Jesus Wasn't Gods Only Son

[Reba]

...If the Bible were written by God, there would be no arguments about flaws in the Bible but it was written by humans so therefore there are flaws in the Bible.

The words are from God. The misinterpretations are by flawed humans. There are no "flaws" in the Bible. The only flaws are in the people misusing the Bible.

Anyone, "To err is human". Study, acknowledge and adopt that powerful logic. If you do, it will save your soul.

How does that "save your soul?" Besides, according to many of the non-Christians here, souls don't need saving.

If anyone deemed Da Vinci Code as 'fiction' or 'full of holes' then you also deemed the Bible as 'fiction' or 'full of holes' too. Both books were written by humans. Keep that in your mind from now. Thank you.

The author of the Da Vinci Code novel stated that it was a work of fiction.
The author of the Bible stated that it was a work of truth.
The authors have spoken for themselves.

Reba, I sincerely hope that you are aware that even "live news video" are often edited and altered before shown on TV? There are approx 3 - 7 seconds delays between "live news video" and your area. Ask any professional cameraman. I know because I took two semsters in media during in HS. I also want to add that what you saw on TV does not mean that you got the full picture of what happened in reality.

Well, duh! You aren't telling me anything new. I was a professional journalist before you were born. I have attended schools in basic journalism, photo journalism, feature writing, radio and TV broadcasting, media relations, and public affairs. I've been a staff reporter, editor, script writer, and media representative. In college, one of my courses was "Brainwashing and Propaganda" (I know you would love that one).

My point was, that art is not viewed with the same eye as one would view a news broadcast or documentary.

 

[VamPyroX]

I will try one more time. How many people are seated at the table in the paintings of the Last Supper? Thirteen? OK. Jesus plus 12 disciples equals 13. There is not a 14th person, male or female. All the Scriptures refer to Jesus "and the 12" attending the supper. All the paintings show 13 people, Jesus "and the 12". Whatever theology you believe, whatever novel you follow, there were still only 13 men at the last supper in the paintings. Simple math.

My beliefs don't depend on paintings. I hope no one else depends on paintings for their beliefs either. I am just trying to apply logic to some illogical statements. If there are no women in the paintings, why should I agree that there are? It doesn't make sense.

No, I don't think that I know everything. But I do have eyes that can see, and I can count up to 13.

How do you know if the Bible is telling the truth? Let me give you a good example...

Here at RIT, I attend an organization meeting. In that meeting, I see the president and his executive board. They are members of that organization... obviously. Aside from that executive board, there are also 10 other members at the table. Since I am documenting the meeting, I am going to be as honest as I can. Since there are six members on the executive board, that makes the total members present at the meeting... 16. So, in my report... I write, "The president sat at the front with the respectful gavel in his hand. To his left and right are 15 members." There, I told the truth. Oh wait, I forgot to add that there were 2 other observers in the meeting. They were just there to see how that organization runs their meeting. They had no intention of being involved or anything, but they were at the meeting. Since that is the case, there were also 2 people at that meeting. Now, back to the Bible... the person writing the story was either there or he wrote from what someone else said. Stories can be biased or a partial truth. So, it's possible that Jesus did have 12 apostles with him. Maybe, the person who attended the Last Supper wanted to make it sound serious... so he only wrote about Jesus and his 12 apostles. He didn't include other people that were present in the Last Supper. Maybe, Mary did sit next to him. Maybe, the painter based his creation on the word of another witness who witnessed different.

 

[kuifje75]

The words are from God. The misinterpretations are by flawed humans. There are no "flaws" in the Bible. The only flaws are in the people misusing the Bible.

The author of the Da Vinci Code novel stated that it was a work of fiction.
The author of the Bible stated that it was a work of truth.
The authors have spoken for themselves.

All right, what sayeth thou about the Book of Mormon?

Well, duh!

Again, you're being rather arrogant.

 

[Vance]

The words are from God. The misinterpretations are by flawed humans. There are no "flaws" in the Bible. The only flaws are in the people misusing the Bible.

... that does not make any sense at all. Maybe I'm too logic-based to not able to understand your faith-based interpretation of flaws in the Bible.

Both books were written by same species.

Actually, this issue gets nowhere. I know that there are flaws in the Bible. That's good enough for me. Everyone, have fun with this topic.

 

[Reba]

All right, what sayeth thou about the Book of Mormon?

I do not believe it is the inspired Word of God.

 

[Maria]

So the bible is. The Bible was written by imperfect creatures a.k.a. humans. If the Bible were written by God, there would be no arguments about flaws in the Bible but it was written by humans so therefore there are flaws in the Bible.


Anyone, "To err is human". Study, acknowledge and adopt that powerful logic. If you do, it will save your soul. If anyone deemed Da Vinci Code as 'fiction' or 'full of holes' then you also deemed the Bible as 'fiction' or 'full of holes' too. Both books were written by humans.

Yes, I acknowledge the fact that it is highly possible that there are flaws in Da Vinci Code but there are flaws in the Bible too. Like it or not, deal with it.

Reba, I sincerely hope that you are aware that even "live news video" are often edited and altered before shown on TV? There are approx 3 - 7 seconds delays between "live news video" and your area. Ask any professional cameraman. I know because I took two semsters in media during in HS. I also want to add that what you saw on TV does not mean that you got the full picture of what happened in reality.

John 8:45-46 "And because I ( Jesus ) tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? "

Romans 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

So, are you sayin' that Jesus' 12 disciples/apostles are liar who wrote that book ( bible ) ?
If, you say so that they are liar just, because of they are humans... you are sayin' that Jesus/God is a liar, too just because His disciples/apostles wrote that book ( bible ) through the Holy Ghost. You don't believe in Jesus/God. Period.

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

 

[Reba]

... Now, back to the Bible... the person writing the story was either there or he wrote from what someone else said.

They were each there. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John each wrote about the Last Supper in their respective Gospels.

... He didn't include other people that were present in the Last Supper.

In that case, the paintings would show more than 13 people. But only one of them did, and they were not sitting at the table. Also, even in that picture, they were all men.

Also, if that were the case, how would you explain the artists having more inside knowledge about the Last Supper than everyone else?

... Maybe, the painter based his creation on the word of another witness who witnessed different.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were present at the Last Supper. They were eye witnesses. They wrote their Gospels within 50 years of the event. Those painters didn't make their creations for another 1,400 years later.

 

[kuifje75]

I do not believe it is the inspired Word of God.

Exactly! The Mormons believe it is. And you don't. Would you call The Book of Mormon a work of fiction, which could parallel as the Bible being called a work of fiction?

 

[apathrev]

Exactly! The Mormons believe it is. And you don't. Would you call The Book of Mormon a work of fiction, which could parallel as the Bible being called a work of fiction?

What evidence is there that supports the Mormon book though? There is actual historical and archeological evidence to support the Bible as truth.

Not to say there aren't findings that discredit the Bible.

 

[Maria]

What evidence is there that supports the Mormon book though? There is actual historical and archeological evidence to support the Bible as truth.

Not to say there aren't findings that discredit the Bible.

I agree. They discredit God and made Him a liar, because they said the Bible is not the Word of God since it has many flaws to them. Sooo, it obviously that they believe that God don't exist, only the devil exists.

 

[mackietay]

Did they even have table clothes back then???

 

[kuifje75]

Cyberred, Ignorance knows no bounds.

 

[kuifje75]

What evidence is there that supports the Mormon book though? There is actual historical and archeological evidence to support the Bible as truth.

Not to say there aren't findings that discredit the Bible.

None whatsoever, but again, I am just presenting ideas for the sake of argument. Just that I chose the Book of Mormon instead of other books of other religions such as Buddhism, Shintoism, etc...

BTW I am a non-member of the LDS Church.

 

[Vance]

I agree. They discredit God and made Him a liar, because they said the Bible is not the Word of God since it has many flaws to them. Sooo, it obviously that they believe that God don't exist, only the devil exists.

*puzzled* That's the most odd interpretation of my perspective ever I've heard.

I do believe in God and Jesus but I don't believe in the Bible. Where did I say that God is a liar? That's your words, not mine. I stated that humans are imperfect creatures and the Bible were written by humans so therefore there are flaws in the Bible because of humans, not God. I don't see how can anyone just misinterpret my words... I just don't. Does #9 in Ten Commandments (Herbew) means anything to you? Here it is: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Did you just break God's one of Ten Commandments?

Reba, I want to reply two of your comments:

Well, duh! You aren't telling me anything new. I was a professional journalist before you were born. I have attended schools in basic journalism, photo journalism, feature writing, radio and TV broadcasting, media relations, and public affairs. I've been a staff reporter, editor, script writer, and media representative. In college, one of my courses was "Brainwashing and Propaganda" (I know you would love that one).

My point was, that art is not viewed with the same eye as one would view a news broadcast or documentary.

Good for you and do you want me to pat on your back or something? Or maybe want me to buy some candies for you? But yet it puzzled me why you brought up about "live news" without adding any information about delays?

About 'Brainwashing and Propaganda', indeed. I'd love to take that course to understand conservatives' mind and their method of brainwashing & propaganada. Perfect example: Fox News.

About souls, I met some christians who don't believe in God but only believe in Jesus. It is no difference from what you said about non-christians. As you may aware that I'm an ex-Christian yet I do believe in God & Jesus and I do believe that we have souls. I abandoned Christianity because of people like my father or Religious Right. If not for them, I wouldn't abandon Christianity. For the time being, all I need to do is believe in God & Jesus. I already accepted Jesus as my savior. That's more than enough for me. No one on this earth but God have the right to question about my beliefs. I sincerely hope that Religius Right get the message. Unless there is another Inquisition by Christians (More specific: Religious Right)

Not to say there aren't findings that discredit the Bible.

Not according to many theologists. I can post the links, names of books and such but it'll get nowhere because of anyone's beliefs (I've learned something from discussions around here, AD). I'd rather to conserve my time for something else instead of engage anyone into this 'discussion'. I'm here to correct someone else's misinterpretation and add few more comments, not to debate or discuss.

Cyberred, Ignorance knows no bounds.

I'm not sure who you think of but its depends on perspective. I'd say more but I think I'd better not before I'd offend anyone any further.


I recently asked myself, why did I just waste my time on this topic? Indeed. But I want to reply to AJ's topic to get in order to not get offtopic:

the story goes that God sacrificed his only son, Jesus so that we would all believe that there was a God and follow him.
i thought we were ALL Gods children. so.....if we're ALL Gods children then im God's son also....
so...Jesus wasn't God's only son. so why do they consider jesus the only son of god?

Good question. Since I haven't been reading or studying the Bible but I believe that God said we are his children. But again, it's been a while so I may be wrong. And I've been wondering... Supposedly that the Bible and the story about Adam and Eve is true, I gather that humans practice incest night and day 24 hours a day every day in the past or even, present. Or did Cain met a wife from other land that the Bible didn't mention to breed? Here's the verses that ... disturbed me greatly:

Genesis 5: 3 - 5

Gen 5:3 -- And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Gen 5:4 -- And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:5 -- And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Did the Bible just said that they practiced incest? I mean, how can they sex with women beside their own daughters to multiply? That's truly mind-blogging.

Okay, I'm so done with this topic unless someone 'bear false witness against thy neighbor' again.

 

[XBGMER]

All right, what sayeth thou about the Book of Mormon?

I do not believe it is the inspired Word of God.

Then now you wouldn't believe the inspired book Black american who wrote what he/ she who told the world that he/ she believed that all black americans who were slaves that evidently related in bibcial pattern, but you don't want to believe whom's belief and resouces.. Like you dont want to believe slave's history, rome's history and egypt's history, because those physical evidence are not related bible's history? you expect to believe bible only for jesus christ which is your new age. am I right!?

 

[Reba]

Then now you wouldn't believe the inspired book Black american who wrote what he/ she who told the world that he/ she believed that all black americans who were slaves that evidently related in bibcial pattern, but you don't want to believe whom's belief and resouces.. Like you dont want to believe slave's history, rome's history and egypt's history, because those physical evidence are not related bible's history? you expect to believe bible only for jesus christ which is your new age. am I right!?

I am saying that the Holy Bible is the only book inspired by God as His Word of Truth.

That doesn't mean other books don't have value. They just aren't the inspired inerrant complete Word of God.

Other books can contain truth, but they aren't The Truth of God.

That is IMHO.

I am not sure how that relates to your question about slavery. I have never denied that slavery existed, or that it was awful and wrong, or that sadly it still exists today in some parts of the world.

 

[Reba]

Reba, I want to reply two of your comments:

Good for you and do you want me to pat on your back or something? Or maybe want me to buy some candies for you?

No. You brought up your background in journalism to support your statement, so I gave you mine to support my statement. That's all.

But yet it puzzled me why you brought up about "live news" without adding any information about delays?

Because it wasn't relevant to the discussion. I wasn't trying to prove the accuracy of TV news; I was trying to show that art is not presented as "news".

About 'Brainwashing and Propaganda', indeed. I'd love to take that course to understand conservatives' mind and their method of brainwashing & propaganada.

As long as you don't ignore the portions of the course that covered the Nazis, Communists, Catholic Church, cults, advertising, and liberal groups.

 

[Maria]

*puzzled* That's the most odd interpretation of my perspective ever I've heard.

I do believe in God and Jesus but I don't believe in the Bible. Where did I say that God is a liar? That's your words, not mine. I stated that humans are imperfect creatures and the Bible were written by humans so therefore there are flaws in the Bible because of humans, not God. I don't see how can anyone just misinterpret my words... I just don't. Does #9 in Ten Commandments (Herbew) means anything to you? Here it is: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Did you just break God's one of Ten Commandments?

Well, your perspective and mine are different - I mean, really way way different. It doesn't mean that it is "odd" - it has to do with my experience when I was young in my 20's. God changed my perspective after I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour. And, also through the bible, I read TWICE from Genesis to Revelation. I walked through Christ's Word as He changed my thoughts to read His Thoughts. I used to be blind before I accepted Jesus Christ and I know nothin' about Him. And, I still read the bible since.
I don't think you understand what I mean about "God is a liar" part. I was tryin' to explain that without "believin' in His Word that was written in the bible" would interpret that God is a liar, just because some people were sayin' that there are some flaws in the bible. Jesus is NOT makin' up when He is "The Word"... that means He is the Truth, the Way and the Life. What part don't you understand about the Truth, the Way and the Life ?

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Can you explain what He really means about "the Truth, the Way, and the Life" in your own perspective ? Hmm ?

Jesus chose his apostles to write that book ( bible ) after He resurrected to return Heaven where He came from. Jesus never made mistakes.

I didn't say anythin' about 10 Commandments. You just did. I talked about people who think that the bible has its flaws just because of an errors by humans who wrote them...but, the truth is that "The Word" of God is NEVER an error. Jesus Himself is THE WORD of God. It is The Livin' Word that gives you The Life when you were formed in your mother's womb. It is "The Word" that has the power and it can change the whole world... that just came out of Jesus Christ's Mouth. Guess what ? All creatures ( animals ), trees, waters, and everythin' KNOW who Jesus Christ is since He created them. They have their own livin' cells and DNA. Trees, animals, waters and everythin' have their own sounds to please people for their own sake of sanity without them, people would have gone crazy, right ?? That's called "The Word" because it lives in Christ.

I have more to say to share with you, but I prefer not to - because, it is very HOT topic and, some people will NOT believe me... UNLESS, they experience it with God first. Experiencin' Him, then they will understand what my perspective is all about without unbelievin' me.

 

[Reba]

Well, your perspective and mine are different - I mean, really way way different. It doesn't mean that it is "odd" - it has to do with my experience when I was young in my 20's. God changed my perspective after I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour. ..
...some people will NOT believe me... UNLESS, they experience it with God first. Experiencin' Him, then they will understand what my perspective is all about without unbelievin' me.

 

[Askjo]

The mormon bible is other gospel! The Bible warned on Gal 1:6-12 :

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Therefore the mormon bible is a cult.