Lies about CI's

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rockdrummer said:
I don't see any lack of respect. She is making a valid point. The deaf perspective and experience is as diverse as the deaf community itself.
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I agree....on all counts.
 
jillio said:
The division here is between hearing parents who think they know what deafness is all about simply because they have a child who is deaf, and the people who have lived all of their lives with deafness. The hearing parents would do well to pay attention to the real experts on deafness, and stop spending so much time trying to find a way around the fact that their child is deaf and has much in common with the deaf adults on this forum.

I see a lot of issues.
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Wrong. The division here is because of the division in what deaf people share their experiences as. The only constant is inconsistency.
 
rockdrummer said:
I don't see any lack of respect. She is making a valid point. The deaf perspective and experience is as diverse as the deaf community itself.
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Of course you don't see it. You are still looking at the situation from your own hearing perspective. That is why you think her point is valid.

Yes, there is a variety of experience in the deaf community. But they all share certain similarities. And they are saying the exact same things that I am saying. With the exception of perhaps one, but that is a different issue altogether. There are oral deaf, there are signing deaf, there are public school graduates, there are deaf school graduates, there are those that use oral communication, there are those that perfer ASL. AND THEY ARE ALL SAYING THE SAME THINGS. It is the hearing parents that are disagreeing. Think about it.
 
jillio said:
Of course you don't see it. You are still looking at the situation from your own hearing perspective. That is why you think her point is valid.

Yes, there is a variety of experience in the deaf community. But they all share certain similarities. And they are saying the exact same things that I am saying. With the exception of perhaps one, but that is a different issue altogether. There are oral deaf, there are signing deaf, there are public school graduates, there are deaf school graduates, there are those that use oral communication, there are those that perfer ASL. AND THEY ARE ALL SAYING THE SAME THINGS. It is the hearing parents that are disagreeing. Think about it.
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More half baked conclusions.
 
GrendelQ said:
1. wrong: I was not discussing native language (my daughter's native language would have been Mandarin -- different from her natural language). I was discussing natural language.

2. exposure is a critical component of what make a language natural, and goes hand in hand with access to a language (that's where mode factors in).
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No, you were discussing language development. A natural language is one that has developed naturally to suit the needs of the population using it. Mandarin is a natural lanuguage as it is a dialect that developed naturally within a particular region. ASL is a natural language. American English is a natural language. PSE is a contact language, not a natural language.

Linguistically, and practically, you are still wrong. But I am done with trying to educate you. You refuse to expand your knowledge.
 
jillio said:
The division here is between hearing parents who think they know what deafness is all about simply because they have a child who is deaf, and the people who have lived all of their lives with deafness. The hearing parents would do well to pay attention to the real experts on deafness, and stop spending so much time trying to find a way around the fact that their child is deaf and has much in common with the deaf adults on this forum.

I see a lot of issues.
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Look in the mirror. You are denying a significant component of the deaf community because you took one path, and others have taken another. There are many opinions out there and in here, from professionals and those who live with deafness. You treat your opinion, your single experience with raising your deaf child 20 years ago as dogma, and breathe fire on anyone who questions, or even acknowledges it as a fine truth, but takes an adapted approach based on what our children face today.
 
GrendelQ said:
Look in the mirror. You are denying a significant component of the deaf community because you took one path, and others have taken another. There are many opinions out there and in here, from professionals and those who live with deafness. You treat your opinion, your single experience with raising your deaf child 20 years ago as dogma, and breathe fire on anyone who questions, or even acknowledges it as a fine truth, but takes an adapted approach based on what our children face today.
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I'm denying nothing. But you most certainly are deep in denial. Let's hope you get some help with that eventually.

It isn't my experience I'm citing. It is the experience of deaf adults on this forum and the experience of deaf children I still see on a daily basis. The individual can adapt without intervention from those who feel the need to tell them how to adapt. It is a natural process. Stop interfering with it, and encourage and support it.

So I raised my son 20 years ago? What does that have to do with anything? You really think that the new technology (read CI) is going to change deafness? Again, you can't solve a problem with the same mind that created it. (Einstein). Do you understand at all what that means?

An adapted approach? Adaptation belongs to the individual, not to society or industry.
 
jillio said:
So, you are saying that it can't be applied. Then why did you post it?
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No you suggested it was not relevant. I posted it because I believe it is and you re-enforced that by referring to it in discussing your point.
 
jillio said:
The division here is between hearing parents who think they know what deafness is all about simply because they have a child who is deaf, and the people who have lived all of their lives with deafness. The hearing parents would do well to pay attention to the real experts on deafness, and stop spending so much time trying to find a way around the fact that their child is deaf and has much in common with the deaf adults on this forum.

I see a lot of issues.
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Huh? We are just debating on the phrase "Natural Language", that's all.... it doesn't really have anything to do with how to raise a deaf child.

My personal opinion about the natural language is.... who cares? It is not black and white. Forget about ASL vs spoken English for a second. People here are convinced that ASL is a "natural language" for the deaf. One reason for it is because deaf people are visual learners. Makes sense right? Well, this would mean SEE is ALSO a "natural language" for the deaf, right? Now, this is when people will come in and say "No its not because of the syntax/spatial/another 's' word." So this would mean only ASL is a "natural language" for the deaf because of the visual aspect as well as the syntax aspect. In this case...

This means written English is NOT a natural written language for the deaf.

So why bother arguing whether a language is natural? Should it even affect your choices as a parent? NATURAL DOES NOT MEAN ACCESSIBLE.
 
Bottesini said:
Grendel has as much right as anyone to express her opinion.
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I agree. She has the right to express her experiences and knowledge on raising her deaf daughter. To insinuate or indirectly allude to the idea that she doesn't know what she is doing in so many words is rather disgusting.
 
kokonut said:
I agree. She has the right to express her experiences and knowledge on raising her deaf daughter. To insinuate or indirectly allude to the idea that she doesn't know what she is doing in so many words is rather disgusting.
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yes and it's also disrespectful.
 
deafgal001 said:
I know what she doing. It has nothing to do with her opinion.
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Ahh, in a way, this is true, I do have several opinions that I'm not putting down in writing. :lol:
 
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