Jesus Wasn't Gods Only Son
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Correct.Cheri said:
Jesus was always God, even before He created the earth. Jesus left Heaven to come down to earth as a human baby. God did NOT create Jesus. God and Jesus were together, with the Holy Spirit, at Creation.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-4; 14
1 In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. . . 14 And the Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Reba said:
Ah Ok, When I was reading the bible, I came across about the young couple Joseph and Mary how the angel appeared to both of them and said that Mary had been selected by God to be the mother of the Messiah, that they were told that God's Spirit was inside of her, and that she would give birth to a son named Jesus, who would be the Savior of the world. So, Jesus was no ordinary baby? He was really God himself?
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God and Jesus are equally God. Jesus and God decided together that for the salvation of all people, they would take upon themselves a special relationship. God would be God-the-Father, and Jesus would be Jesus-the-Son. God would stay in Heaven while Jesus went to earth (voluntarily) in the form (human body) of a baby, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was still 100 percent God, but He was also 100 percent man during His time on earth.Cheri said:
Yes, it is very hard to understand. The concept of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is called the Trinity. It means 3-in-1, all equal but different. The concept of Jesus as full man and full God at the same time is called the hypostatic union. These are deep concepts that are really impossible for us to fully understand because they are related to God only. It is something that only God can do. We can never experience such a thing ourselves, so we can't relate to it. In a way, it is like explaining color and vision to someone who was born blind. We kind of understand, but not fully. We humans can't understand the concept of eternity (time that goes on forever and ever), or infinity in space (a universe that continues to expand outward with no boundaries). Our minds just can't fully grasp those things. That is because we have human minds. We don't have God's mind.
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Yes, Jesus was God. God required a perfect sinless sacrifice to save the sinners of the world. The only way to get a perfect sinless sacrifice was for Jesus to sacrifice Himself. All other people are born with a sin nature, inherited from the father, so they are not pure enough for the sacrifice. Jesus didn't have a human father, so He didn't inherit a sin nature. Mary became pregnant thru the Holy Spirit, not thru normal physical way.Cheri said:
Jesus is the Creator
Some other excellent verses (actually all verses are excellent
! ) concerning the truth that Jesus is truly God-truly man:
Colossians. 1:16-17, "For by him(Jesus) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him(Jesus), My Lord and my God."
John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 10:30 - (Jesus said) "I and the Father are one."
Colossians 2:9 - "For in Him(Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
Phil. 2:5-7 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men."
Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him(Jesus)."
Hebrews 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'" (Jesus is not an angel....the angels worship Him, even as a man on the earth.)
Romans 10:13- "for 'Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord(Jesus) will be saved.'" This is a direct quote from Joel 2:32, where the 'LORD' is JEHOVAH in the Hebrew. This one verse should eliminate ALL doubt.
Jesus clearly claimed to be God (John 8:58 [ref. Exodus 3:14], 10:25-38, 12:44-45, also Matthew 10:40, 28:18, Mark 14:60-62 [ref. Daniel 7:13-14], Luke 5:20-26, 6:50, 10:16, John 2:18-22, 5:17-23, 8:23, 13:13,19-20, 14:6-11, 17:5, Revelation 1:8, 22:12-13,16). Given this, there are three possibilities as to His identity. Either Jesus was (a) a liar, (b) a lunatic, or (c) who he claimed to be—Lord God.
There are many dozens if not hundreds of other verses to this same point. The New Testament makes it clear that Jesus is the creator, He is the only Savior (a title claimed by ONLY Jehovah in the old testament), He is worshiped by men and angels, He will be the judge of all men, He is eternal, He has neither 'beginning of days, nor end of life', He is the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, and MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR US -- He is the ONLY mediator between man and God. Amen
-Ktisis
Some other excellent verses (actually all verses are excellent
! ) concerning the truth that Jesus is truly God-truly man:Colossians. 1:16-17, "For by him(Jesus) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him(Jesus), My Lord and my God."
John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 10:30 - (Jesus said) "I and the Father are one."
Colossians 2:9 - "For in Him(Jesus) all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
Phil. 2:5-7 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men."
Matt. 2:2 - "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him(Jesus)."
Hebrews 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'" (Jesus is not an angel....the angels worship Him, even as a man on the earth.)
Romans 10:13- "for 'Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord(Jesus) will be saved.'" This is a direct quote from Joel 2:32, where the 'LORD' is JEHOVAH in the Hebrew. This one verse should eliminate ALL doubt.
Jesus clearly claimed to be God (John 8:58 [ref. Exodus 3:14], 10:25-38, 12:44-45, also Matthew 10:40, 28:18, Mark 14:60-62 [ref. Daniel 7:13-14], Luke 5:20-26, 6:50, 10:16, John 2:18-22, 5:17-23, 8:23, 13:13,19-20, 14:6-11, 17:5, Revelation 1:8, 22:12-13,16). Given this, there are three possibilities as to His identity. Either Jesus was (a) a liar, (b) a lunatic, or (c) who he claimed to be—Lord God.
There are many dozens if not hundreds of other verses to this same point. The New Testament makes it clear that Jesus is the creator, He is the only Savior (a title claimed by ONLY Jehovah in the old testament), He is worshiped by men and angels, He will be the judge of all men, He is eternal, He has neither 'beginning of days, nor end of life', He is the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, and MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR US -- He is the ONLY mediator between man and God. Amen
-Ktisis
Jesus was NOT the Messiah prophecized in the Old Testament. He didn't deliver what he promised in his generation. When his disciplines realized he didn't come back, they made up the Resurrection myth thus started the Christianity religion. The Old Testament was very clear - the Messiah will rule the nation, not rise from the dead. Resurrection is a pagan myth injected into the New Testament. That's why Jews today still don't accept Jesus as the Messiah (and they're darn right!).
And even to this day, Christians still think Jesus's coming. Just like Jews think the Messiah's coming.
Too bad they cannot let go of their false religious preconceptions.
-jeff
And even to this day, Christians still think Jesus's coming. Just like Jews think the Messiah's coming.
Too bad they cannot let go of their false religious preconceptions.
-jeff
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Well, Jeff - You are arguin' with Jesus about this. One day, your jaw will drop in a HUGE gap when you meet Jesus in person. Your mind will flash back to remember what you just said in this thread about "myth". Satan loves you for sayin' that in this thread. Good job, boy ! 
CyberRed said:Well, Jeff - You are arguin' with Jesus about this. One day, your jaw will drop in a HUGE gap when you meet Jesus in person. Your mind will flash back to remember what you just said in this thread about "myth". Satan loves you for sayin' that in this thread. Good job, boy !
I'm not arguing with Jesus, I am arguing with Xian loonies like you and Reba. Your comment is a perfect example of how close minded you are and demonstrates your willful ignorance. No matter how many times Muslims or Jews or Mormons argue saying that your beliefs are wrong, you will ALWAYS be right because you just don't understand them and you think you know the answers. And I tell you, I've read your postings and your messages reflect how little you know about God. Really.
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Jesus is always the answer. I am just plain walkin' in His Word to tell it. People have sooo many minds. Jesus has ONE mind - only ONE single mind and He is not a looney. Sorry to disappoint you, dude.
People who confused about God/Jesus have many minds - just because they can not think straight to understand God/Jesus. They just don't know what to believe, just because they heard soo many stories from man. If, your eyes have that kind of magnify to recognize Jesus very clear, then you will not call me or Reba a looney. I understand Jesus, because I already experienced Him.
I already experienced His Lights and saw a few scary things spiritually when He show me somethin'. I already experienced His Love and feel His GREAT healin' when my heart was broken in pieces. I already experienced His Lovin' Touch by His Hand - His Touch is not like a man/woman's touch. It's beyond than my own words I can not describe. I fully understood Him totally when I recognized His Word with magnifyin' glass ( my eyes thru His Lights ). I still love you as a person anyways.
People who confused about God/Jesus have many minds - just because they can not think straight to understand God/Jesus. They just don't know what to believe, just because they heard soo many stories from man. If, your eyes have that kind of magnify to recognize Jesus very clear, then you will not call me or Reba a looney. I understand Jesus, because I already experienced Him.
I already experienced His Lights and saw a few scary things spiritually when He show me somethin'. I already experienced His Love and feel His GREAT healin' when my heart was broken in pieces. I already experienced His Lovin' Touch by His Hand - His Touch is not like a man/woman's touch. It's beyond than my own words I can not describe. I fully understood Him totally when I recognized His Word with magnifyin' glass ( my eyes thru His Lights ). I still love you as a person anyways.
CyberRed said:
Girl, I am not talking about Jesus, I'm talking about you. He may be the answer FOR YOU, but not for all. People think of Jesus in zillions of ways and that's fine but you're obsessed with your own beliefs. You consistently praise Jesus for everything in your life and that's spooky.
You think the judgement is coming anytime. Face it, you don't know. I don't know. No one knows. Heck, even Jesus doesn't know himself. He said, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
-jeff
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Exactly. Many people think they know Jesus because they know about Him. That means, they know stories about Jesus, or they have read what "experts" say about Jesus. But they really don't know Him as an experience. Real knowledge means the personal experience of one-on-one relationship.CyberRed said:
The*Empress
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Jesus isn't a God, he is son of God.
He is the King of all Kings.
Yeah we are all God's children...
See if you adopted 3 children...
but you have a biological child already...
You would say all of them are your children,
but your biological child is your only child.
Get it? Now can we stop discussing this.
He is the King of all Kings.
Yeah we are all God's children...
See if you adopted 3 children...
but you have a biological child already...
You would say all of them are your children,
but your biological child is your only child.
Get it? Now can we stop discussing this.
The*Empress
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Step 1) The easiest way to answer the question: "Is Jesus God?" is by looking at what Jesus himself has said. If he had said "I am God", "I am God the Son " or "I am not God", then there would be no reason for this page to be online as the answer would have been very clear.
If we read the Bible, in all its 66 volumes of the Protestant versions, or in the 73 volumes of the Roman Catholic versions, there isn't a statement or a verse where Jesus directly says: “I am God”, "Worship me" or "I am God the Son". Assuming that Jesus is God Almighty, it would be somehow strange to believe that God Almighty inspired many scribes to write thousands and thousands of scripture, including detailed stories and songs, without mentioning that he (Jesus) is God Almighty -- a fundamental and important concept, in any verse.
Step 2) Analyze what Jesus has said about God Almighty.
Let us discuss some of the Bible verses where Jesus talks about God Almighty:
"I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." [John 5:30]
▪ In this verse, Jesus implies that he cannot do anything by himself and that he acts according to the will of the Father (God Almighty).
"For I have not spoken on my own initiative; but the Father Himself who sent me, has given me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." [John 12: 49]
▪ It is clear from the above verse that Jesus was given commandments from the Father (God Almighty), on what to say and speak.
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." [Mark 10:18]
If Jesus was God, why didn't he clarify this for him and say "I was challenging you, I myself am God and I am Good".
"And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God." [Luke 6:12]
▪ The above verse informs us that Jesus went to a mountain, and prayed to God Almighty.
"But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only" [Mathew 24:36]
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" [Mark 12:29]
"So Jesus answered them, 'My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me' " [John 7:16]
"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him." [NIV, Mark 1:12-13]
▪ According to the verse, Jesus was being tempted by Satan, for forty days. Assuming that Jesus is God, we are required to believe that God was tempted by Satan, which was created by God in the first place.
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' " [NIV, Matthew 4:8-10]
▪ If Jesus is God, would the Devil promise him that he will give him the kingdoms of the world (while the all kingdoms of the world belong to God) ?
▪ If Jesus is God, we believe he would have probably said "Thou shalt worship Me" instead "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God".
"But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
"My Father is greater than I" [John 14:28]
▪ In those verses, Jesus clearly states that God is greater than him, pointing out that he is not God. Furthermore, in [John 10:29], Jesus says "My Father is greater than all". Some argue and say: "The term greater refers to position, not nature, but the term 'better' refers to nature". Nevertheless, we believe such an explanation is not convincing and vague, since if Jesus is God, then his position must be the same position of God Almighty. It is worth mentioning that the Nicene creed states that "God the Father" and "God the Son" are "co-equal". Yet, this verse makes it very clear that "the Father" is greater than Jesus, implying that Jesus cannot be God Almighty.
The above verses conclude that Jesus clearly distinguished himself from God Almighty and states clearly that God is greater than him, used to command him, sent him and gave him the teachings, he prayed to God and that he is acting only according to the will of God and not to his own will. In addition, he was tempted by Satan and he never knew when would the hour come.
Step 3) Analyze the nature of Jesus in the Gospels.
The Gospels state that Jesus went through a great deal of human suffering. He was arrested by the Jews. He made an effort to run away in order to save himself. He was powerless, and defenseless; he was humiliated by the soldiers, then crucified and he cried aloud before his death, “O My God why have you forsaken me”. Jesus was shrouded and buried similar to any human being. Jesus used to eat, drink, get tired, rest and sleep. He experienced hunger, thirst, sadness, happiness, anger, pain, sorrow, fear, he was tempted by the devil similar to all human beings. There are innumerable verses in all the Gospels that prove Jesus was a mere human being, possessing all the human characteristics. We believe that God Almighty, would not possess the attributes of a human being with all of his liabilities to imperfections, deficiencies and weaknesses. Furthermore, the idea that a God, to whom people shall pray and praise, would need to visit a bathroom every now and then is just unacceptable. If Jesus was God Almighty, who created Adam peace be upon him, he would have atleast gave up the basic human needs, such as eating, drinking, sleeping and going to the bathroom. Also, if we assume that Jesus is God Almighty, and that he died, then we are assuming that God Almighty died saying "O My God! why have you forsaken me", and then God (who is still dead) raised God from the dead -- a confusing and illogical statement.
Since many have used Jesus' miracles to prove his divinity, we note that such reasoning is not logical, due to the fact that many prophets of God Almighty had miracles too. Thus, we would be required to believe that those prophets are also God, which is not logical.
All the prophets preceding Jesus mentioned clearly that there is only one God. They never said God Almighty is a Three-in-one God. Also, Jesus did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, as he said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. " [Matthew 5:17]. When he was asked about the first commandment he said "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" [Mark 12:29], he did not mention anything about a Trinity or a Three-in-One God.
The doctrine of Trinity is just unexplainable. Churchmen attempted to explain it without any success; so they called it "the mystery of mysteries". It was presented after Jesus left the earth by atleast 200 years, and it was not established on any logical proofs or evidences. It has caused confusion among many innocent hearts, while God Almighty is the Most Merciful and is not the author of confusion: "For God is not the author of confusion but of peace."[Corinthians 14:33].
Step 5) Analyze the term "Son of God"
What does the term "Son of God" that appears in both, the Old and New Testaments mean? Is Jesus the only "Son of God"? Answering those questions surely helps us in finding out if Jesus was God Almighty or not.
We read in the Bible that:
- Adam is the son of God, Luke[3:38]
- Suleiman is the son of God, Samuel[7:13-14]
- Jacob is the son of God, Exodus[4:22]
- Ephraim is God's firstborn, Jeremiah[31:9]
- Other people are "Sons of God", Job[38:7] : "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD".
Does this mean that Adam, Suleiman, Jajob, Ephraim and "other people" are sons of God ? "Son of God" in the language of the Jewish was a term used to describe a loyal servant of God Almighty. Jesus himself is quoted as saying, "Blessed are the peace-makers for they shall be called sons of God." [Matthew 5:9]
One can argue that the term given to Jesus in some versions of the Bible is different, that is, "the begotten son of God". Yet, The word begotten has been removed in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (that goes to the "most-ancient" manuscripts) by highly esteemed 32 Christian Biblical scholars backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations. Those schoalrs tell us (in the RSV) that through their study of recently discovered manuscripts of the Bible they have found many "grave and serious defects" in the King James Version of the Bible. You can verify this by reading the first few pages of the RSV, PREFACE page iii and iv.
In short, in the language of the Jews, the word "son" has a metaphoric meaning as well. Thus, the term "son of God" is used in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments to signify good, righteous people. We believe Jesus, Adam, Suleiman, Jacob, Ephraim and other people were considered sons of God, taking into consideration that the term "son of God" refers to a loyal servant and righteous person, and not a "physical" son of God Almighty.
If we read the Bible, in all its 66 volumes of the Protestant versions, or in the 73 volumes of the Roman Catholic versions, there isn't a statement or a verse where Jesus directly says: “I am God”, "Worship me" or "I am God the Son". Assuming that Jesus is God Almighty, it would be somehow strange to believe that God Almighty inspired many scribes to write thousands and thousands of scripture, including detailed stories and songs, without mentioning that he (Jesus) is God Almighty -- a fundamental and important concept, in any verse.
Step 2) Analyze what Jesus has said about God Almighty.
Let us discuss some of the Bible verses where Jesus talks about God Almighty:
"I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." [John 5:30]
▪ In this verse, Jesus implies that he cannot do anything by himself and that he acts according to the will of the Father (God Almighty).
"For I have not spoken on my own initiative; but the Father Himself who sent me, has given me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." [John 12: 49]
▪ It is clear from the above verse that Jesus was given commandments from the Father (God Almighty), on what to say and speak.
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." [Mark 10:18]
If Jesus was God, why didn't he clarify this for him and say "I was challenging you, I myself am God and I am Good".
"And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God." [Luke 6:12]
▪ The above verse informs us that Jesus went to a mountain, and prayed to God Almighty.
"But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only" [Mathew 24:36]
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" [Mark 12:29]
"So Jesus answered them, 'My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me' " [John 7:16]
"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him." [NIV, Mark 1:12-13]
▪ According to the verse, Jesus was being tempted by Satan, for forty days. Assuming that Jesus is God, we are required to believe that God was tempted by Satan, which was created by God in the first place.
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' " [NIV, Matthew 4:8-10]
▪ If Jesus is God, would the Devil promise him that he will give him the kingdoms of the world (while the all kingdoms of the world belong to God) ?
▪ If Jesus is God, we believe he would have probably said "Thou shalt worship Me" instead "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God".
"But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
"My Father is greater than I" [John 14:28]
▪ In those verses, Jesus clearly states that God is greater than him, pointing out that he is not God. Furthermore, in [John 10:29], Jesus says "My Father is greater than all". Some argue and say: "The term greater refers to position, not nature, but the term 'better' refers to nature". Nevertheless, we believe such an explanation is not convincing and vague, since if Jesus is God, then his position must be the same position of God Almighty. It is worth mentioning that the Nicene creed states that "God the Father" and "God the Son" are "co-equal". Yet, this verse makes it very clear that "the Father" is greater than Jesus, implying that Jesus cannot be God Almighty.
The above verses conclude that Jesus clearly distinguished himself from God Almighty and states clearly that God is greater than him, used to command him, sent him and gave him the teachings, he prayed to God and that he is acting only according to the will of God and not to his own will. In addition, he was tempted by Satan and he never knew when would the hour come.
Step 3) Analyze the nature of Jesus in the Gospels.
The Gospels state that Jesus went through a great deal of human suffering. He was arrested by the Jews. He made an effort to run away in order to save himself. He was powerless, and defenseless; he was humiliated by the soldiers, then crucified and he cried aloud before his death, “O My God why have you forsaken me”. Jesus was shrouded and buried similar to any human being. Jesus used to eat, drink, get tired, rest and sleep. He experienced hunger, thirst, sadness, happiness, anger, pain, sorrow, fear, he was tempted by the devil similar to all human beings. There are innumerable verses in all the Gospels that prove Jesus was a mere human being, possessing all the human characteristics. We believe that God Almighty, would not possess the attributes of a human being with all of his liabilities to imperfections, deficiencies and weaknesses. Furthermore, the idea that a God, to whom people shall pray and praise, would need to visit a bathroom every now and then is just unacceptable. If Jesus was God Almighty, who created Adam peace be upon him, he would have atleast gave up the basic human needs, such as eating, drinking, sleeping and going to the bathroom. Also, if we assume that Jesus is God Almighty, and that he died, then we are assuming that God Almighty died saying "O My God! why have you forsaken me", and then God (who is still dead) raised God from the dead -- a confusing and illogical statement.
Since many have used Jesus' miracles to prove his divinity, we note that such reasoning is not logical, due to the fact that many prophets of God Almighty had miracles too. Thus, we would be required to believe that those prophets are also God, which is not logical.
All the prophets preceding Jesus mentioned clearly that there is only one God. They never said God Almighty is a Three-in-one God. Also, Jesus did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, as he said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. " [Matthew 5:17]. When he was asked about the first commandment he said "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" [Mark 12:29], he did not mention anything about a Trinity or a Three-in-One God.
The doctrine of Trinity is just unexplainable. Churchmen attempted to explain it without any success; so they called it "the mystery of mysteries". It was presented after Jesus left the earth by atleast 200 years, and it was not established on any logical proofs or evidences. It has caused confusion among many innocent hearts, while God Almighty is the Most Merciful and is not the author of confusion: "For God is not the author of confusion but of peace."[Corinthians 14:33].
Step 5) Analyze the term "Son of God"
What does the term "Son of God" that appears in both, the Old and New Testaments mean? Is Jesus the only "Son of God"? Answering those questions surely helps us in finding out if Jesus was God Almighty or not.
We read in the Bible that:
- Adam is the son of God, Luke[3:38]
- Suleiman is the son of God, Samuel[7:13-14]
- Jacob is the son of God, Exodus[4:22]
- Ephraim is God's firstborn, Jeremiah[31:9]
- Other people are "Sons of God", Job[38:7] : "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD".
Does this mean that Adam, Suleiman, Jajob, Ephraim and "other people" are sons of God ? "Son of God" in the language of the Jewish was a term used to describe a loyal servant of God Almighty. Jesus himself is quoted as saying, "Blessed are the peace-makers for they shall be called sons of God." [Matthew 5:9]
One can argue that the term given to Jesus in some versions of the Bible is different, that is, "the begotten son of God". Yet, The word begotten has been removed in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (that goes to the "most-ancient" manuscripts) by highly esteemed 32 Christian Biblical scholars backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations. Those schoalrs tell us (in the RSV) that through their study of recently discovered manuscripts of the Bible they have found many "grave and serious defects" in the King James Version of the Bible. You can verify this by reading the first few pages of the RSV, PREFACE page iii and iv.
In short, in the language of the Jews, the word "son" has a metaphoric meaning as well. Thus, the term "son of God" is used in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments to signify good, righteous people. We believe Jesus, Adam, Suleiman, Jacob, Ephraim and other people were considered sons of God, taking into consideration that the term "son of God" refers to a loyal servant and righteous person, and not a "physical" son of God Almighty.
All religious people say they have the "experience" and you know what? It's not just Jesus, it's also in many religions. Buddhists have the "experience" - they go into the state of nirvana and they say they experience nothing like they've experienced. You cannot expereince the true Nirvana unless you accept its Buddist teachings.
I went through a phase when I believed the Lord was speaking to me. Thankfully, I was being honest with myself and realized that my own Jesus experience does not necessarily make it true.
What people don't really understand is that our minds are so powerful that they can affect our outcomes. For example, if I tell you that this pill will make you feel happy, you will likely to feel better even if the pill is nothing but a sugar pill. It's all in your mind. (don't get this wrong, 'all in your mind' does not mean weakness - it's very powerful and sometimes difficult to control). Placebo effects has been observed in virtually all drug trials.
The Bible is a placebo - it gives a person a false sense of well being. Many sick people feel better just believing that there is someone out there caring for them. Just praying can produce a profound effect on them. Transcendental Meditation has been proven to improve health by lowering the blood pressure and heart rate. Biofeedback also works well.
The power of mind is strong and religious people think it's God talking to them when in reality, it's their minds talking to them.
-jeff
Miss*Pinocchio,
I totally agree. I never believed Jesus was God. He was the "son of God" but I tell you, Xian fundies won't accept that. They will do anything to validate their beliefs that Jesus is God and they will cite several verses supporting their belief but their arguments never appealed to me.
Same with Mormons.. they're so brainwashed to believe that the book of Mormon is true even though the evidence is non-existent. They believe Mormons are saved while non-Mormons aren't.
Funny that Reba did "brainwashing and propanganda" yet she doesn't even realize she's brainwashed. Propanganda is so powerful and can be so subtle that people don't notice it.
-jeff
I totally agree. I never believed Jesus was God. He was the "son of God" but I tell you, Xian fundies won't accept that. They will do anything to validate their beliefs that Jesus is God and they will cite several verses supporting their belief but their arguments never appealed to me.
Same with Mormons.. they're so brainwashed to believe that the book of Mormon is true even though the evidence is non-existent. They believe Mormons are saved while non-Mormons aren't.
Funny that Reba did "brainwashing and propanganda" yet she doesn't even realize she's brainwashed. Propanganda is so powerful and can be so subtle that people don't notice it.
-jeff
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Reba said:
*nods* Yes, you are right. I am real glad that I already experienced Him. When I experienced Him, I find Him very attractive - maybe, that word "attractive" is not the right word, but it's more than beautiful - I would say it's a "heaven" word, not this earth word. I honestly can not describe it. I was in awe of Him when I experienced Him. My mind understood when I experienced Him, but my mind can't find the right words to describe what it was like to experience Him. My mind is very limit, but my mind can understand the "whole" picture on its own without an explanation. He didn't have to explain it, He just SHOW it to me. The feelin' was very peaceful and serene - most of it was GREAT Joy. I remember one time when I saw there was a beautiful orange cloud - I smiled when I saw it and said to Jesus "It's beautiful"..knowin' that it was His real Life of Art. He knows how to please the mind. It proves that He really loves you, me and everyone.
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