Law Requires Ultrasound Before Abortion

[DeafCaroline]

There are so many verses showing that even God himself recommends death to life in the womb in instances where she had lain with a man other than her husband and cursing her to a lifetime of barrenness.

God recommended "bitter water" to cause death to the child in the woman's womb or God would demand for the offending woman to be die by fire. And God himself recommended infants be killed in Egypt.

Very interesting that God had nothing to say to the men who offended by sleeping with the "adulteress" or the "prostitute" such as the Judah sleeping with his daughter in law. But then again, according to God, women have only half the value of men.

So, basically, if a woman sleeps with a man who is not her husband, she's a prostitute or an adulteress and must be punished by making herself abort or by being put to death.

 

[Reba]

Wirelessly posted (BB Curve 9300)

Which religions oppose abortions on demand as a way to punish women for for their sexual activity?

Do you want an actual itemized list of all that I can think of?

And to clarify, I'm not saying that their official position of opposing abortion is actually enunciated as "to punish sexually active women", but when combined with the sex-negative views of their religions (viewing sexual activity as shameful, aiming to reduce the amount of accurate knowledge that followers have with regards to sex, etc) and the rhetoric used to fight abortions (claiming that it is an irresponsible way of handling the consequences of sex, calling those who get abortions irresponsible and/or promiscuous, telling the women to "just close their legs", etc), it is apparent that regardless of the actual words used, the opinions driving the moral decision stem at least partially from a goal to reduce access to abortions as a method of punishing sexually active women by forcing them to endure 9 or more months of labor for the sin of being sexually active.

What a bizarre perception. That certainly doesn't describe the Christians that I know.

 

[StSapphire]

Netrox said "fetus" and not embryo. At nine weeks the baby is called a fetus.

This is what a human 9 week old fetus looks like and sure definitely looks human. It is called a fetus for a reason because that's when the baby becomes recognizable as a human being.

9-Week Fetus, MRI Animation

For one thing, the link you sent looks fairly similar to the one I posted, other than that it has slightly better imagery, and shows a stylized CGI model in some of the images, rather than a hand-drawn representation.

However, the point wasn't that, it was the comparative images. If you complain that my image wasn't of a 9-week (or older) fetus (I honestly don't know, the length of time wasn't listed on the original image, but I'd guess it was between 8-12 weeks), then feel free to provide comparative images to prove that it's actually distinguishable from other fetal mammal (btw, it's called a fetus because that's the term for post-embryonic and pre-birth mammalian development, not "because that's when it looks like a person"; cats, dogs, pigs and bears all have fetal development stages as well) as equitable times during their development.

 

[Reba]

Wirelessly posted (BB Curve 9300)

Wirelessly posted (BB Curve 9300)



Show me a Bible verse that says God approves of women having abortions on demand (that is, where the life of the mother isn't at risk).

Your example does show that someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb is held accountable.

Not by God. By "judges."

God gave the law to the judges to follow. It was a way to avoid vigilantism by the aggrieved parties.

 

[StSapphire]

What a bizarre perception. That certainly doesn't describe the Christians that I know.

Bizarre to you, perhaps. It describes a very large many pro-life/anti-choice Christians I know.

I could just socialize with a wider range of people than you do, though.

 

[Beowulf]

Wirelessly posted (BB Curve 9300)



God gave the law to the judges to follow. It was a way to avoid vigilantism by the aggrieved parties.

God also gave us Obama to follow, yet there are still aggrieved parties.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Well, I won't use an religious argument to support my non-traditional pro-life belief. That is why I social with secular and/or non-religious pro-lifers more...

 

[rockin'robin]

Personally, the only way I would have an abortion is that if I was raped and became pregnant from it, incest, or my life or the baby's were in danger.

With all the birth control available these days, and we women are "savvy", (or should be)...why would a woman want to become "knocked up" with an unwanted pregnancy? Is it stupidity on our part?

Then again, WHY would a woman, who or if takes pride in her body, spread her legs for every male that comes around who is "just horny"? And let them use her for sex? Sort of like a "wham, bam...and thank you, mamm"?

All my boys have condoms in their wallets. And 2 of my boys girlfriends are on birth control. Whether they are having sex, I can't say with 100% accuracy, but I can be damn sure that I've done my part to avoid an unwanted pregnancy from them (my boys).

 

[Beowulf]

Personally, the only way I would have an abortion is that if I was raped and became pregnant from it, incest, or my life or the baby's were in danger.

With all the birth control available these days, and we women are "savvy", (or should be)...why would a woman want to become "knocked up" with an unwanted pregnancy? Is it stupidity on our part?

Then again, WHY would a woman, who or if takes pride in her body, spread her legs for every male that comes around who is "just horny"? And let them use her for sex? Sort of like a "wham, bam...and thank you, mamm"?

All my boys have condoms in their wallets. And 2 of my boys girlfriends are on birth control. Whether they are having sex, I can't say with 100% accuracy, but I can be damn sure that I've done my part to avoid an unwanted pregnancy from them (my boys).

Then tell your boys to remove the condoms from their wallets, unless you want to be a grandmother. That is the worst possible place to keep them.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Then again, WHY would a woman, who or if takes pride in her body, spread her legs for every male that comes around who is "just horny"? And let them use her for sex? Sort of like a "wham, bam...and thank you, mamm"?

what is wrong with that if they are horny? Just wonder?

 

[kokonut]

For one thing, the link you sent looks fairly similar to the one I posted, other than that it has slightly better imagery, and shows a stylized CGI model in some of the images, rather than a hand-drawn representation.

However, the point wasn't that, it was the comparative images. If you complain that my image wasn't of a 9-week (or older) fetus (I honestly don't know, the length of time wasn't listed on the original image, but I'd guess it was between 8-12 weeks), then feel free to provide comparative images to prove that it's actually distinguishable from other fetal mammal (btw, it's called a fetus because that's the term for post-embryonic and pre-birth mammalian development, not "because that's when it looks like a person"; cats, dogs, pigs and bears all have fetal development stages as well) as equitable times during their development.

The pictures you posted with one being a human embryo (far right) was about 42 days old (between 5 to 6 weeks old). There are NO readily identifiable features that shows it to be a human being in a fully recognizable human form. The one you posted only showed with barely budding appendages while my picture at 9 weeks has fully recognizable limbs with legs, feet, toes, hands and fingers. Netrox was correct about the fetus being recognizable as a human being.

That's why I said human fetus and not just fetus.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Personally, the only way I would have an abortion is that if I was raped and became pregnant from it, incest, or my life or the baby's were in danger.

With all the birth control available these days, and we women are "savvy", (or should be)...why would a woman want to become "knocked up" with an unwanted pregnancy? Is it stupidity on our part?

Then again, WHY would a woman, who or if takes pride in her body, spread her legs for every male that comes around who is "just horny"? And let them use her for sex? Sort of like a "wham, bam...and thank you, mamm"?

All my boys have condoms in their wallets. And 2 of my boys girlfriends are on birth control. Whether they are having sex, I can't say with 100% accuracy, but I can be damn sure that I've done my part to avoid an unwanted pregnancy from them (my boys).

I think it is doing with the a lack of irresponsibility for both genders. But, hey, do you notice Europe's rate of pregnancy is pretty low because of consistence, nudity is generally accepted, and better responsibility? Hence abortion, adoption, and unwanted pregnancies are more lower than USA. But I'm not say that our country is terrible or encourage teens to have sex, I just say knowledge and sexual health are the key. But I realize your religious belief may not agree with that.

I think about ask my friend to post her essay here from deviantART...

 

[rockin'robin]

what is wrong with that if they are horny? Just wonder?

Being "horny"?...We all know the consequences of unprotected sex. What's happened to "OUR responsibility to OUR SELF"? Are we not "responsible" for our bodies, (we women)....Or not taking responsibility for our actions, and having abortion after abortion after abortion....before we somehow "wake up" and use birth control?

Sex is a beautiful thing between 2 responsible people. Sadly, at times, it's being "used" just because of being "horny".....

 

[KarissaMann05]

For one thing, the link you sent looks fairly similar to the one I posted, other than that it has slightly better imagery, and shows a stylized CGI model in some of the images, rather than a hand-drawn representation.

However, the point wasn't that, it was the comparative images. If you complain that my image wasn't of a 9-week (or older) fetus (I honestly don't know, the length of time wasn't listed on the original image, but I'd guess it was between 8-12 weeks), then feel free to provide comparative images to prove that it's actually distinguishable from other fetal mammal (btw, it's called a fetus because that's the term for post-embryonic and pre-birth mammalian development, not "because that's when it looks like a person"; cats, dogs, pigs and bears all have fetal development stages as well) as equitable times during their development.

So are you saying that Bethany is lair? I happen to know her and she lost her three kids. She did saw their children as tiny fetuses, she held them after they died. Even, there are also plenty of ultrasound videos on youtube. Between 8 to 12 weeks babies... I'm sure that some videos did show miscarried fetuses. Otherwise, why was science generally accepted about 8-weeks-old unborn child as a fetus instead of an embryo?

 

[rockin'robin]

Then tell your boys to remove the condoms from their wallets, unless you want to be a grandmother. That is the worst possible place to keep them.

IF they are having sex, like I said, their girlfriends are on birth control, and I know that for a fact, as I'm friends with the girls' parents. The condom can prevent STD's....and they have 2 boxes of them in their dresser drawers. And thanks for the reminder!...I'll tell my sons to change the condoms in their wallets every 2 weeks or so.

My son's future is foremost in my mind, an unwanted pregnancy isn't. And like I said, with all the birth control available today, it would be simply "stupidity" on their part if an unwanted pregnancy occurred.

 

[StSapphire]

The pictures you posted with one being a human embryo (far right) was about 42 days old (between 5 to 6 weeks old). There are NO readily identifiable features that shows it to be a human being in a fully recognizable human form. The one you posted only showed with barely budding appendages while my picture at 9 weeks has fully recognizable limbs with legs, feet, toes, hands and fingers. Netrox was correct about the fetus being recognizable as a human being.

That's why I said human fetus and not just fetus.

Well, like I said, I wasn't certain on the age. The point I was making still was, show comparative images, to determine whether it's "easily recognizable". Also keep in mind that the human brain is highly adept at recognizing patterns, including patterns that don't actually exist, such as "images in clouds". Recognizability isn't a valid determination for whether something is human or not. (For that matter, it's not exactly a valid determination for much of anything.)

Being "horny"?...We all know the consequences of unprotected sex. What's happened to "OUR responsibility to OUR SELF"? Are we not "responsible" for our bodies, (we women)....Or not taking responsibility for our actions, and having abortion after abortion after abortion....before we somehow "wake up" and use birth control?

Sex is a beautiful thing between 2 responsible people. Sadly, at times, it's being "used" just because of being "horny".....

What's wrong if it is "just" a pleasurable act between two people who are enjoying themselves? While you're claiming to want to be proactive about sex and sex education with your children (which is a good thing), the overtones still come off sounding rather sex-negative.

So are you saying that Bethany is lair? I happen to know her and she lost her three kids. She did saw their children as tiny fetuses, she held them after they died. Even, there are also plenty of ultrasound videos on youtube. Between 8 to 12 weeks babies... I'm sure that some videos did show miscarried fetuses. Otherwise, why was science generally accepted about 8-weeks-old unborn child as a fetus instead of an embryo?

I'm saying that Bethany is a human, which means she has a whole host of very human defects, such as the ability to anthropomorphize damned near anything ever. She mentioned things such as asking why a miscarriage hurt - that's a silly question - it's not because the developing fetus was already a fully human child, any more than a 1 year old baby is a fully pre-grown adult.

Things such as miscarriages hurt because humans form anticipations and plan in advance, just like when you've just given birth, you can imagine your child going to school. I don't understand the distinction currently being made between "embryo" and "fetus", though. Fetus isn't some magical "really a real person" term or anything, so why the focus on that? It's just another stage in prenatal development.

 

[kokonut]

Well, like I said, I wasn't certain on the age. The point I was making still was, show comparative images, to determine whether it's "easily recognizable". Also keep in mind that the human brain is highly adept at recognizing patterns, including patterns that don't actually exist, such as "images in clouds". Recognizability isn't a valid determination for whether something is human or not. (For that matter, it's not exactly a valid determination for much of anything.)

Um, having distinctive features like formed separated toes and fingers to go with the feet and hands should be a pretty darned big clue that it's a human being at 9 weeks. I don't think those images of a fetus at 9 weeks would constitute as imaginary like puffy little clouds that look like a bunny rabbit or a cat.

 

[Beowulf]

Um, having distinctive features like formed separated toes and fingers to go with the feet and hands should be a pretty darned big clue that it's a human being at 9 weeks. I don't think those images of a fetus at 9 weeks would constitute as imaginary like puffy little clouds that look like a bunny rabbit or a cat.

Or apes?

 

[StSapphire]

Um, having distinctive features like formed separated toes and fingers to go with the feet and hands should be a pretty darned big clue that it's a human being at 9 weeks. I don't think those images of a fetus at 9 weeks would constitute as imaginary like puffy little clouds that look like a bunny rabbit or a cat.

Anthropomorphism.

 

[rockin'robin]

Well, like I said, I wasn't certain on the age. The point I was making still was, show comparative images, to determine whether it's "easily recognizable". Also keep in mind that the human brain is highly adept at recognizing patterns, including patterns that don't actually exist, such as "images in clouds". Recognizability isn't a valid determination for whether something is human or not. (For that matter, it's not exactly a valid determination for much of anything.)



What's wrong if it is "just" a pleasurable act between two people who are enjoying themselves? While you're claiming to want to be proactive about sex and sex education with your children (which is a good thing), the overtones still come off sounding rather sex-negative.




I'm saying that Bethany is a human, which means she has a whole host of very human defects, such as the ability to anthropomorphize damned near anything ever. She mentioned things such as asking why a miscarriage hurt - that's a silly question - it's not because the developing fetus was already a fully human child, any more than a 1 year old baby is a fully pre-grown adult.

Things such as miscarriages hurt because humans form anticipations and plan in advance, just like when you've just given birth, you can imagine your child going to school. I don't understand the distinction currently being made between "embryo" and "fetus", though. Fetus isn't some magical "really a real person" term or anything, so why the focus on that? It's just another stage in prenatal development.

A "pleasureable act" still has it's consequences! What's wrong with protecting urself before the act?....Even married people, single couples, teenagers, etc., have "pleasureable sex"...Who's to say that even I can't have "pleasurable sex", but I'm savvy enuf to protect myself.