Language Skills of Children with Early Cochlear Implantation.

And imagine your child rejecting that and affiliating with the Deaf community. Happens in the majority of cases.

We raised and are raising both our children to become independent adults who can make their own decisions and if that is what she chooses, then she will have our support and always our love.
 
We raised and are raising both our children to become independent adults who can make their own decisions and if that is what she chooses, then she will have our support and always our love.

And just think,if you knew sign, you would be able to share that with her. Or is her sharing your hearing world the only option for you?
 
And just think,if you knew sign, you would be able to share that with her. Or is her sharing your hearing world the only option for you?

Our mom supports us being involved with the Deaf community and using ASL but my brother and I wish she would learn sign. Would make communication with her a lot easier. However, she did get a sidekick so that meant a lot to us cuz it makes it easier for us to contact her. It would be an awesome miracle if our whole family learned sign but we have accepted that it is wishful thinking.

my friends and I always tell those whose family learned sign that they r lucky.
 
And just think,if you knew sign, you would be able to share that with her. Or is her sharing your hearing world the only option for you?

Why wouldn't we, never too late to teach an old dog some new tricks.
 
Why the child would be rejecting it at first tells me he/she either doesn't know the whole of what is out there right now or he/she has been steered from it. I will, out of courtesy, guess he/she just simply doesn't know right now because he/she is so young. Ooops, sorry, Lotte is a little girl; change all of the above to "she".

Exactly. A while back, I attempted an explanation of the very subtle pushes toward oral language that hearing parents give their deaf children, often unconsciously. Something as simple as simply responding to a signed question from a child, but responding with praise when the same question is oral. Or signing only to the child, and not in the presence of the child. Small things like this send a very subtle message about language preferences, and which one brings favor from the parent.

My way, quite obviously, with my son is not the way that many agree with. However, I can say I always signed in my son's presence, no matter who I was speaking to. My home was very much bilingual. As a result, my son assumed I was deaf until he was five. Judging from that, I'd say he got a pretty clear message that some people sign (deaf) and some people don't sign (hearing). But the message that one was preferred over the other? Nope. That message wan't there.
 
Our mom supports us being involved with the Deaf community and using ASL but my brother and I wish she would learn sign. Would make communication with her a lot easier. However, she did get a sidekick so that meant a lot to us cuz it makes it easier for us to contact her. It would be an awesome miracle if our whole family learned sign but we have accepted that it is wishful thinking.

my friends and I always tell those whose family learned sign that they r lucky.

That's what I'm talking about, shel. Supporting someone is hardly the same as sharing their lifestyle.
 
And just think,if you knew sign, you would be able to share that with her. Or is her sharing your hearing world the only option for you?

So, actually, you know nothing about CI.. otherwise you would know that sharing is not a problem.
Her world IS the hearing world... ( looks like you have different worlds..)
 
So, actually, you know nothing about CI.. otherwise you would know that sharing is not a problem.
Her world IS the hearing world... ( looks like you have different worlds..)

Go back to the education thread for a compelte explanation of the error inthat assumption. She is not hearing. She is deaf with CI. And,has chosen to learn sign language to communicate with her peers. Her peers are other deaf HOH, not hearing. If her peers were hearing, she would have no need of sign language to communicate with them, now would she? Has nothing to do with CI. Do you understand how you are implying, in statements such as these, that CI makes a person no longer deaf. Having hearing and being hearing are two different things. You need to learn to distinguish between the two.
 
...........Do you understand how you are implying, in statements such as these, that CI makes a person no longer deaf. Having hearing and being hearing are two different things. You need to learn to distinguish between the two.

Nice lecture...
But, nowadays, you can be deaf, and still be able to hear.
I have never implied that my daughter is not deaf nor that Ci makes a person no langer deaf.

What you haven't realised is that the world went from "deaf and hoh" to "deaf, hoh and CI"... You are still trying to stuff everything in two boxes..

BTW... How do you define "being able to hear".... ??
 
Nice lecture...
But, nowadays, you can be deaf, and still be able to hear.
I have never implied that my daughter is not deaf nor that Ci makes a person no langer deaf.

What you haven't realised is that the world went from "deaf and hoh" to "deaf, hoh and CI"... You are still trying to stuff everything in two boxes..

BTW... How do you define "being able to hear".... ??

And, as I said, cloggy, being able to hear and being hearing are two differnt things. This is where the gaps come in. Being able to hear does not mean that a child is able to fully function as one who is hearing. Even the most proficeint oral successes require some form of accommodation, and experience langauge and educational difficulties. Therefore, they do not perform on the same level as one who is hearing. And deaf with CI makes one nothing more than deaf with CI, just as a deaf individual that uses an HA is deaf with HA. A CI cannot turn a child who was born deaf into one who was born hearing, nor can it permit functioning auditorily at the same level as one who was born hearing. It simply adds sound perception to the deaf. The vast majority of CI users, both adult and children, function at the level of HOH. That alone means, if they are functioning at HOH level, they are not functioning at the same level as one who wa born,and remains, hearing.

AQnd, in reference to sharing...the very word implies reciprocal action. Just becasue a deaf child is able to share in your hearing world via CI and spokenlanguage, does not mean that you, in return are able to share in her deaf world via sign language and experience. If we demand that our deaf children share in our hearing world, and do make the effort to do so, shouldn't we, as parents, also do whatever is required, no matter how much extra effort it takes, to also share in theirs? Who is the adult?
 
.................
AQnd, in reference to sharing...the very word implies reciprocal action. Just becasue a deaf child is able to share in your hearing world via CI and spokenlanguage, does not mean that you, in return are able to share in her deaf world via sign language and experience. If we demand that our deaf children share in our hearing world, and do make the effort to do so, shouldn't we, as parents, also do whatever is required, no matter how much extra effort it takes, to also share in theirs? Who is the adult?
Why do you every time assume that the world of a deaf child automatically includes sign language...
Sharing can be done by using sign. The parent can learn it. It is not a necessity. There are other ways.... YOu might not like it, but there are plenty of succesful deaf people that never learned sign.
To state that sharing equals learning signlanguage is rediculous.

We demand nothing. We make a choice and provide an opportunity, a possibility. And we hope that our choice was correct.
And whatever the choice is, it requires managing. Looking how the developmet is, helping out, arranging support etc. It's the same whatever the choice of the parent was.
There are no demands. Why do you use so much negative terminology in your post.. you really have a dark look on anything that is not ASL.

And "Who is the adult.."
Is that an insinuation that when the choice, focus is NOT signlanguage it is completely wrong?
 
Go back to the education thread for a compelte explanation of the error inthat assumption. She is not hearing. She is deaf with CI. And,has chosen to learn sign language to communicate with her peers. Her peers are other deaf HOH, not hearing. If her peers were hearing, she would have no need of sign language to communicate with them, now would she? Has nothing to do with CI. Do you understand how you are implying, in statements such as these, that CI makes a person no longer deaf. Having hearing and being hearing are two different things. You need to learn to distinguish between the two.

Complete and utter fabrication.

Cloggy, don't waste your time with her.


"Why do people lie?" - Kenny Loggins
 
Complete and utter fabrication.

Cloggy, don't waste your time with her.


"Why do people lie?" - Kenny Loggins

Rick you yourself said that your daughter took sign to complete a language requirement for her degree. You also stated that she thought learning sign would be agreat idea so she could communicate with her deaf friends who did not have oral skills equal to hers. Are you actuallydenying that you said these things? I need a denial or a confirmation, because I can easily find the posts if you are denying it, and if you are confirming that you did say those things, then you have no reason to accuse me of fabrication. So which is it?
 
Why do you every time assume that the world of a deaf child automatically includes sign language...
Sharing can be done by using sign. The parent can learn it. It is not a necessity. There are other ways.... YOu might not like it, but there are plenty of succesful deaf people that never learned sign.
To state that sharing equals learning signlanguage is rediculous.

We are not talking about deaf adults. We are talking about deaf children. And how hearing parents relate to them. Stick to the topic please.

We demand nothing. We make a choice and provide an opportunity, a possibility. And we hope that our choice was correct.
And whatever the choice is, it requires managing. Looking how the developmet is, helping out, arranging support etc. It's the same whatever the choice of the parent was.
There are no demands. Why do you use so much negative terminology in your post.. you really have a dark look on anything that is not ASL.

And "Who is the adult.."
Is that an insinuation that when the choice, focus is NOT signlanguage it is completely wrong?

Here we go again. More explanations necessary. Who is the adult means that the adult is the one responsible for making the adjustments necessary for the child, not the other way around.

No. cloggy, I don't have a dark look on anything that isn't ASL. I have a dark look on strict oralism. Its not the same thing, at all. And the management comes in as far as providing accommodations. It does not extend to the way you relate to a child.
 
Go back to the education thread for a compelte explanation of the error inthat assumption. She is not hearing. She is deaf with CI. And,has chosen to learn sign language to communicate with her peers. Her peers are other deaf HOH, not hearing. If her peers were hearing, she would have no need of sign language to communicate with them, now would she? Has nothing to do with CI. Do you understand how you are implying, in statements such as these, that CI makes a person no longer deaf. Having hearing and being hearing are two different things. You need to learn to distinguish between the two.
wow... that's wrong and B.S.
 
Complete and utter fabrication.

Cloggy, don't waste your time with her.


"Why do people lie?" - Kenny Loggins

Rick you yourself said that your daughter took sign to complete a language requirement for her degree. You also stated that she thought learning sign would be agreat idea so she could communicate with her deaf friends who did not have oral skills equal to hers. Are you actuallydenying that you said these things? I need a denial or a confirmation, because I can easily find the posts if you are denying it, and if you are confirming that you did say those things, then you have no reason to accuse me of fabrication. So which is it?

I have stated many times in the past why my daughter took some ASL classes and you have made your own statements based on the facts I presented. I am not going to engage in this discussion any further for as far as I am concerned on this issue--the sky is blue.
 
You often quote Marschark as someone to justify your views. However, in an interview in handsandvoices.org Marschark makes some pretty bold statements and while I may not agree with everything he says, he at least demonstrates an ability to have an open-mind on an issue that is clearly not black and white. I would ask others to go and read the entire interview, its pretty interesting and informative.

Seaver: So what do we really know about the kids who are reading at grade level compared to those above or below?

Marschark: ... I know it's possible for deaf children to read on grade level

I know that it is a fact that deaf children can read at grade or above, my entering 9th grade son is reading at a 10th grade level.

-- I know it's realistic! What makes the kids at or above grade level different from those, let's say, below grade level? The answer to that will make some people crabby. First, in contrast to the mantra that we often hear, there is no evidence that deaf children of deaf parents read significantly better than deaf children of hearing parents simply because of that parental hearing status. Deaf children who are exposed to both sign language early and spoken language (and/or print) read better than deaf children who are exposed to only one or the other.

The key is early language--My son the ninth grader reading at a 10th grade was diagnosis at the age of 3 months, plus he had the add advantage of us already having a deaf child so we knew where to start. My son had a parent-infant teacher by the time he was 5 months old, was in a daily preschool program by the age 18 months.

not early sign language, or early spoken language, or parents who are deaf or parents who can stand on their heads. It's early effective access to language.

The Parent Factor
Marschark: I know of only one study that tried to isolate what's different about the "good readers" from everybody else. It was a study done here at NTID a few years ago. Although it was only a preliminary study, my own observations and the data available convinced me that it is 100% correct. What they did was to take the top 10-20 deaf readers/writers on campus, interview them, throw test batteries at them, and try to answer essentially your question. There were three key variables that distinguished the good reader/writers from everybody else: #1 Parents, #2 Parents, and #3 Parents...

This is what I have been trying to say over and over again, it doesn't matter what type of program a deaf child is in it matters how involved and how much the parents brace the program the child is in.

the point is that parents who are most involved in their children's early education--both formally and informally--are likely to have the children who have the best outcomes...

And this is why my children are so successful not because of us raising them orally but because we braced the program we were in.

Seaver: So it's boiling down to parents doing the right thing for their deaf child based on misunderstood research and a host of complex, unknown factors. Welcome to my world!

Marschark : ...A lot of the data out there are 100% clear, but many people are not willing to accept it. From deaf parents not really having children who read better, to sign language not really interfering with spoken language for children with implants, the facts make a lot of people very nervous.

Seaver: If you became the parent of a deaf child, what would you do?

Marschark: Interestingly, my view on that has changed quite a bit since 1997 when I wrote the first edition of Raising and Educating a Deaf Child...Since the second half of 2000, however, a wealth of evidence has clearly shown that most deaf children will benefit from cochlear implants, even if many of them will not benefit specifically with regard to spoken language (hearing environmental sounds can have important cognitive and social implications that should not be dismissed). So, now that I've seen the evidence, I would seriously consider a cochlear implant for my child, even if, at the same time, I would push for the acquisition of ASL as a first language and use some English-based signing as a bridge to English print. At the same time, I used to be a radical advocate of mainstream education for young deaf children. Having done the research that I have over the past 12 years since I came to NTID, my view on that has changed as well.

Solutions

Marschark : The evidence has convinced me, more than ever, that there is never going to be a "one size fits all" solution for deaf children either educationally or in language...It all starts with parents, and Hands & Voices seems to advocate the kind of flexibility that deaf children (and their families) really need while being willing to tell parents that it really is complicated... that there are not very many simple answers...I have learned a lot in the last 10 years.

Did you read this part Jillo where it one size does not fit all. Do you understand what it means? It means every child is different and so decisions need to based on that child and what that child needs not what you think all deaf children need.

Rick What an amazing post. Really great information
 
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