusing to expose a child to all available resources they can have doesn't do anything BUT limit them. This has been the on-going controversy for quite some time now, and it appears there is a very divided opinion between those of us who are deaf and have lived this kind of life (as well as family members including parents or siblings of a deaf child) -- and those who are encountering a deaf child for the first time, and all most of those parents want to do is close the door on available resources for the child.

If your child demosntrates a preference for one particular method or relies upon one method over others or readily/easily picks up one method over others then it very well may be in the best interest of that child to focus primarily or almost exclusively on one method as your are following the lead that the child is giving you. In my daughter's case, she is auditory in nature, it is how she learns best, once she received her ci her spoken language exploded, she has never, and still to this day have any interest in sign and as an infant if you tried to sign to her or use signs to re-enforce words, sounds or concepts she would ignore the sign.

That's just one example of how it is in the best interest of a child or do you claim to know my child better than we do merely because you are deaf? Did not know that being deaf allowed you to know the needs and wants of children you have never met better than the parents who are actively involved in their child's life?
Rick

 

[rick48]

And imagine that she is able to explain the golf swing in fluent sequence while explaining without using the descriptive terms of ASL.
WOW... not bad for a 6-year old child, born deaf, that can hear almost 4 years!
Imagine the future!

You got it Cloggy, they just don't get it. Can't wait to see the video.
Rick

 

[AlleyCat]

Of course I don't know your child better than you. However, I find it interesting that you referred to trying to teach your child sign language as an infant. But, the older she gets, she may become far more receptive to sign language. As an older child or as an adult, she will not be able to ignore that she is deaf. And, from a social aspect with other deaf children, sign language may very well be something she will enjoy. Also, as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, speech-reading is very taxing, very hard on the eyes after prolonged periods of time, whereas sign language is not (or at least not anywhere near as much.) So being entirely auditory is not easy.

 

[rick48]

Of course I don't know your child better than you.

Then why comment upon how we raised are child at all? Why not accept the fact that we know what is better for her than you do?

BTW I did not say that we taught our daughter sign and sshe is 21 and still has no interest in sign and prefers to communicate orally.
Rick

 

[vallee]

Why is it that there are people who believe you have to know ASL to be a complete deaf person?

 

[shel90]

Why is it that there are people who believe you have to know ASL to be a complete deaf person?

I realy do not understand nor see the relevance of this comment. Anyways, putting deaf children at the risk for language delays or emotional issues for the sake of oral skills is something I think is wrong. Nothing to do about being culturally Deaf but then again maybe u and others don't really understand what it is like and why u r all making these kinds of comments.

 

[vallee]

Of course I don't know your child better than you. However, I find it interesting that you referred to trying to teach your child sign language as an infant. But, the older she gets, she may become far more receptive to sign language. As an older child or as an adult, she will not be able to ignore that she is deaf. And, from a social aspect with other deaf children, sign language may very well be something she will enjoy. Also, as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, speech-reading is very taxing, very hard on the eyes after prolonged periods of time, whereas sign language is not (or at least not anywhere near as much.) So being entirely auditory is not easy.[/QUOTEs

sorry shel90, the comment came from this posting. Not every adult who grow up wants to learn ASL. Some people are just oral. I am learning ASL, but having a difficult time. I am thinking very seriously to moving to Cued Speech instead.