Is it worth to be "oral"?

[kokonut]

I've been asking myself this for a while now, and would like for this to be the place where you can discuss your own experiences of adjusting to the "hearing" world, and the obstacles you have had to endure, and whether you consider yourself "oral" or among the Deaf, or both.

I'm severe-to-profoundly deaf, underwent intensive speech therapy and have been mainstreamed into university now. I've experienced bouts of isolation due to communication problems and social anxiety over how they perceive my deafness and difficulties with speech, and my other issues concerning my own introverted nature and mindset.

My resolution is to learn sign language for the first time (specifically BSL, as I live in the country), so that it opens up another door and get the best of both worlds. It's a consolation as to how communication doesn't have to be verbal. Take Helen Keller's achievements, for example.

Whether or not it is worth it to be oral, that is up to you. Some may identify with being oralists like myself, some may not. Feel free to share, I imagine there will be others who can learn from this.

For some people the term "oral" is seen/defined differently by some people. It could be "oral" as in without auditory inputs or "oral" where auditory input (aural) provide the necessary feedback to hear oneself enunciate properly the consonants, vowels, and the modulation and inflection of the voice. Typically I would put down both oral and aural (oral/aural) together just to be clear since it does not make a lot a sense to me on learning how to speak if one does not have the necessary auditory feedback to learn. Also, the amount of hearing loss, type of hearing loss, parental involvement, and early intervention all play a role on helping develop speaking skills.

 

[Beowulf]

"Necessary" auditory feedback? Are you sure? My speech is excellent enough for me to pass as a hearing person, and I didn't have the auditory training discussed in this thread while growing up.
Anyway, it seems to me a silly question, "is it worth it to be oral?" We may as well revive the argument over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[deafdyke]

Right, speaking is a tool. BUT.... for us it never becomes natural, no matter how much training and practice we undergo. Speaking for us never becomes a well oiled muscle that can be used unconsciously. You're right a bike does become 2nd nature. Our legs just pump along..we don't have to think about it. Our leg muscles simply memorize from repetition. They become well oiled per se. We on the other hand have to think about our speech constantly because we basically can't hear most or all of the consonants. Think about this ok? "I can hear you but I don't understand what you said!!" Sounds familiar? If we can't hear most of the alphabet, even when aided, then how can our speech become natural extensions of ourselves? It's just a frigging flawed tool for us.

EXACTLY! Hearing and speaking for US is EXACTLY the way speaking a foriegn language is for hearing people.....We will NEVER ever be as good as a hearing person with spoken language...even those of us with a "flair" for spoken language will ALWAYS lag behind hearing people! It's exactly like the way my friend Sarah who attended a bilingal (French/English) class can get along very well in French BUT, she's never going to do as well as a NATIVE French speaker....It IS a FACT that EVEN HOH children are still at a disadvantage even compared to hearing children.....Speech and hearing is a WEAKNESS..........

 

[Mewtilation]

I have no weaknesses. You're only weak if you admit to being weak to something. A weakness is something you surrender to. You admit to being weak at something, you aren't "just weak" at something. Speech and hearing are not weaknesses, they are what you make of them. Your friend could do as well as a Native French speaker if she applied herself and busted her arse. I know I've met terps who learned ASL later in life and they were just as good as I was. Some of them I asked if they were CODA's or deaf themselves they were that good at ASL. People limit themselves by saying they'll never be as good, and that's the kind of attitude that gets you nowhere in life. Period.

 

[kokonut]

I have no weaknesses. You're only weak if you admit to being weak to something. A weakness is something you surrender to. You admit to being weak at something, you aren't "just weak" at something. Speech and hearing are not weaknesses, they are what you make of them. Your friend could do as well as a Native French speaker if she applied herself and busted her arse. I know I've met terps who learned ASL later in life and they were just as good as I was. Some of them I asked if they were CODA's or deaf themselves they were that good at ASL. People limit themselves by saying they'll never be as good, and that's the kind of attitude that gets you nowhere in life. Period.

Yes, it is a matter of applying yourself while for others speaking is easy. People need to avoid generalizing a group (e.g. "we this" or "we that") as if they are the same. Each person is different in his or her capabilites and the willingness to achieve. There are plenty of people with hearing loss who speak just fine like any other hearing people.

 

[sheri363]

Yes, it is a matter of applying yourself while for others speaking is easy. People need to avoid generalizing a group (e.g. "we this" or "we that") as if they are the same. Each person is different in his or her capabilites and the willingness to achieve. There are plenty of people with hearing loss who speak just fine like any other hearing people.

Ugh...

 

[kokonut]

Ugh...

Each of us with hearing loss ranging from mild to profound do have different capabilities on what we can do. THere are other factors that can make a difference. We are certainly different in what we can do or are capable of. just because one can does not mean others can do the same thing as the next person.

 

[dogmom]

It is -not- always a matter of "applying oneself"

as a general example <not making a direct correlation between LD and hearing levels> telling me, as a person with learning disability, to "just try harder" because my weakness in math and other LD-related things is not 'really' a weakness - that's crap-

and for me, speech has always been a weakness, I was in speech therapy for many years.

 

[MangaReader]

I have no weaknesses. You're only weak if you admit to being weak to something. A weakness is something you surrender to. You admit to being weak at something, you aren't "just weak" at something. Speech and hearing are not weaknesses, they are what you make of them. Your friend could do as well as a Native French speaker if she applied herself and busted her arse. I know I've met terps who learned ASL later in life and they were just as good as I was. Some of them I asked if they were CODA's or deaf themselves they were that good at ASL. People limit themselves by saying they'll never be as good, and that's the kind of attitude that gets you nowhere in life. Period.

It's hell alot easier and very possible for a hearing person to learn ASL and be AS GOOD as a deaf person but a deaf person CANNOT be as good as a hearing person in speaking no matter how hard they try. I'm talking about a deaf person. HOH is a different story because they have some hearing left to be able to speak better.

So to compare a hearing person conquering the master skill of ASL to a deaf person mastering perfect speech is a poor example of weakness in my opinion.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Hearing people dont sign very well like in my family that they live with me for YEARS.. same deal for Deaf people who can speak or dont. For example, i do not speak well but i only can speak bad words or small words thats what heairng people sign.. same deal .

 

[kokonut]

It's hell alot easier and very possible for a hearing person to learn ASL and be AS GOOD as a deaf person but a deaf person CANNOT be as good as a hearing person in speaking no matter how hard they try. I'm talking about a deaf person. HOH is a different story because they have some hearing left to be able to speak better.

So to compare a hearing person conquering the master skill of ASL to a deaf person mastering perfect speech is a poor example of weakness in my opinion.

No such thing as "perfect speech" for either a hearing person ora person with some hearing loss.

 

[deafdyke]

No such thing as "perfect speech" for either a hearing person ora person with some hearing loss.

Then how come virtually ALL dhh kids are in speech to try to sound as good as a hearing person?!?!
WHY? Why is that good? I mean I clearly remember a post by someone who said it is possible to get rid of a deaf accent?!?!?!? Some very rarely gifted kids MAY be able to sound like a hearing person....but again WHY is that a good thing? With all the effort and energy it takes to hear and speak.....EVEN for those with a flair for oral skills, a lot of stuff is being sacrificed......EFFORTLESS CONTENT.............

 

[deafdyke]

It's hell alot easier and very possible for a hearing person to learn ASL and be AS GOOD as a deaf person but a deaf person CANNOT be as good as a hearing person in speaking no matter how hard they try. I'm talking about a deaf person. HOH is a different story because they have some hearing left to be able to speak better.

So to compare a hearing person conquering the master skill of ASL to a deaf person mastering perfect speech is a poor example of weakness in my opinion.

Even HOH kids cannot speak as well as a hearing person.........Most if not all HOH kids still stay in speech for mechanical issues (ie pitch,volumne,tone, articulation) Very few actually MASTER every aspect of speech....Virtually all of the kids who sign off on speech aren't doing so b/c they've mastered speech,but b/c they've admitted that "this is as far as we can go...It's too difficult to expect a dhh kid to have "like hearing" speech.

 

[deafdyke]

Yes, it is a matter of applying yourself while for others speaking is easy. People need to avoid generalizing a group (e.g. "we this" or "we that") as if they are the same. Each person is different in his or her capabilites and the willingness to achieve. There are plenty of people with hearing loss who speak just fine like any other hearing people.

Were they born or early deafened? Even late deafened people often have "deaf voices"

 

[Mewtilation]

I was born with very little hearing. My family was told I was profoundly deaf by age 3... so what tiny hearing I had didn't last long. I did not get a C.I. until I was in my 20's. I'm now 27, and through all the years of voc therapy prior and after my implant, some people do not believe I am deaf the way I speak. I get asked if I have an accent, but not a deaf voice or anything of the sort. ( I do have an accent as I grew up speaking Romanian and English while learning ASL. ) but for people to tell me they can't believe I'm deaf or whatever because of how clear my voice is, I think I'll stick to each individual being different, and that it IS in fact possible to learn to speak clearly.

 

[MangaReader]

Even HOH kids cannot speak as well as a hearing person.........Most if not all HOH kids still stay in speech for mechanical issues (ie pitch,volumne,tone, articulation) Very few actually MASTER every aspect of speech....Virtually all of the kids who sign off on speech aren't doing so b/c they've mastered speech,but b/c they've admitted that "this is as far as we can go...It's too difficult to expect a dhh kid to have "like hearing" speech.

I agree. I just didn't want to say the wrong thing with my comment. But I wasn't sure either. Thanks for clarifying what I figured.

 

[kokonut]

Were they born or early deafened? Even late deafened people often have "deaf voices"

You need to remember that the range of hearing loss can range from mild to profound. other factors would be the age of early intervention when one gets a hearing aid or ci, parental involvement, and so on. HH kids can and do speak as well as their hearing peers.I see it all the time. The term "late deafened" simply means one who loses some hearing do not necessarily mean they'd have a "deaf voice." It all depends on the severity of hearing loss and quick intervention in getting a hearing aid or ci.

Before you make a broad, broad and overly assumptive position that all hh or deaf kids or adults cannot speak as well as their hearing peers I suggest you or somebody who can take their time and visits these HLAA events and talk to these people. best time would be to attend one of the Walk4Hearing annual event nearby one of your cities. You'd be surprised.

Even YouTube have many, many examples of kids, teens or adults who talk just as well as their hearing peers. Look up the British people they have their British accent. Look up kids or people from India who have their Indian accents. Australia, too. And so on. Even in the United States I have met kids who have a strong southern accent. As with most things speaking ability or skill varies and many do speak just as well as the next hearing person.

 

[deafdyke]

, I think I'll stick to each individual being different, and that it IS in fact possible to learn to speak clearly.

We're NOT saying that it's impossible to develop good spoken language skills if you're dhh.....we're saying that it's overall very rare for a childhood dhh person to acheive "like hearing" speech........Everyone is different yes.....but even many HOH folks still have deaf accents and deaf vocal mannerisms....
Some kids can develop oral abilty...........So what? I have seen kids with good oral skills.....they don't have a HUGE advantage over those who don't....They STILL face almost all the same discrimination, and negative social attitudes as do those with not so good speech....hell,I have EXCELLENT speech. I have even been told I don't talk like a deaf person!?!?!? .....heck those with good oral skills often get accused of faking it or pretending to be dhh..... It just means they have a flair for oral skills....It would be like a hearing person having a flair for spoken French or Spanish.....it doesn't give them an advantage over those who don't....it just gives them an ADDITIONAL SKILL!

 

[kokonut]

We're NOT saying that it's impossible to develop good spoken language skills if you're dhh.....we're saying that it's overall very rare for a childhood dhh person to acheive "like hearing" speech........Everyone is different yes.....but even many HOH folks still have deaf accents and deaf vocal mannerisms....
Some kids can develop oral abilty...........So what? I have seen kids with good oral skills.....they don't have a HUGE advantage over those who don't....They STILL face almost all the same discrimination, and negative social attitudes as do those with not so good speech....hell,I have EXCELLENT speech. I have even been told I don't talk like a deaf person!?!?!? .....heck those with good oral skills often get accused of faking it or pretending to be dhh..... It just means they have a flair for oral skills....It would be like a hearing person having a flair for spoken French or Spanish.....it doesn't give them an advantage over those who don't....it just gives them an ADDITIONAL SKILL!

And there are many d/hh folks whose speech are like other hearing folks' speech. I wouldn't put it in the "very rare" category at all with the numerous people I have met and seen elsewhere over the years and today. But why bother trying to compare a person's speech to that of a hearing person? What is the point of that? Why rate a person's speech as "nearly indistinguishable" to that of a hearing person or that a person's speech is the same as a hearing person? What's really important is that a person's speech is an intelligible one.

 

[shel90]

And there are many d/hh folks whose speech are like other hearing folks' speech. I wouldn't put it in the "very rare" category at all with the numerous people I have met and seen elsewhere over the years and today. But why bother trying to compare a person's speech to that of a hearing person? What is the point of that? Why rate a person's speech as "nearly indistinguishable" to that of a hearing person or that a person's speech is the same as a hearing person? What's really important is that a person's speech is an intelligible one.

Well, it would have helped me to understand why people looked at me like I was a freak growing up when they met me for the first time. I was told constantly that my speech was very good by my teachers, family and etc and that I must be so special. Well, when I tried talking to strangers, I get funny faces made at me. As a kid, that was very confusing. It made me not want to use my voice with anyone else in the later years. Working so hard with my speech skills and making sacrifices all those years only to end up not being able to fit in the hearing world no matter how hard I tried was a waste of time.