Mother seeks girl's hysterectomy

there are very distinct differences between PAS and euthanasia,


And any where PAS is allowed to be leagle it won't be long before
euthanasia is brought in. The social engineers will bring in their
sob stories about the pain and anguish and convince us that
this is the only humane way to treat people. (Just like they are
supposedly trying to "help" this girl and improve her quality of life)
Then the people who want to live but can't communicate that desire
will be murdered for the convince of care givers. People can be such
sheep.
 
jillio said:
Yes, prolapsed bladder and incontinence are two very well known and relatively frequent complications of hysterectomy. Often, additional surgery is required to correct these problems.
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Katie is already incontinent. Doubly.

Fuzzy
 
jillio said:
No, fuzzy, there are very distinct differences between PAS and euthanasia, both legal and ethical. One is determined by passive particiaption of the medical professional, the other requires active participation. There is a huge difference between the two. Inform yourself before you speak.
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Pehaps you should take it with whoever wrote the article, then. I don't give a damn.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Pehaps you should take it with whoever wrote the article, then. I don't give a damn.

Fuzzy
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If you don't give a damn, I suggest that you not make replies to posts in which it is only your intent to start an argument. Your the one that replied to my post, theefore, you are responsible for the discussion.

And, it doesn't surprise mea t all that you would take that attitude. You are obviosly not interested in learning anything that would increase your ability to discuss theings from an informed and logical point of view. Oh, well......they say ignorance is bliss, and you are proof positive.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Katie is already incontinent. Doubly.

Fuzzy
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And does she also suffer from prolapsed bladder? And if you would bother reading with comprehension, you will see that I never said Katie wasn't incontinent. I merely said that incontinence was a frequent complication from hysterectomy.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
No I don't want to start a new thread about assisted suicide- in case you've missed it obviously it's jillio who wants to.

Fuzzy
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Nope, you're the one that brought it up. I thought you were aware of the way in which you used langauge.:dunno2:
 
jillio said:
If you don't give a damn, I suggest that you not make replies to posts in which it is only your intent to start an argument. Your the one that replied to my post, theefore, you are responsible for the discussion.

And, it doesn't surprise mea t all that you would take that attitude. You are obviosly not interested in learning anything that would increase your ability to discuss theings from an informed and logical point of view. Oh, well......they say ignorance is bliss, and you are proof positive.
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blah blah blah blah

Fuzzy
 
jillio said:
Nope, you're the one that brought it up. I thought you were aware of the way in which you used langauge.:dunno2:
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lolol sure


And to legalize such a procedure is a step toward the practice of eugenics. Who is to make the determination of level of functioning necessary. The whole idea of passing law in support of madated surgery violates too many ethics and gives too much power ot select individuals. What's next? Making it legal to euthanize those who are in chronic pain? Making it legal for an adult offspring to order a overdose of drugs because caring for an aging parent has become a burden?
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Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
lolol sure




Fuzzy
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And, if you can understand context, my post was in reply to making it legal for a parent to request the hysterectomy without sound medical reasons for doing so, and where passing laws like that could lead. You are the one that jumped on it and started the question about where PAS was legal. I was referring to the slippery slope that is created when we pass laws of that nature, not opening a duscussion on euthanasia.

But, you once again jumped in half cocked, and without a complete understanding of the intent. You saw a word and jumped on it without understanding context. But, that is your usual modis operandi. And again with the failure to answer questions.
 
Okay, everyone, Fuzzy's sleeping. We can get back to an intelligent discussion now.
 
:giggle: I shouldn't say this but I think reading Fuzzy's posts is enough to damage our brains.
 
On a more serious note, I can see the need for PAS if you're suffering from extreme pain from a terminal illness and meds don't do anything to ease the pain. BTW, I don't really approve of it.

However, I must say if PAS is used for terminally people who do not suffer from pain, it may not be long before people think it's ok to use it on those who are unable to care for themselves or speak for themselves like the eldery woman who's unable to look after herself due to Alzheimer's disease and then I can see the profoundly MR being the next victims, etc... I'm wary of anything that hints even faintly of eguenics.
 
deafskeptic said:
I shouldn't say this but I think reading Fuzzy's posts is enough to damage our brains.
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And I shouldn't tell you this - but your brains are seriously damaged to begin with.... and those which are not yet, are just pea-sized anyway.
:giggle:

Fuzzy
 
My advisor has a quote from Nancy Pelosi on his door: "The plural form of "anecdote" isn't "data"". But........


My mom had a good friend Becky. Becky had a boy a few years younger than me with CP. He was severely mentally retarded (using as medical term, not insult). He wore diaper, used feeing tubes, couldn't talk. We coudln't communicate, so I know he didn't know sign. I don't know his communication, if any. Also he was BIG - very tall.

Becky loved her son (no name for privacy), but he needed care 24/7. Diaper changes, food tubes, medications for seizures. When he was 9 or 10 he went to foster homes because Becky had deep depression and anxiety. Biggest depression problem was worry about her son's future - who would love him, not just change the diaper, feed with tubes? Would a nursing home abuse or neglect him? Could she care for him when he is bigger?

I have no answers for Becky or about the girl in the article. I don't know every hour the struggles and worry. I never met the girl so I don't know how retarded or not, about her emotions or thinking. How to judge without knowledge really? Without information this is a debate for interest only. My single thought is: Poor mother and daughter, and I am lucky in my life with good health.
 
Severe MR is toddler functioning. Profound MR is infant functioning.
I hate it when people confuse the two terms. People think then " oh profound MR is when the kid is a vegetable".......And yes, a lot of people really have no idea how difficult it is to take care of a kid with profound mr, especially if the kid is medically fragile.
 
deafskeptic said:
On a more serious note, I can see the need for PAS if you're suffering from extreme pain from a terminal illness and meds don't do anything to ease the pain. BTW, I don't really approve of it.

However, I must say if PAS is used for terminally people who do not suffer from pain, it may not be long before people think it's ok to use it on those who are unable to care for themselves or speak for themselves like the eldery woman who's unable to look after herself due to Alzheimer's disease and then I can see the profoundly MR being the next victims, etc... I'm wary of anything that hints even faintly of eguenics.
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Actually, there are studies done from regions that have legal PAS, including Oregon, that show that when certain regulations are in place, suicide of terminally ill patients is actually decreased because pallitive care is increased. In Oregon, a patient has to request PAS from their physician 3 times before the request can be acted on. If after the first request, the physican increased the meds to provide for more pallitive care, the second and third request is not usually forthcoming. And I'm of the opinion that there are probably alot of suicides that are completed by teminally ill patients that are recorded as having been deaths from the progression of the terminal illness simply because pallitive care was not properly provided. Another restriction on PAS is that the patient must have been diagnosed with an illness that will, by the diagnosis of 3 separate physicians, result in death in 6 months or less.
 
Not again,, more bricking? whatever happen to be friendly and respect each other post? tsk...That a shame!
 
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