M. Savage calls Autistic children--BRATS!

deafdyke said:
Oceanbreeze, I did not even insistute it was even a norm. However, what I was talking about was more like......parents of average kids claiming that their kids allegdly have LD/ADD so that they can use special ed accomondations, to gain advantages. (ever hear of shopping for a diaganosis?)It does happen especially in the type of suburban districts where college admissions are cutthroat,and the parents do things like buy their kids toys that will increase their SAT scores. It's not the norm, no......but it does happen.
Heck, we saw something like that right here in Alldeaf. Remember when Jackie was whining about how her kids weren't high honor roll students with just notetakers and that's why she wanted C-Print/CART?
jillo, I so agree with you. The mainstream really isn't that great for kids with more traditional disabilties......(not just dhh kids, but blind and low vision kids or kids with other issues that aren't really LD) Heck, most teachers, including special ed teachers aren't really trained to teach kids with classic disabilites.
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:roll:
 
deafdyke said:
Oceanbreeze, I did not even insistute it was even a norm. However, what I was talking about was more like......parents of average kids claiming that their kids allegdly have LD/ADD so that they can use special ed accomondations, to gain advantages. (ever hear of shopping for a diaganosis?)It does happen especially in the type of suburban districts where college admissions are cutthroat,and the parents do things like buy their kids toys that will increase their SAT scores. It's not the norm, no......but it does happen.
Heck, we saw something like that right here in Alldeaf. Remember when Jackie was whining about how her kids weren't high honor roll students with just notetakers and that's why she wanted C-Print/CART?
jillo, I so agree with you. The mainstream really isn't that great for kids with more traditional disabilties......(not just dhh kids, but blind and low vision kids or kids with other issues that aren't really LD) Heck, most teachers, including special ed teachers aren't really trained to teach kids with classic disabilites.
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:rofl:
I am allowed to laugh as one of those classic disability kids grown old!
 
Oceanbreeze, why the roll eyes? It DOES happen. Many of my friends from college are teachers, and can tell stories that would shock you. I know its hard to believe, but it does happen, especially in suburbs where overachievement is the "norm" Don't you remember in the '90's when every kid out there had "ADD"? ADD is definitly a legitimate dx, as it has been seen in lots of kids with various and sundry nereological issues. However, it was also kinda abused by people who wanted their kids to have a label so that they could rook the system and give their kids an "edge"
Yes, I know.....strange logic, but it does happen. Ask any teacher.
 
deafdyke said:
Oceanbreeze, why the roll eyes? It DOES happen. Many of my friends from college are teachers, and can tell stories that would shock you. I know its hard to believe, but it does happen, especially in suburbs where overachievement is the "norm" Don't you remember in the '90's when every kid out there had "ADD"? ADD is definitly a legitimate dx, as it has been seen in lots of kids with various and sundry nereological issues. However, it was also kinda abused by people who wanted their kids to have a label so that they could rook the system and give their kids an "edge"
Yes, I know.....strange logic, but it does happen. Ask any teacher.
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My oldest daughter got the ADHD diagnosis as a child. It did not give her an edge or a leg up.

And believe me, as people who had had legitimate diagnoses, we wanted to avoid it and involvement in the system for our kids.
 
deafdyke said:
Oceanbreeze, why the roll eyes? It DOES happen. Many of my friends from college are teachers, and can tell stories that would shock you. I know its hard to believe, but it does happen, especially in suburbs where overachievement is the "norm" Don't you remember in the '90's when every kid out there had "ADD"? ADD is definitly a legitimate dx, as it has been seen in lots of kids with various and sundry nereological issues. However, it was also kinda abused by people who wanted their kids to have a label so that they could rook the system and give their kids an "edge"
Yes, I know.....strange logic, but it does happen. Ask any teacher.
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The fault in your logic is that spcial ed sevices will provide an averaging functioning child with an advantage. If anything, it would create a self fulfilling prophecy whereby the child would live up to lowered expectations of their academic ability.

In order to create an atmosphere whereby a child increases their performance, they must be challenged realistically, and supported when they accomplish what they have been challenged to do. We must reach above their apparent potential, not below it.

Re: diagnosis shopping: It has been my experience that those who engage in diagnosis shopping don't have their child's academic performance as a primary motive. The motive is, more often than not, a search for a professional that will medicate the child into "good behavior" and make the job of a parent easier. Special ed services are simply a by product of the orginal motive. It is the parent that needs professional assistance in this case.
 
The fault in your logic is that spcial ed sevices will provide an averaging functioning child with an advantage. If anything, it would create a self fulfilling prophecy whereby the child would live up to lowered expectations of their academic ability.
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jillo, it's not MY logic. It's the logic of parents who are trying to rook the system. Like generally, they don't claim their kids have an LD that leads to subpar academic performance. Rather, they are kids who are honor roll/AP students who have vague things like "visual/aural processing "difficulty".....basicly gobbldygook that makes it sound like they have a "real" LD, (ie like dyslexia, ADD and so on) so that they can have an edge....make sense now? Like they wouldn't have to have things like remedial time in the resource room, BUT they could take advantage of things like untimed exams due to their "processing difficulties"
 
deafdyke said:
jillo, it's not MY logic. It's the logic of parents who are trying to rook the system. Like generally, they don't claim their kids have an LD that leads to subpar academic performance. Rather, they are kids who are honor roll/AP students who have vague things like "visual/aural processing "difficulty".....basicly gobbldygook that makes it sound like they have a "real" LD, (ie like dyslexia, ADD and so on) so that they can have an edge....make sense now? Like they wouldn't have to have things like remedial time in the resource room, BUT they could take advantage of things like untimed exams due to their "processing difficulties"
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Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. In order to receive accommodation in a public school system, the child has to have an IEP. In order to have an IEP, the child must have a documented disability. Assessment is multidisciplinary.

Untimed exams are an accommodation. In order to receive any accommodation to the standard curriculum, a documented disability is necessary.
 
jillio said:
If that is the environment this child is being raised in, then it is very possible that he is, indeed, experiencing environmentally created developmental delays and could benefit from an intervention approach before he reaches kindergarten.
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Your right Jillio. It is environmentally created developmental delays. This boy was 3 years old and not potty trained and only because of his mother's laziness. She just flat out refuses to work with him and expects everyone else to do the work. If it had not been for my aunt, I believe he would now be four years old and still wearing diapers. He really is a typical normal functioning 4 year old boy. Its just the fact that his home environment can only be described as a hellhole.

But I will say this, he was placed in a pre-school program last fall while he was still 3 and over the course of the school year, he blossomed! He finally learned things like his colors, his shapes, etc. Things that three year olds should know. His speech and vocabulary improved from random cursing, to full coherent sentences.

We have since figured out that if you can get his attention, and get him to hold it for 10-15 minutes, he really does catch on to new concepts fairly quick, but like most children his age, you have to take baby steps.

He wasnt in a special ed pre-school, he was in a regular pre-school that mainstream children attend. He just needed to be in an environment that is conducive to his development.

His mother however refuses to work with him to teach him basic skills and then tries to turn around and claim that he is developmentally disabled so she can get the government to pay for his childcare in a special services program. She's also the type that sells her WIC vouchers and her foodstamp cards for cash, all the while she's lied to the government about her true living status, etc. to receive these benefits. She also sells stuff that people give her out of feeling sorry for her. Because of this, I no longer give her stuff.

Jillio, I believe you've hit this nail square on the head when you said his developmental delays were environmentally created. Now I know how to explain it to people who ask me about it.
 
Dixie said:
Your right Jillio. It is environmentally created developmental delays. This boy was 3 years old and not potty trained and only because of his mother's laziness. She just flat out refuses to work with him and expects everyone else to do the work. If it had not been for my aunt, I believe he would now be four years old and still wearing diapers. He really is a typical normal functioning 4 year old boy. Its just the fact that his home environment can only be described as a hellhole.

But I will say this, he was placed in a pre-school program last fall while he was still 3 and over the course of the school year, he blossomed! He finally learned things like his colors, his shapes, etc. Things that three year olds should know. His speech and vocabulary improved from random cursing, to full coherent sentences.

We have since figured out that if you can get his attention, and get him to hold it for 10-15 minutes, he really does catch on to new concepts fairly quick, but like most children his age, you have to take baby steps.

He wasnt in a special ed pre-school, he was in a regular pre-school that mainstream children attend. He just needed to be in an environment that is conducive to his development.

His mother however refuses to work with him to teach him basic skills and then tries to turn around and claim that he is developmentally disabled so she can get the government to pay for his childcare in a special services program. She's also the type that sells her WIC vouchers and her foodstamp cards for cash, all the while she's lied to the government about her true living status, etc. to receive these benefits. She also sells stuff that people give her out of feeling sorry for her. Because of this, I no longer give her stuff.

Jillio, I believe you've hit this nail square on the head when you said his developmental delays were environmentally created. Now I know how to explain it to people who ask me about it.
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This mother needs a wake up call!:shock:

Glad I could help you explain it. And I'm glad to hear that he is catching up the way he is!
 
jillio said:
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. In order to receive accommodation in a public school system, the child has to have an IEP. In order to have an IEP, the child must have a documented disability. Assessment is multidisciplinary.
Untimed exams are an accommodation. In order to receive any accommodation to the standard curriculum, a documented disability is necessary.
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Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to bring up the IEP. I know there has to be one. I know *I* had one, but I entered school at such a young age, I don't remember the process we (my parents and I) went through to have me enrolled.

Deafdyke, what you don't get is that despite your claims, it's NOT common. It may happen here and there, but trying to get a kid placed in special ed is a PROCESS. Any LD diagnosis, has a criterior that has to be met. I vaguely remember being tested for LDs when I was young. I remember answering a whole lot of questions, doing very boring and drawn out tasks for the examiner and so forth. If a parent willingly puts a kid through that just to get a leg up, I'd have that parent referred for Munchausen by proxy! **scarcasm**

I've been tested and retested, and I can honestly tell you, they are boring as HELL! No child is going to want to sit through them unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary!
 
Bottesini said:
My oldest daughter got the ADHD diagnosis as a child. It did not give her an edge or a leg up.

And believe me, as people who had had legitimate diagnoses, we wanted to avoid it and involvement in the system for our kids.
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Exactly! Having ADD or ADHD does NOT give you a leg up. All it does is create problems for the kid.
 
oceanbreeze, jillo etc

Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. In order to receive accommodation in a public school system, the child has to have an IEP. In order to have an IEP, the child must have a documented disability. Assessment is multidisciplinary.

Untimed exams are an accommodation. In order to receive any accommodation to the standard curriculum, a documented disability is necessary.
Click to expand...
Yes I know..........I know that VERY well. I've had an IEP since I was three years old. I am a foaming at the mouth disabilty rights activist as a matter of fact. However, there IS abuse in the system. Ever hear of dx shopping? Ever hear about those pyschologists who will just slap a label on a kid b/c they claim that they are "ADD"? One of my friend's father's a psychologist, and she said it was VERY common for people to come in and pretty much demand an "ADD" dx. It's not too common thank Maude.....Well I think it depends. It is common in some school systems....I remember someone in a class I took, saying that ALL the kids who had IEPs in his class where he was a paraprofessional (or something like that) were pretty much high honor kids....the only one who didn't have an IEP who needed one, was this blind girl. I do remember back in the 90's there was a HUGE fuss in the news about students who were "shopping" for dx so they could get an IEP so they could get things like untimed exams etc.
Besides, we saw this right here in alldeaf, with Jackie trying to get her kids high honor role accomondations, even though they were doing REALLY well by ANYONE's defintion. I honestly think some posters here don't realize how cutthroat some parents can be with their kids' academic acheivement. Seriously........It's not TOO common, but it has been seen, and enough so that it actually made the news.
 
deafdyke said:
oceanbreeze, jillo etc

Yes I know..........I know that VERY well. I've had an IEP since I was three years old. I am a foaming at the mouth disabilty rights activist as a matter of fact. However, there IS abuse in the system. Ever hear of dx shopping? Ever hear about those pyschologists who will just slap a label on a kid b/c they claim that they are "ADD"? One of my friend's father's a psychologist, and she said it was VERY common for people to come in and pretty much demand an "ADD" dx. It's not too common thank Maude.....Well I think it depends. It is common in some school systems....I remember someone in a class I took, saying that ALL the kids who had IEPs in his class where he was a paraprofessional (or something like that) were pretty much high honor kids....the only one who didn't have an IEP who needed one, was this blind girl. I do remember back in the 90's there was a HUGE fuss in the news about students who were "shopping" for dx so they could get an IEP so they could get things like untimed exams etc.
Besides, we saw this right here in alldeaf, with Jackie trying to get her kids high honor role accomondations, even though they were doing REALLY well by ANYONE's defintion. I honestly think some posters here don't realize how cutthroat some parents can be with their kids' academic acheivement. Seriously........It's not TOO common, but it has been seen, and enough so that it actually made the news.
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The difference being that jackie's kids actually did have a disability, she didn't have to "shop" for a diagnosis.

Untimed exams are not a standard accommodation. It is written in only for certain disabilities.

Any psychologist that resorts to giving a diagnosis simply because a parent demands it needs to be reported. And psychological assessment isn't the only criteria that decides accommodation. Plus, federal law states that a child must be re-assessed every three years in order to continue to receive accommodations.

It is far more common that children who actually need accommodation are not being properly served than children who don't need accommodation are receiving them.

As far as what the person in your class said about IEPs and the kids being served under them...unless he had access to all the records, assessments, and evaluations, and was able to interpret them properly, he was talking out of his hat. A paraprofessional does not have that access, nor are they qualified to interpret test and assessment results.
 
jillio said:
The difference being that jackie's kids actually did have a disability, she didn't have to "shop" for a diagnosis.

Untimed exams are not a standard accommodation. It is written in only for certain disabilities.

Any psychologist that resorts to giving a diagnosis simply because a parent demands it needs to be reported. And psychological assessment isn't the only criteria that decides accommodation. Plus, federal law states that a child must be re-assessed every three years in order to continue to receive accommodations.

It is far more common that children who actually need accommodation are not being properly served than children who don't need accommodation are receiving them.

As far as what the person in your class said about IEPs and the kids being served under them...unless he had access to all the records, assessments, and evaluations, and was able to interpret them properly, he was talking out of his hat. A paraprofessional does not have that access, nor are they qualified to interpret test and assessment results.
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Thank you! :gpost:

Deafdyke, Stop arguing what you *think* you know. It's getting tiresome.
 
Banjo said:
Firing him isn't really the answer to the problem. He was being pretty ignorant. An education on autism is what he need.
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100% agreed!
it honestly aggravates me when people are so negative and think they can just say anything, while being uneducated about the subject/topic.
 
jillo, believe it or not I agree with you...mostly. I mean it is hard to say whether or not the system is being abused. I think the bigger problem with special ed is that it tends to be a dumping ground for kids who are very apathetic towards learning, and are just placed there b/c there's no other place for them. It just makes me mad when I hear about parents trying to misuse the system just so wittle Smashlie can go to Prestigious University. However, it is quite possible that when this problem reared its head, the school districts that were seeing this, cracked down on that sort of stuff.
It did seem to be mostly happening in really high achiever type suburbs. (the type where everyone has to go to Prestigious University)
 
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