M. Savage calls Autistic children--BRATS!

jillio said:
And far prior to 1993, there was a correlation seen between diet and symptomology of ADD/ADHD.
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I'm not disagreeing; just providing the information. His book focused on healthy nutrition for children.
 
I dont agree with his statements about autistic children being brats, and I was unaware of his book. I was simply making note of ADD/ADHD and diet while we touched on the subject.

If it sounded like I was siding with him, I was not.
 
Dixie said:
I dont agree with his statements about autistic children being brats, and I was unaware of his book. I was simply making note of ADD/ADHD and diet while we touched on the subject.

If it sounded like I was siding with him, I was not.
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I didn't read it as if you were siding with him.
 
You know. I don't agree with Savage............BUT, he might be talking more about the types of parents who misuse sped resources b/c they want their kids to have a leg up somehow. I disagree with him painting ALL kids with disabilites with the same brush. Yes, some kids with "autism"/"add"/whatever the latest trendy dx is are simply brats, but most kids with various and sundry disabilites have legitmate issues.
 
deafdyke said:
You know. I don't agree with Savage............BUT, he might be talking more about the types of parents who misuse sped resources b/c they want their kids to have a leg up somehow. I disagree with him painting ALL kids with disabilites with the same brush. Yes, some kids with "autism"/"add"/whatever the latest trendy dx is are simply brats, but most kids with various and sundry disabilites have legitmate issues.
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Where do you get your information? I don't know of any parent who misuses Sped resources. If anything, the OPPOSITE is true. Most parents want their kid mainstreamed, and would do anything to see that that happens; even at the expense of their kids!
 
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You know, Here I'm thinking about how loosely the term "brats" comes in play. I mean, sure there are misdiagnosis to a lot of cases that are presented out there but really, was it necessary to label them as a "brat"? That was crossing the line.

While I can understand that there are a lot of loose ends which has been passed around but still, there could have been a better term to come to this rather than saying all of them are brats.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Where do you get your information? I don't know of any parent who misuses Sped resources. If anything, the OPPOSITE is true. Most parents want their kid mainstreamed, and would do anything to see that that happens; even at the expense of their kids!
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I agree with you, Oceanbreeze.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Where do you get your information? I don't know of any parent who misuses Sped resources. If anything, the OPPOSITE is true. Most parents want their kid mainstreamed, and would do anything to see that that happens; even at the expense of their kids!
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:gpost: Special Ed resources certainly don't give a kid a leg up, either.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Where do you get your information? I don't know of any parent who misuses Sped resources. If anything, the OPPOSITE is true. Most parents want their kid mainstreamed, and would do anything to see that that happens; even at the expense of their kids!
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You would be surprised Oceanbreeze. I have a cousin-by-marriage whom I do not think very highly of to begin with that is trying to get her son enrolled into a special services program for disabled/developmentally challenged children when there is nothing wrong with her son. He is a typical active 4 year old boy. Why is she trying to get him into this program? Because it is free and she will have to pay NOTHING. She sees it as free daycare. She was even going so far as to convince one of the workers there to skew his testing results to be LOWER than average so he could get in the special needs program.

This is a fantastic service those who truly need it and otherwise would not be able to receive these services, but sadly there are those who abuse it.

We have since started watching her actions and attitudes more closely and we suspect child neglect/endangerment, and possibly abuse going on in the home, but when we report it we don't want it to be missed so we are taking note of everything that goes on and making sure we have sufficient evidence so when we do report it, that the children are removed from her care for good. This woman is a nutcase and really shouldnt even be around children to begin with.
 
Dixie said:
You would be surprised Oceanbreeze. I have a cousin-by-marriage whom I do not think very highly of to begin with that is trying to get her son enrolled into a special services program for disabled/developmentally challenged children when there is nothing wrong with her son. He is a typical active 4 year old boy. Why is she trying to get him into this program? Because it is free and she will have to pay NOTHING. She sees it as free daycare. She was even going so far as to convince one of the workers there to skew his testing results to be LOWER than average so he could get in the special needs program.

This is a fantastic service those who truly need it and otherwise would not be able to receive these services, but sadly there are those who abuse it.

We have since started watching her actions and attitudes more closely and we suspect child neglect/endangerment, and possibly abuse going on in the home, but when we report it we don't want it to be missed so we are taking note of everything that goes on and making sure we have sufficient evidence so when we do report it, that the children are removed from her care for good. This woman is a nutcase and really shouldnt even be around children to begin with.
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I'll take your word for it. But, this sounds like an extreme situation. I honestly can't see this happening as a "norm" the way the other poster made it sound. Can it happen? Yes. Does it happen? Probably. Does it happen frequently? I really doubt it.

On a personal note, Dixie, I sincerely hope you nail her to the wall. If what you suspect is proven true, then she has no business raising kids!
 
I know it is not the norm - but then again this woman is NOT normal by any means. She's a nutcase. It is people like her that tend to make it harder for everyone else.
 
jillio said:
:gpost: Special Ed resources certainly don't give a kid a leg up, either.
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I disagree. I was mainstreamed Kindergarten through 6th grade. I had a very good speech therapist and lots and lots of tutoring in English and Math through the Special Ed program at the public school I went to. They were truly top-of-the-line and sadly, the public schools in my hometown have declined in the past 10 years.

It's a myth that Special Ed does not help out disabled children. It all depends on how the school district funds Special Ed programs and how they execute those programs.

What I did notice at Austine when I transferred is that the education was inferior to what I had gotten in the public school. I still went anyway and I don't regret it because otherwise, I would not know ASL or have any Deaf friends.
 
jillio said:
:gpost: Special Ed resources certainly don't give a kid a leg up, either.
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This will make you laugh (or cry). I was the product of BOTH. For the first four years of my educational "life", I was in Sped. I started school at age 4. They may have done testing, but I'm not sure. I was so young I honestly don't remember, but I was labelled "retarded" simply because I am hydrocephalic and medical literature indicate(ed) that I would be retarded or at best severely LD. Turned out, they were WRONG. My Mother fought the school system, but it took her FOUR years to get me into an educational system best suited for my near-normal intelligence. But, guess what that meant? You guessed it! Mainstreaming.

I was behind academically because in the Sped placement, I wasn't being tought with the standard curriculum. I really wasn't being tought at ALL. I happened to learn what I did from tutors sent to my home during the times I had to have surgery. I managed to learn to read, write my name, count, and add simply numbers, but was I ready for third or fourth grade? No. As it was, they said I'd have to repeat third grade. I repeated third grade, and seemed on track academically, but I struggled. When I reached fourth grade, I was finally Dx'ed "learning disabled". This really means I have ADD. It just wasn't called that back in 1977. Anyway, long story short, I struggled all through school socially and academically. I honestly think and feel the entire educational system is broken. I think most SPed services stink and I think total inclusion for most people like myself and d/hh kids stinks, too.

I really am glad to see that for the deaf/Hoh child that at least there's programs like BiBi out there. For someone like myself (hearing, but disabled), the system is STILL very broken.

As for what the one poster said about misuse of services, I still can't see that being the norm simply because "services" in the mainstream are so sparce, it's hard to parcel out what's there to the person in need; much less to the person trying to monkey around with the system.
 
BradB08 said:
I disagree. I was mainstreamed Kindergarten through 6th grade. I had a very good speech therapist and lots and lots of tutoring in English and Math through the Special Ed program at the public school I went to. They were truly top-of-the-line and sadly, the public schools in my hometown have declined in the past 10 years.

It's a myth that Special Ed does not help out disabled children. It all depends on how the school district funds Special Ed programs and how they execute those programs.

What I did notice at Austine when I transferred is that the education was inferior to what I had gotten in the public school. I still went anyway and I don't regret it because otherwise, I would not know ASL or have any Deaf friends.
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I did not say that Secial Ed services did not help those children with disabilities that need special services or accommodation. What I said was, placing a average functioning child without a disability in a special ed classroom will not provide them with an academic advantage. A child will work up to the expectations of the teacher and the performance level of their classmates. To place an average functioning (or above) child into a special ed classroom is to reduce the challenge and therefore, will create a self fulfilling prophecy that will reduce their academic functioning.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
This will make you laugh (or cry). I was the product of BOTH. For the first four years of my educational "life", I was in Sped. I started school at age 4. They may have done testing, but I'm not sure. I was so young I honestly don't remember, but I was labelled "retarded" simply because I am hydrocephalic and medical literature indicate(ed) that I would be retarded or at best severely LD. Turned out, they were WRONG. My Mother fought the school system, but it took her FOUR years to get me into an educational system best suited for my near-normal intelligence. But, guess what that meant? You guessed it! Mainstreaming.

I was behind academically because in the Sped placement, I wasn't being tought with the standard curriculum. I really wasn't being tought at ALL. I happened to learn what I did from tutors sent to my home during the times I had to have surgery. I managed to learn to read, write my name, count, and add simply numbers, but was I ready for third or fourth grade? No. As it was, they said I'd have to repeat third grade. I repeated third grade, and seemed on track academically, but I struggled. When I reached fourth grade, I was finally Dx'ed "learning disabled". This really means I have ADD. It just wasn't called that back in 1977. Anyway, long story short, I struggled all through school socially and academically. I honestly think and feel the entire educational system is broken. I think most SPed services stink and I think total inclusion for most people like myself and d/hh kids stinks, too.

I really am glad to see that for the deaf/Hoh child that at least there's programs like BiBi out there. For someone like myself (hearing, but disabled), the system is STILL very broken.

As for what the one poster said about misuse of services, I still can't see that being the norm simply because "services" in the mainstream are so sparce, it's hard to parcel out what's there to the person in need; much less to the person trying to monkey around with the system.
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I understand exctly where you are coming from. One of my main complaints with placing deaf/hoh kids into a special ed environment is that the vast majority are not in need of special ed services as they are intellectually average or above average. They simply need proper classroom accomodation.

Re: the misuse of services: in order for a child to be served under the umbrella of special ed int he public school system, there has to be an IEP. In order for a child to have an IEP, there has to be a documented disability that warrants special education services. Documentation includes a battery of assessments from both the school system in the form of psychological/intelligence testing, as well as supporting medical documentation and the assessment of outside professionals. It is difficult enough to get the child that needs services in the proper environment and with all the support services they need. To get a non-disabled child served under an IEP would be next to impossible. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it is certainly not a frequently occurring thing.
 
Dixie said:
You would be surprised Oceanbreeze. I have a cousin-by-marriage whom I do not think very highly of to begin with that is trying to get her son enrolled into a special services program for disabled/developmentally challenged children when there is nothing wrong with her son. He is a typical active 4 year old boy. Why is she trying to get him into this program? Because it is free and she will have to pay NOTHING. She sees it as free daycare. She was even going so far as to convince one of the workers there to skew his testing results to be LOWER than average so he could get in the special needs program.

This is a fantastic service those who truly need it and otherwise would not be able to receive these services, but sadly there are those who abuse it.

We have since started watching her actions and attitudes more closely and we suspect child neglect/endangerment, and possibly abuse going on in the home, but when we report it we don't want it to be missed so we are taking note of everything that goes on and making sure we have sufficient evidence so when we do report it, that the children are removed from her care for good. This woman is a nutcase and really shouldnt even be around children to begin with.
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If that is the environment this child is being raised in, then it is very possible that he is, indeed, experiencing environmentally created developmental delays and could benefit from an intervention approach before he reaches kindergarten.
 
Jolie77 said:
Ooooh, I am not liking this one bit at all! :pissed:

He needs a reality check. Oh, I wish I could make him take my place and he will exactly know how it is to handle a child with autism because it is not an easy task to do, but u know what? That guy is taking everything for granted and he doesn't know what he is missing out. To me, a child with autism are not BRATS, They are difficult, yes but they are SPECIAL too!

So, yeah, I'm very outraged by that comment and it was uncalled for. Not every child is misdiagnosed but at least we are getting the education for it and learning as we go along.
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when i read it few wks ago and was pissed off too..he need spend time with our son and see what he can learn from it
 
Liebling:-))) said:
:gpost: I speak out of my experience because I myself have a ADD son. He is not a brat but ADD. We work together with therapies to help him and spend our time on him when he was a little boy. Now he is a teenager and his ADD behavior didn´t show for long time now. people really have no idea what they are saying...
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Myself have adhd.. my and jolie77s 2nd son have it too.. but notice he is more calmer than before since he have actives like taking karate classes etc..
 
don't know of any parent who misuses Sped resources. If anything, the OPPOSITE is true. Most parents want their kid mainstreamed, and would do anything to see that that happens; even at the expense of their kids
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Oceanbreeze, I did not even insistute it was even a norm. However, what I was talking about was more like......parents of average kids claiming that their kids allegdly have LD/ADD so that they can use special ed accomondations, to gain advantages. (ever hear of shopping for a diaganosis?)It does happen especially in the type of suburban districts where college admissions are cutthroat,and the parents do things like buy their kids toys that will increase their SAT scores. It's not the norm, no......but it does happen.
Heck, we saw something like that right here in Alldeaf. Remember when Jackie was whining about how her kids weren't high honor roll students with just notetakers and that's why she wanted C-Print/CART?
jillo, I so agree with you. The mainstream really isn't that great for kids with more traditional disabilties......(not just dhh kids, but blind and low vision kids or kids with other issues that aren't really LD) Heck, most teachers, including special ed teachers aren't really trained to teach kids with classic disabilites.
 
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