Is it worth to be "oral"?

[kokonut]

True. But it all comes down to one's own attitude, which decides for itself. Even if technology has greatly improved since then, there's still a lack of awareness and the issue with ableism. One way to solve this is to demonstrate with what we ourselves are capable of, only except hearing.

I would disagree with you somewhat. DEmonstrating what we are capable of including our ability to hear and understand the spoken words as long as limitations are realized by the deaf/hh person, the parents and to the rest of the people thru education and awareness.

 

[Frisky Feline]

True. But it all comes down to one's own attitude, which decides for itself. Even if technology has greatly improved since then, there's still a lack of awareness and the issue with ableism. One way to solve this is to demonstrate with what we ourselves are capable of, only except hearing.

I would disagree with you somewhat. DEmonstrating what we are capable of including our ability to hear and understand the spoken words as long as limitations are realized by the deaf/hh person, the parents and to the rest of the people thru education and awareness.

Indeed, all of your rights to have opinions as well as experiences based on your life. Koko did go to galludet (deaf college) in a short time and he had experiences there but upbringing in a hearing world (correct?) while sylbea (has been in hearing world for so long) has not been socializes with ASL or BSL users yet or not much.

 

[caz12]

Indeed, all of your rights to have opinions as well as experiences based on your life. Koko did go to galludet (deaf college) in a short time and he had experiences there but upbringing in a hearing world (correct?) while sylbea (has been in hearing world for so long) has not been socializes with ASL or BSL users yet or not much.

depending where you are not as easy in uk but that my opinion and experience,others may disagree,i live in an area where it difficult to socialize and have no transport but for sylbea it should not be so hard...deaf clubs are not so many and can be difficult if not signer but that one best ways but up to her which way she finds

 

[sylbea]

I was in the deaf school system during the first several years until I was 100% mainstreamed starting in grade 9 in a hearing high school. Due to lack of ASL exposure, I lost most of it. Long story short my parents kept me away from my deaf/HoH friends. My parents decided it.

I'm mostly oral today because of where I live. I don't live in an urban area.

That must be quite the transition. How do you feel about it?

 

[sylbea]

I would disagree with you somewhat. DEmonstrating what we are capable of including our ability to hear and understand the spoken words as long as limitations are realized by the deaf/hh person, the parents and to the rest of the people thru education and awareness.

Indeed, all of your rights to have opinions as well as experiences based on your life. Koko did go to galludet (deaf college) in a short time and he had experiences there but upbringing in a hearing world (correct?) while sylbea (has been in hearing world for so long) has not been socializes with ASL or BSL users yet or not much.

I meant that education could be a means of demonstrating our capability, and that still asks of the person to decide its worth, and that can affect the whole outcome. What happens once you graduate and enter the working world? Sign language will be an asset for sure, but there still remains discrimination at large... for that, we need education. For education, we need to demonstrate what we know for them to learn. To know, we have these limitations. To appreciate them is a different matter - some may choose to view it as cultural, while others stick to mainstream with the help of technology - it's a known fact that there's been a clash over what it means to be "deaf" and "Deaf", or even "HOH" for the matter.

Feline has put it right, we all have different experiences to start with. I was completely mainstreamed so I've never been to deaf school nor involved in the deaf community, perhaps because I've already identified as oralist by then. I recognise there will always be challenges ahead of us, but so will opportunities. Personally I'd like to learn sign language for a better understanding of the matter and whether or not it was a good decision to be oral from an early age.

 

[sylbea]

do you live Suffolk,i went deaf early 30's so transition alto devastating,i remain thinking as heari foot in both worlds..Where i live and within family no bsl users but time spent in london enable me go deaf clubs more relaxing bsl
places like City Lit are helpful,i went to a place in Eastbourne where you take the person you most likely to sign with..The places not easy to get into..i live isolated life better that than paranoid.
there is signing choirs which i not struck on i find mostly hearing go or deaf Jesus fans and that not for me...
there bsl club in norwich most are hearies and unless you are level 3 or more then no have you in i am told...makes no sense a deaf person unable to join,it sickened me be told that and will not go, also far from me.
good luck

depending where you are not as easy in uk but that my opinion and experience,others may disagree,i live in an area where it difficult to socialize and have no transport but for sylbea it should not be so hard...deaf clubs are not so many and can be difficult if not signer but that one best ways but up to her which way she finds

Seems there's also the issue with distance and not just the language barrier. It's not that evenly distributed here in the UK except for the big cities.

I have no knowledge at all of BSL, but I'm willing to learn it so I can make a better connection with the deaf and new experiences will follow.

 

[sheri363]

That must be quite the transition. How do you feel about it?

That's a good question. As you mentioned you're an introvert just as I am. I believe that high school did this to me. I was an extrovert before I was mainstreamed. I had lots of friends. In high school? Maybe a couple that I would call friends. Anyhow to answer your question as to how I feel about it. I wish that I had the best of both worlds. Education AND a robust social life. This is how I feel. Being mainstreamed by and large comes with a steep cost to your emotional intelligence quotient (EQ).

I have a question or two for you if you don't mind.

Question #1- Did you have an FM system in place either in school or at home or both? Did you have access to school note takers?

Question #2- This is kinda a biggie for you. Do you think there's a chance that your EQ would be higher if you were raised with a full toolbox? Please don't get me wrong ok? I'm not saying your EQ is low. You seem to be doing well considering your hearing loss.

 

[SilentRider]

For me it was a survival reason. When I noticed interpreters don't always get what you're trying to say.. and the depending on them.. I wanted to be free and independent. So learning how to talk even though took up alot of my brain, its enabled me to have a job I otherwise would not have got if I couldn't talk. So ask yourself what do u want in life? Go pursue it. If I lived in Mexico I would have learned Spanish. Get my point?

 

[Grizz]

I don't see a reason against being oral and using ASL. I really want to point out something that should be considered from the start. You being deaf, HoH or however you want to identify is all up to you. There are no rules for yourself other than the ones you make.

How you choose to converse with others, who you hang out with, hearies, deafies, makes no difference to anyone other than you, and if it does make an issue for someone else, piss on 'em, they can hump a stump.

I'm plugging along slowly, at my own pace, I sign (as best I can) and speak to other deaf people. If a hearing person isn't paying attention to me when I am speaking, I'll sign more and speak less, it drives the point home "Hey Bozo, look at and listen to me" or you'll be lost as to what I am trying to say to you, god knows I am lost at what you're trying to say to me, so, screw it, I'll share the awesomeness of the impasse, in the end, everyone figures out something.

 

[kokonut]

I meant that education could be a means of demonstrating our capability, and that still asks of the person to decide its worth, and that can affect the whole outcome. What happens once you graduate and enter the working world? Sign language will be an asset for sure, but there still remains discrimination at large... for that, we need education. For education, we need to demonstrate what we know for them to learn. To know, we have these limitations. To appreciate them is a different matter - some may choose to view it as cultural, while others stick to mainstream with the help of technology - it's a known fact that there's been a clash over what it means to be "deaf" and "Deaf", or even "HOH" for the matter.

Feline has put it right, we all have different experiences to start with. I was completely mainstreamed so I've never been to deaf school nor involved in the deaf community, perhaps because I've already identified as oralist by then. I recognise there will always be challenges ahead of us, but so will opportunities. Personally I'd like to learn sign language for a better understanding of the matter and whether or not it was a good decision to be oral from an early age.

Many of us already recognize the challenges and difficulties in various settings. Those things are not lost on us. Also, we choose how we identify ourselves as. No one deaf or hh group has the right nor the monopoly to define what other deaf or hh people should be identified as.

 

[deafdyke]

That's a good question. As you mentioned you're an introvert just as I am. I believe that high school did this to me. I was an extrovert before I was mainstreamed. I had lots of friends. In high school? Maybe a couple that I would call friends. Anyhow to answer your question as to how I feel about it. I wish that I had the best of both worlds. Education AND a robust social life. This is how I feel. Being mainstreamed by and large comes with a steep cost to your emotional intelligence quotient (EQ).

I have a question or two for you if you don't mind.

Question #1- Did you have an FM system in place either in school or at home or both? Did you have access to school note takers?

Question #2- This is kinda a biggie for you. Do you think there's a chance that your EQ would be higher if you were raised with a full toolbox? Please don't get me wrong ok? I'm not saying your EQ is low. You seem to be doing well considering your hearing loss.

Did you experiance inclusion?
I REALLY wish that instead of inclusion, they would do stuff like encourage dhh programs at hearing schools...........middle and high school are tough enough when you're hearing.....You are so right....inclusion/mainstreaming really does rob you of the chance to REALLY develop your EQ.....and that is a really important piece of the puzzle.......did you know a key to getting good jobs is social emotional development? Good education is only a part of the puzzle.

 

[caz12]

Seems there's also the issue with distance and not just the language barrier. It's not that evenly distributed here in the UK except for the big cities.

I have no knowledge at all of BSL, but I'm willing to learn it so I can make a better connection with the deaf and new experiences will follow.

this is true..
the only signers in my town are two boys teenager brothers,the parents kept them in main stream education bsl frowned on by parents,no expectations for them so all they do is pick shopping baskets up in local asda..i always bsl when i see them and they happy to see me and eager to learn...they themselves are bitter their parents no encouraged it and boys resigned to a life with no low expectations....only so much i can do both them and myself need own peer group

 

[deafdyke]

It's not about access to a "culture" but communication access. It's really about developing aural and oral skills, and not just oral skills only. Having a hearing aid or cochlear implant provide the necessary feedback when it comes to developing oral skills.

Sorry,that's completly wrong......It IS true at Schools and programs for the Deaf....They promote speech as a useful skill,one among MANY! Whereas at the oral/speech schools it's implied that a strict oral approach will somehow magically assimulate dhh students into the hearing world....Look at all the language used on oral only school sites...its all "our kids don't depend" on ASL.....they don't "need" it...it's not about an additional skill....it's about being audist and ableist!

 

[deafdyke]

and the thing is NO amount of oral training is going to turn a dhh kid into a hearing kid....HOH kids STILL say they don't feel like they fit in,and experiance ALL of the downsides of oral only......we get mildly HOH kids posting here describing the exact same stuff as deafer kids went through......
That says something...heck,I have postlingal friends who weren't fond of oralism/mainstreaming...........

 

[sheri363]

Did you experiance inclusion?
I REALLY wish that instead of inclusion, they would do stuff like encourage dhh programs at hearing schools...........middle and high school are tough enough when you're hearing.....You are so right....inclusion/mainstreaming really does rob you of the chance to REALLY develop your EQ.....and that is a really important piece of the puzzle.......did you know a key to getting good jobs is social emotional development? Good education is only a part of the puzzle.

Hi deafdyke!

Wow! Ok... I'm gonna just type along, trying to put my thoughts together to answer your though provoking questions. I don't know where I'm going so please forgive me if I end up rambling! Yes, definitely, dhh programs would be of great assistance in developing our EQs. I didn't have access to one as I was the only one in the school. I had access to one for the first time in college and I gotta tell you it was a godsend, a lifesaver.

I wasn't aware of the importance of healthy EQ back then. I certainly wasn't aware of its importance in the job place then either. I had made so many social goofs on jobsites...the hearies must've thought I was weird! Many of them thought I was stupid too and that had really rankled me to no end. Anyway I'm rambling a bit here, gotta get back on topic. Ok yes, developing EQ is very important and I think that mainstreaming without dhh programs in place and without dhh peers are just wrong. One can have all the technology, all the bells and whistles attached but what about the... ummm... sh*t, what's the word? Intangibles? Important stuff/feelings we can't touch/can't see but they're there? Intangibles right? Yes! Intangibles! We need the intangibles plus the technology in place!

You asked if I experienced inclusion. No I didn't. Just straight mainstreaming, right into grade nine as if I was one of the hearie kids. However I was integrated part time in junior high prior to walking into the high school.

 

[Mewtilation]

Was raised with ASL and sent to Vocal Therapy from a young age. The ability to speak "clearly" ( as clear as a deaf person can speak being born deaf ) is definitely beneficial to me, but I personally am voice off in most circumstances unless I need to speak. To each their own, whatever suits you better, go for it. :P

 

[Bebonang]

For me, the answer is no.

I was born deaf and did not learn how to talk until I was 8 or 9 years old. I hate speech therapy as it was forced on me to speak. That was what hearing people (both mainstream schools and my hearing parents) expected me to speak in oral. I have funny voice and I speak with loud voice. I learned that hearing people told me that I spoke very well and don't think my voice was not funny. They do admitted that my voice was loud. I would rather not say nothing and just sign ASL.

In mainstream schools (hearing classes) there was no accommodations for the deaf and hard of hearing kids like me and it was very hard to understand what the hearing teachers and hearing students talked about. They expected us to lipread as excellent lipreaders which I was not. I get lost a lot of their conversations. I never got good grades in hearing classes until I went to Seattle Community College with a Deaf program. I learned how to sign right after I graduated from high school. Boy, that lifted my chest and shoulder and felt soo happy to learned Ameslan (later change to American Sign Language (ASL)). I got good grades at Seattle Central Community College and other college except one on the island where I could not get certified ASL interpreter on the island back then.

No, I was not happy being an oralist. It is still hard to understand in the hearing society. UGH!!!

 

[kokonut]

Sorry,that's completly wrong......It IS true at Schools and programs for the Deaf....They promote speech as a useful skill,one among MANY! Whereas at the oral/speech schools it's implied that a strict oral approach will somehow magically assimulate dhh students into the hearing world....Look at all the language used on oral only school sites...its all "our kids don't depend" on ASL.....they don't "need" it...it's not about an additional skill....it's about being audist and ableist!

Using one's voice is natural. Over time speaking becomes automatic and natural. For some it does require a bit of skill to achieve that while others it comes much more easily and naturally for them across the wide spectrum of hearing loss. It'd be better to have oral/aural approaches to compliment with one of the visual communication methods (SEE, ASL, Cued speech, etc) for many of them.

 

[Mewtilation]

I have family members like me who were born deaf and never went to voc therapy. They still use their voices when they speak at times. You can't understand a DAMN thing they say, but they still use it even though they sign. I don't think using your voice is just taught to the deaf in schools, it's a natural part of us and we can use it or not depending on one's personal preferences.

 

[Bebonang]

Using one's voice is natural. Over time speaking becomes automatic and natural. For some it does require a bit of skill to achieve that while others it comes much more easily and naturally for them across the wide spectrum of hearing loss. It'd be better to have oral/aural approaches to compliment with one of the visual communication methods (SEE, ASL, Cued speech, etc) for many of them.

Kokonut, as far as I am concern that you are the most audist person I have ever met for many subjects (comments) past and present. You don't know the heck on what we have tried to explain for years ever since you came on AD. :roll: :P