Legal Showdown - Arizona's Immigration Law

[Steinhauer]

to them - it doesn't. to us - it does. so what do we do with the illegals we catch? do whatever we wish to them like imprisoning them for as long as we want since you believed them entering here illegally trumped our laws?

or should we do it as according to our immigration laws which is deporting them back?

which one do you prefer? I'd prefer if you answer my question instead of giving me a run-around

I will **respectfully** answer your question.

It IS NOT the fault of taxpayers for fumbling the ball on immigration law. Yet, it was taxpayers that paid the $145,000 for an illegal (whom, in my opinion, deserved deportation, nothing more, nothing less).

It was NOT the fault of the arresting and holding agency for fumbling the ball on immigration law. They did their job, another **Federal** agency did not.

So ... when a Federal agency fails to do their job, why are taxpayers punished and illegals rewarded?

Do you not see a huge problem with that picture? What do you suggest **should** have happened in that incident?

(Answering your question with a question).

 

[Steinhauer]

then they should have followed the law. it is illegal to detain ANYONE beyond the time limit unless you're enemy combatant - a terrorist (declared by POTUS)

"You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're
up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful
gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers,
but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no
way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power
to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals,
one makes them. Once declares so many things to be a crime that it
becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a
nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But
just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor
objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers---and
then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system...that's the game, and
once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with."

- Ayn Rand

 

[Jiro]

I will **respectfully** answer your question.

It IS NOT the fault of taxpayers for fumbling the ball on immigration law. Yet, it was taxpayers that paid the $145,000 for an illegal (whom, in my opinion, deserved deportation, nothing more, nothing less).

It was NOT the fault of the arresting and holding agency for fumbling the ball on immigration law. They did their job, another **Federal** agency did not.

So ... when a Federal agency fails to do their job, why are taxpayers punished and illegals rewarded?

Do you not see a huge problem with that picture? What do you suggest **should** have happened in that incident?

(Answering your question with a question).

then what do you suggest? an immediate action on every single case?

boy don't you wish we have that kind of perfect world where every companies, government, etc. would respond to every single call we make?

*call city - there's a pothole*
*city - no problem! done! it will be fixed in an hour!*

:roll:

 

[TXgolfer]

Hmm. How about we deport as the law says.

Expensive? Yes

But we give tons of money to Mexico every year. We could just say....ok from now on when we deport an illegal immigrant the cost comes out of the aid we promised. We might actually get some help from Mexico protecting that border.

 

[Jiro]

Hmm. How about we deport as the law says.

Expensive? Yes

But we give tons of money to Mexico every year. We could just say....ok from now on when we deport an illegal immigrant the cost comes out of the aid we promised. We might actually get some help from Mexico protecting that border.

Mexico can't help us or themselves if a huge portion of government and its police are corrupted and tied to drug business..... like NYPD back in 1970's. There was a serious crackdown and about 75% of NYPD's drug force was found corrupted.

It's sad to see that Mexico had to bring in army to do police duty because they do not trust their own police and also to arrest police officers

 

[TXgolfer]

They could bring their military to the border. We should have ours there as well.

Corrupt police in Mexico is not a new problem. It has been that way for a long time.

Sanctions against Mexico would help IMO. Wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[Jiro]

They could bring their military to the border. We should have ours there as well.

Corrupt police in Mexico is not a new problem. It has been that way for a long time.

They are - drug war. Their priority is combating with violent drug people, not illegals sneaking away to USA to make a few extra bucks.

Sanctions against Mexico would help IMO. Wouldn't hurt to try.

for what? Mexican government is doing nothing illegal against USA.

 

[TXgolfer]

They are - drug war. Their priority is combating with violent drug people, not illegals sneaking away to USA.


for what? Mexican government is doing nothing illegal against USA.

No they are not doing anything illegal......But we are not legally required to help them either. Personally I say we stop helping them until they start helping us. Their attempts at a drug war have been a joke.

With the amount of corruption in the Mexican government, our money would be better spent sealing the border with troops than helping Mexico. Let them hash it out.

 

[kokonut]

No they are not doing anything illegal......But we are not legally required to help them either. Personally I say we stop helping them until they start helping us. Their attempts at a drug war have been a joke.

With the amount of corruption in the Mexican government, our money would be better spent sealing the border with troops than helping Mexico. Let them hash it out.

And the crowd goes wild....

Yahhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[Jiro]

No they are not doing anything illegal......But we are not legally required to help them either. Personally I say we stop helping them until they start helping us. Their attempts at a drug war have been a joke.

a joke? Are you sure you want to say that especially since we're failing miserably in our own country? I mean... look at our escalating DUI and drug crimes. It is our Drug War that is making it worse for everybody - and for other countries. After all... America is #1 drug customer. it's a simple business opportunity for others.

With the amount of corruption in the Mexican government, our money would be better spent sealing the border with troops than helping Mexico. Let them hash it out.

Here's what happens - because of unexpected and unforeseeable event - the drug business just got bigger and well-funded. Mexico did not have money to "hash it out" so we gave them funds and training to hash it out. Now their problem just got bigger when our drug addiction got much bigger.

so..... first - fix our drug problem at our homeland... then that will fix majority of Mexican's problems.

Look at our drug laws.... and then look at other well-developed nations' drug laws. Tell me which one is ridiculous.

 

[Jiro]

And now the crowd goes ooooooooooooo snap!

 

[TXgolfer]

a joke? Are you sure you want to say that especially since we're failing miserably in our own country? I mean... look at our escalating DUI and drug crimes. It is our Drug War that is making it worse for everybody - and for other countries. After all... America is #1 drug customer. it's a simple business opportunity for others.


Here's what happens - because of unexpected and unforeseeable event - the drug business just got bigger and well-funded. Mexico did not have money to "hash it out" so we gave them funds and training to hash it out. Now their problem just got bigger when our drug addiction got much bigger.

so..... first - fix our drug problem at our homeland... then that will fix majority of Mexican's problems.

Sealing the border helps with our drug problem.......Cuts off a large part of the supply.

I agree our war on drugs is a joke too. Another good reason to cut off Mexico.....and many other countries. We can start spending OUR money on OUR problems rather than other people's problems.

IF our drug use was creating the problems in Mexico the answer for them would be simple. Put the military on the border and don't let it get through.

IF their military needs more training send them here.....cheaper for us plus we are assured that OUR money goes to training and not corrupt officials. Then, as compensation.....require that Mexican soldiers trained here must be on border guard duty for one year.

 

[Foxrac]

a joke? Are you sure you want to say that especially since we're failing miserably in our own country? I mean... look at our escalating DUI and drug crimes. It is our Drug War that is making it worse for everybody - and for other countries. After all... America is #1 drug customer. it's a simple business opportunity for others.


Here's what happens - because of unexpected and unforeseeable event - the drug business just got bigger and well-funded. Mexico did not have money to "hash it out" so we gave them funds and training to hash it out. Now their problem just got bigger when our drug addiction got much bigger.

so..... first - fix our drug problem at our homeland... then that will fix majority of Mexican's problems.

Look at our drug laws.... and then look at other well-developed nations' drug laws. Tell me which one is ridiculous.

The drug law in US is more ridiculous than in developed European nations, is it right?

 

[Jiro]

Sealing the border helps with our drug problem.......Cuts off a large part of the supply.

I agree our war on drugs is a joke too. Another good reason to cut off Mexico.....and many other countries. We can start spending OUR money on OUR problems rather than other people's problems.

The budget we allocated for Mexico is a dwarf compared to our budget for domestic drug problem.

IF our drug use was creating the problems in Mexico the answer for them would be simple. Put the military on the border and don't let it get through.

the whole 2,000 miles of Mexico-USA border? We can't even build the Great Wall of USA!

IF their military needs more training send them here.....cheaper for us plus we are assured that OUR money goes to training and not corrupt officials. Then, as compensation.....require that Mexican soldiers trained here must be on border guard duty for one year.

send them here? what for?

it's much more economical to send a couple of experts there to train hundreds of them at their boot camps. However - most of experts are private - kinda like Blackwater consultant. Beside, that's what we have been doing for centuries. what you think what Green Beret does? What did you think why USA trained Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein?

 

[Jiro]

The drug law in US is more ridiculous than in developed European nations, is it right?

yes. we're spending billions billions billions and yet - our drug crimes are still rising and rising.... whereas in Europe - they spent a small buck to enforce the drug laws and their drug crimes & problems are still much smaller than ours.

something's wrong with this picture!

 

[Foxrac]

yes. we're spending billions billions billions and yet - our drug crimes are still rising and rising.... whereas in Europe - they spent a small buck to enforce the drug laws and their drug crimes & problems are still much smaller than ours.

something's wrong with this picture!

Oh yup, I think about overcrowded prisons in US is biggest problem because of too many convicted in illegal drugs.

This law need reform so badly and I don't want strain much of taxpayers on prisoners.

 

[Jiro]

Mexican. Colombian. They received significant and invaluable military assistance/training/fund from us (but notice this - the fund we provided for them is a penny compared to how much we spent on our domestic issue such as legal costs, incarceration costs, domestic drug operations, drug-free campaign, etc). Together - we combated against drug cartels by bombing, raiding, burning drug sites like marijuana farm, drug factories, drug lord's mansions, etc. We spent $19 billion in 2003.

This illegal immigration problem is a clever smokescreen for our drug problem. You will see that when it comes to real solid math and truth... our illegal immigration problem is actually not as bad as you think. It's minuscule compared to our drug problems.

This Arizona's immigration law is a farce. It's a desperate attempt to revive the Republican Party for 2012 Presidential Election. same old fear tactic - terrorism. illegals. socialism. they're out there to kill you and rape your women. :roll:

 

[jillio]

"You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're
up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful
gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers,
but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no
way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power
to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals,
one makes them. Once declares so many things to be a crime that it
becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a
nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But
just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor
objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers---and
then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system...that's the game, and
once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with."

- Ayn Rand

I find anyone who quotes Ayn Rand as support of a position to be less than credible, and quite disturbing to boot.

 

[jillio]

Mexican. Colombian. They received significant and invaluable military assistance/training/fund from us (but notice this - the fund we provided for them is a penny compared to how much we spent on our domestic issue such as legal costs, incarceration costs, domestic drug operations, drug-free campaign, etc). Together - we combated against drug cartels by bombing, raiding, burning drug sites like marijuana farm, drug factories, drug lord's mansions, etc. We spent $19 billion in 2003.

This illegal immigration problem is a clever smokescreen for our drug problem. You will see that when it comes to real solid math and truth... our illegal immigration problem is actually not as bad as you think. It's minuscule compared to our drug problems.
This Arizona's immigration law is a farce. It's a desperate attempt to revive the Republican Party for 2012 Presidential Election. same old fear tactic - terrorism. illegals. socialism. they're out there to kill you and rape your women. :roll:

True enough. And agreed with that last paragraph as well. Just another attempt to play on people's fears to win an election. And, judging from some of the posts I see in this thread, there are those that are falling for the old trick, too.

 

[deafskeptic]

Mexican. Colombian. They received significant and invaluable military assistance/training/fund from us (but notice this - the fund we provided for them is a penny compared to how much we spent on our domestic issue such as legal costs, incarceration costs, domestic drug operations, drug-free campaign, etc). Together - we combated against drug cartels by bombing, raiding, burning drug sites like marijuana farm, drug factories, drug lord's mansions, etc. We spent $19 billion in 2003.

This illegal immigration problem is a clever smokescreen for our drug problem. You will see that when it comes to real solid math and truth... our illegal immigration problem is actually not as bad as you think. It's minuscule compared to our drug problems.

This Arizona's immigration law is a farce. It's a desperate attempt to revive the Republican Party for 2012 Presidential Election. same old fear tactic - terrorism. illegals. socialism. they're out there to kill you and rape your women. :roll:

Well said. I hadn't thought about it from this angle but it does make sense.