Law Requires Ultrasound Before Abortion

netrox said:
You are mistaken to think that a fetus is not a baby. It's a baby albiet not born yet.

To say that 8 weeks fetus is just a blob is inaccurate. It's clearly distinctively human.

Abortion is gore but it doesn't mean it's always wrong.

Slaughter of animals is always gore but it doesn't mean we are not allowed to slaughter them.
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No, that's more rhetorical slop. A fetus is not an "unborn baby" any more than an egg is an "unseminated unborn baby".
 
Aleser said:
Yes... women have fun having sex. Sex, if you're wondering, is a natural urge that most of the planet feels.

The whole "women should TAKE RESPONSIBILITY if they SPREAD THEIR LEGS" spiel that pro-lifers or so called "pro choice, BUT"-ers spew is horrible in so many ways. It demonizes women for having sex (which is what people are, largely, wired to do) and negates the fact that abortion IS taking responsibility for the pregnancy.

It isn't about -taking responsibility- to you people, its about punishing women for being sexual beings, whether you admit it or not.
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This. So many times, this.

:ty: :ty:
 
KarissaMann05 said:
Indeed. That is why there are more BCs. Not just condoms.
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Its a good thing that even two forms of birth control can fail, right?

Again, you're going back to "women should only have sex certain ways or in certain conditions or else they got what was coming to them!" - and that's so much more wrong than just being "pro life" in itself. Like women are "at fault" if they don't have safer sex, or heck, if they have sex at all, and they're "innocent" if they get raped in the right circumstances- no drinking or short skirts, girls, because you probably deserve to get raped and pregnant then. :roll:

It isn't your place to decide what level of risk of pregnancy is acceptable for any woman, or to decide they "ought" to be punished with carrying a pregnancy to term if they can't/dont want to use BC, or BC fails for them.
 
Aleser said:
Have you seen an eight-week embryo? I have. It doesn't look anything like a human. Have you studied the embryonic human brain? I have. I don't think basic neural tube closure can amount to calling a creature the most profound and holy thing we can call them: human.
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Not true. At that stage, anyone can identify that fetus as a human.
 
Aleser said:
Its a good thing that even two forms of birth control can fail, right?

Again, you're going back to "women should only have sex certain ways or in certain conditions or else they got what was coming to them!" - and that's so much more wrong than just being "pro life" in itself. Like women are "at fault" if they don't have safer sex, or heck, if they have sex at all, and they're "innocent" if they get raped in the right circumstances- no drinking or short skirts, girls, because you probably deserve to get raped and pregnant then. :roll:

It isn't your place to decide what level of risk of pregnancy is acceptable for any woman, or to decide they "ought" to be punished with carrying a pregnancy to term if they can't/dont want to use BC, or BC fails for them.
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Think what you do want. :dunno2:

Well, what about male victims of rape? I keep seeing pro-choice people throw the rape arguments at pro-lifers, yet I see no one stand up for male victims. But it is still his fault, right? Seriously... I happen to agree mostly with my friend, here: General favourites by DeafCougar555 on deviantART

DISCLAIMER: This essay is in no way telling you what you can or can't do with your life. I'm just sharing my view on how certain things need to be encouraged more and certain other things need to be controlled more. If you don't want to be one of those people, THAT IS PURELY YOUR CHOICE.
Just like I would warn people of the dangers of smoking but still not force anyone to stop smoking, nor would I ban it. This is pretty much the same here.
I pretty much already addressed this in the essay itself, but you know, some people and their ability to miss the point once their emotions get stirred the wrong way.
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"If it's not your life, it's not your business!"
I am not here to impose my views or my way of living on anyone else. Everybody is still free to make their own personal choices. I'm merely here to show how dangerous and damaging oversexualization can be, and I believe there needs to be some change. Although viewing sex as a negative thing is not a good thing, viewing sex as too much of a good thing is equally harmful. The best option for us is to view sexuality in a neutral light.
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Again, I'm not anti-BCs or anything. I'm for responsibility and support sex education. I am against the "don't get raped" idea. I'm not here to tell everyone to follow what I say. That's just silly. I am here to share my POVs on some hot topics. Not to tell you what to do. Well, I now realize you may still think me as being "old pro-lifer." Fine. Keep believe in my "old self", then.
 
StSapphire said:
No, that's more rhetorical slop. A fetus is not an "unborn baby" any more than an egg is an "unseminated unborn baby".
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Oh golly, you're so wrong.

Life begins at conception. It doesn't matter how it begin - it's human with the DNA blueprint for human life.

It's a biological fact.

Do I believe that fetuses are persons? No. But they ARE humans nonetheless. I know they have no clue. Social rights are social constructs of ours. And I know that not every woman is ready to be a mother.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
Well, what about male victims of rape? I keep seeing pro-choice people throw the rape arguments at pro-lifers, yet I see no one stand up for male victims. But it is still his fault, right?
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Er, I've worked with male victims of domestic violence and human trafficking as part of my job, in one of only a handful of shelters and DV services in the US that serve male victims. I'm among one of perhaps, pushing it, a thousand people in the US who has provided direct services (other than therapy or legal aid) to male victims of DV and trafficking. What have you done to stop violence?

I never claimed, or implied, or vaguely suggested that men cannot get raped. Of freaking course they can. But that is not the topic at hand: we're talking about women and pregnancy right now.
 
netrox said:
Not true. At that stage, anyone can identify that fetus as a human.
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Again, have you -physically seen- one in person? Not seen a shopped picture produced by a pro-life propaganda site, or seen a drawing with the human-like-cheeks emphasized. Have you seen a one-to-two-gram, not vaguely human 8 week -embyro-. It is not even a fetus yet.

Graphic, but this should give you some idea. Again, 1-2 grams:

this

This

or this

I don't see people there darn anywhere.
 
Aleser said:
Er, I've worked with male victims of domestic violence and human trafficking as part of my job, in one of only a handful of shelters and DV services in the US that serve male victims. I'm among one of perhaps, pushing it, a thousand people in the US who has provided direct services (other than therapy or legal aid) to male victims of DV and trafficking. What have you done to stop violence?
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Okay then.

I never claimed, or implied, or vaguely suggested that men cannot get raped. Of freaking course they can. But that is not the topic at hand: we're talking about women and pregnancy right now.
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But, to me, blaming one gender or the another will not get you somewhere. I happen to don't agree most of Joey's posts here.
 
Aleser said:
Again, have you -physically seen- one in person? Not seen a shopped picture produced by a pro-life propaganda site, or seen a drawing with the human-like-cheeks emphasized. Have you seen a one-to-two-gram, not vaguely human 8 week -embyro-. It is not even a fetus yet.

Graphic, but this should give you some idea. Again, 1-2 grams:

this

This

or this

I don't see people there darn anywhere.
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Then please tell to Bethany that she is wrong and to convience her that she is BIG lair.

But she miscarried her baby at 6-7 weeks of pregnancy...
 
:confused:

I just pointed out to her actual photo that is her own picture, not from any website. Even she said, "I held my baby in my hand, and you’re not going to convince me I didn’t see what I saw."

I know, like Netrox, people may not believe unborn babies are not persons but humans. That's all right. I understand. Still, that is how human development works...
 
netrox said:
Not true. At that stage, anyone can identify that fetus as a human.
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kbygrp.png


Which one's a human?

netrox said:
Oh golly, you're so wrong.
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Oh golly, I'm... no, you're wrong.

netrox said:
Life begins at conception. It doesn't matter how it begin - it's human with the DNA blueprint for human life.

It's a biological fact.
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Incorrect. Do you know anything about biological development? You can't just stir up some human DNA in a tube and then "poof" it's a human. That isn't how biology works.

Look into developmental biology. DNA is just a start.
 
I'm not going to wade through 4 pages of the same old, same old. Let's just say the law will be challanged, because the state cannot mandate appropriate medical care for anyone, including women who are considering an abortion. If an ultrasound is necessary for the health of the woman, the doctor is the one to decide if it is to be done, and under what circumstantances. This is just another one of those religious attempts to circumvent law.
 
Beach girl said:
Why do you say that? If she was self-supporting before she got pregnant, that doesn't necessarily mean she can afford to raise a child all by herself. Even if a woman is married, has a child, and later divorces, she is entitled to child support in all states, I believe, but only rarely will be entitled to alimony.

The costs of raising a child, ideally, should be split between the man and the woman in some way that is fair, but of course out-of-wedlock pregnancies rarely have the financial arrangements tied up quite that neatly.
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That where the family count come in , it get the parent to pay child support. And women have to pay child support too. If you're a dead beat parent your have your photo posted on line and in Post Offices!
 
JoeyDeafNinja said:
Condom is answer.
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How effective are male condoms in preventing pregnancy?

A condom's effectiveness largely depends on the person who uses it. If a man pulls it on roughly, lets his partner snag it with her teeth, or only puts it on halfway through intercourse, this will greatly reduce the protection it offers.

When used correctly, a male condom is about 98 per cent effective. This means that only about 2 in every 100 women would get pregnant in the course of a year. This is more effective than several other forms of contraception, such as withdrawal or using spermicides (chemicals) alone. And it's far better than using nothing!
 
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