MSNBC: Texas to let teachers bring guns to school

[shel90]

It is not a national policy.

It is not a policy that is enforced or hard to circumvent.

It cannot prevent attacks from a determined armed outsider unless the doors and windows are built like bank vaults.

At the Deaf school where I work at, all staff and students go to the MPR in which is a huge conference/mtg room that has no windows. My daughter's public school has a special place where all the students can go to during lockdowns. No windows there either.

 

[Steel X]

Bad idea. VERY bad idea.

School police is enough.

 

[Jiro]

There are also cases where a student waits outside and shoots, as in the Arkansas case where the student went in, rang a fire alarm, and then he and a partner started shooting when the students were ushered outside. Teachers could not tell where exactly the shots were coming from, as the 2 shooters were concealed in the woods, so an armed teacher would have been useless. These shooters were 11 and 13 years old, and got their arsenal of weapons from their homes, and their grandparent's homes.

uh..... do you realize this is the first school massacre in a long time? Why would we arm student/teacher in the first place? Who'd ever expect a school massacre caused by 11 & 13 years old? That was the beginning of domino effect. the next school massacre after this occurred inside school and the students were killed in execution style... with no remorse. Now there are school massacres next and next and next. all occurred inside the schools.. with execution styles... with thorough planning... Enough is enough.

very poor argument, Jillio. very poor.

 

[Jiro]

The plan approved by the school district does not restrict it to two teachers. The plan lets every teacher be armed.

actually no. it does not say that ALL teachers must be armed. It allowed teachers to bring guns if they want to...... but they must pass the federal/state qualification to obtain CCW and firearms. And then they must undergo trainings and have approval from school officials.

Chance is - it's most likely 1-2 armed teachers who are willing to go thru the hassles & costs and bear a heavy burden of responsibility. I highly doubt rest of teachers are interested in it.

 

[Jiro]

I dont agree with this...leave it to the cops and armed security guards to handle the gun issues.

that's the thing. I've shown you that all major school shootings (except Jonesboro) ended in suicides. They were not apprehended nor stopped by cops or armed security guards.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

What?!

Just because I corrected your statement I "have a cold heart?"

Are you well?

Accord your post.

Originally Posted by Reba
It happens but it isn't a "common" occurrence in America.

"It happens"? Unarmed pregnant women, teenagers, children, senior etc were being hurt/killed by Police Officer with taser or gun. It´s bad judgement and unprofessional of Police Officers. Do you call it "It happens"?

Sure, it´s not common to you as an American but for me as an European, yes.

 

[jillio]

It is not a national policy.

It is not a policy that is enforced or hard to circumvent.

It cannot prevent attacks from a determined armed outsider unless the doors and windows are built like bank vaults.

Now you are just being silly. If you are going to play on people's fear, let's just say it wouldn't protect from an invasion from Mars, either.

Again, cite the actual risk.

 

[jillio]

At the Deaf school where I work at, all staff and students go to the MPR in which is a huge conference/mtg room that has no windows. My daughter's public school has a special place where all the students can go to during lockdowns. No windows there either.

Exactly. I am in and out of high schools and junior highs all the time in this area. I have yet to visit one that does not have the same policy. My son's Deaf school had such a policy even prior to the panic over school shootings.

 

[jillio]

uh..... do you realize this is the first school massacre in a long time? Why would we arm student/teacher in the first place? Who'd ever expect a school massacre caused by 11 & 13 years old? That was the beginning of domino effect. the next school massacre after this occurred inside school and the students were killed in execution style... with no remorse. Now there are school massacres next and next and next. all occurred inside the schools.. with execution styles... with thorough planning... Enough is enough.

very poor argument, Jillio. very poor.

What exactly do you mean "the first school shooting in a long time?" Do you know the date of the incident to which I am referring?

And the only poor argument is the one you are presenting for armed teachers. When presented with facts regarding the incidents you are using to say that armed teachers are necessary, you cannot even apply your theory to those facts. In other words, jiro, you are walking around with a gun and no bullets.

 

[jillio]

actually no. it does not say that ALL teachers must be armed. It allowed teachers to bring guns if they want to...... but they must pass the federal/state qualification to obtain CCW and firearms. And then they must undergo trainings and have approval from school officials.

Chance is - it's most likely 1-2 armed teachers who are willing to go thru the hassles & costs and bear a heavy burden of responsibility. I highly doubt rest of teachers are interested in it.

As Woka said, it does not restrict the policy to 1 or 2 teachers. Thanks for substantiating our side.

 

[jillio]

that's the thing. I've shown you that all major school shootings (except Jonesboro) ended in suicides. They were not apprehended nor stopped by cops or armed security guards.

Yes, dear, they did. And there is a reason for that. In fact, there is much evidence that that was the intention of the shooters all along. Once again, your comprehension of the psychodynamics of the situaion is very, very shallow, and until you are capable of thinking beyond the surface, you will walk around in confusion.

And if a trained police officer and trained security guards could not stop the tragedy as it unfolded, what makes you think a teacher could?

The best way for a teacher to assist in avoiding these tragedies is to act on the numerous warning signs that have presented themselves in each and every incident, rather than ignoring them.

 

[Wokamuka]

The plan lets every teacher be armed.

actually no. it does not say that ALL teachers must be armed.

 

[Jiro]

As Woka said, it does not restrict the policy to 1 or 2 teachers. Thanks for substantiating our side.

and I've already explained several times that not ALL teachers will be armed. Not ALL teachers are qualified for it and they must be approved by school officials. Want me to explain it in 1st grade language?

100% Gun Ban is illegal and unconstitutional on FEDERAL level... therefore - we must have access to guns. But the state had a clever way of getting around with it by having a policy/legislation called..... "gun restriction" which is nearly same as gun ban which I called it - a "polite gun ban"

my state technically issued CCW but with a high restriction... only about 5-7 people in NJ have CCW. My state does not provide liability protection when it comes to self-defense - things can easily turn into murder/manslaughter in self-defense case.

summary - school allowed guns on campus carried by teachers... but has strict restrictions and requirements. therefore - in my opinion, it's most likely 1-2 armed teachers for that school.

 

[Wokamuka]

and I've already explained several times that not ALL teachers will be armed. Not ALL teachers are qualified for it and they must be approved by school officials. Want me to explain it in 1st grade language?

Here's 1st grade language for you (again): the plan does not prevent ALL teachers from being armed. It lets every teacher be armed. (Need Kindergarten language instead?)

 

[Jiro]

Here's 1st grade language for you (again): the plan does prevent ALL teachers from being armed. It lets every teacher be armed. (Need Kindergarten language instead?)

I think you better look at what you just wrote. These 2 sentences are contradictory to each other.

 

[Jiro]

Yes, dear, they did. And there is a reason for that. In fact, there is much evidence that that was the intention of the shooters all along. Once again, your comprehension of the psychodynamics of the situaion is very, very shallow, and until you are capable of thinking beyond the surface, you will walk around in confusion.

And if a trained police officer and trained security guards could not stop the tragedy as it unfolded, what makes you think a teacher could?

The best way for a teacher to assist in avoiding these tragedies is to act on the numerous warning signs that have presented themselves in each and every incident, rather than ignoring them.

and what makes you think proactive thing is going to help effectively? and how is that possible in ghetto schools? is that part of your thesis? sorry to disappoint you but it's not going to work as you think - only in your little lab and paper.

don't you ever think about a kid being shunned if he were singled out by teacher/counselor for being a potential mental case? That is the life of high school. But when it comes to college - that is a different story and I agreed with you that they need to seriously revise/improve their policy regarding treatment and follow-up of depressed/mentally-disturbed/illed students. I was deeply disturbed about their lack of follow-ups on VT shooter. it's such a bullshit that they did not just because he does not reside on campus.

in fact - you're trending a thin line of discrimination/defamation or whatsoever - possible lawsuits by angry parents especially in upper class area. No parents want their kids to be labeled as "possible/potential mental case." Expect some serious lawsuits. :roll: Another EPIC FAIL.

Teachers are there with their students. They have genuine concern for their students. They will protect them with their life.... as we've seen such courageous display in school shootings. 1% chance of school shooting as you said - a rare occurrence thus no need to thin the limited budget but school shooting do happens and will happen again. It is logical choice to me that 1-2 teacher/principal/school official should be armed if they want to.

 

[Wokamuka]

I think you better look at what you just wrote. These 2 sentences are contradictory to each other.

Obviously, I meant to say "not prevent". No response to the obvious?

 

[Jiro]

Obviously, I meant to say "not prevent". No response to the obvious?

what response? your sentences were flawed. please repost with correct sentences so i can properly response to it.

 

[jillio]

and I've already explained several times that not ALL teachers will be armed. Not ALL teachers are qualified for it and they must be approved by school officials. Want me to explain it in 1st grade language?

100% Gun Ban is illegal and unconstitutional on FEDERAL level... therefore - we must have access to guns. But the state had a clever way of getting around with it by having a policy/legislation called..... "gun restriction" which is nearly same as gun ban which I called it - a "polite gun ban"

my state technically issued CCW but with a high restriction... only about 5-7 people in NJ have CCW. My state does not provide liability protection when it comes to self-defense - things can easily turn into murder/manslaughter in self-defense case.

summary - school allowed guns on campus carried by teachers... but has strict restrictions and requirements. therefore - in my opinion, it's most likely 1-2 armed teachers for that school.

Sorry, but you REALLY need to read more carefully, and then work on keeping what you have read (and stated) in your short term memory long enough to make your next post. You've contradicted yourself so many times that you can't even keep up with yourself. The policy, in fact, does provide the allowance for every teacher to be armed. Do I need to explain the meaniong of "every" for you, or do you think you can work real hard and get it on your own?

What the hell are you talking about "100% gun ban"? And what does NJ concealed carry policy have to do with the topic. You are continually using this thread to whine about the concealed carry permit policy in your state, and to cry about "100% gun bans" that are neither in place nor any more likely than a school shooting. The subject here is State legislation, and you just keep whining about "FEDERAL" policy. You just keep getting more and more disjointed.

 

[Wokamuka]

Here's 1st grade language for you (again): the plan does not prevent ALL teachers from being armed. It lets every teacher be armed. (Need Kindergarten language instead?)

Reposted.