Is it ok to force deafies learn Oral while cant force hearing ppl learn ASL

Rose Immortal said:
And in that case there's the choice to go somewhere else. I'm not saying what policies I do and don't disagree with, but simply that the admin has the right to decide and it's the choice of a person posting to either deal with the rules or leave. I've left forums both for being too restrictive AND for being too open, but I recognized that it was my own value judgment and I had no right to tell the admin what to do, nor to insult or harass the posters who liked things the way they were. I have my ideas about how I like things, but I don't want to push them on anybody. If I do hit my limits, I just leave quietly.
Agreed. I guess the point I was trying to make is that this is more like being on someones place of business and not necessarly their home. In a place of business the owner reserves the right to decide what is and what is not appropriate. And yes, if the members (or customers) don't like it, they have the choice to go elsewhere.
 
The concept of Deaf Community...

I find this is odd, I have been noticing we do have a huge problem with audism people and oral method rules that caused the problem for Deaf community you dont have any respect for Deaf chlidren s generation true identity and American Sign Language that we Deaf community fought so hard since Alexander G.Bell took over native sign language as evolved into American Sign Language that Laurent Clerc from France who was a First Deaf teacher that taught Native sign language and Signed English in a big time. He learned English langauge from Thomas Gallaudet who appointed him to be the first Deaf teacher in American School for the Deaf.
Now See they worked together to make the difference that is proven. I would love to tell the stories but you know the rest of it. Where are these Deaf teachers nowadays?? Not many!! Too much sticky political issues from this society.

Now it s proven that there is a very serious problem that still goes on and on and on since they only look at one side of orally speaking and spoken language that relates to SEE or CUED SPEECH or others that is the artificial languages as always. Why destroy our ASL from the start that works for us all. That is not necessary for Hearing people took over our Deaf Education that they have no knowledge of our Deafness/Deaf culture/ASL itself. They kept pushing us to have those devices so Can you see most of Deaf people dont hear everything? Can you see many Deaf children are lost without ASL? Can you see many Deaf people 's battle because of their perceptive of negative term Deaf.

"Deaf is no good" "ASL is no good" "Deaf cant cant cant" "Deaf must do what people want them to do in their hearing ways" So what is that all about? Dont you realize it works for Deaf children to gain their intellectual skills and social skills from the beginning of life? Give them a chance and be ourselves as a Deaf people.. Why cant we being ourselves from the start? it s always something that goes for hearing people before us Deaf people s need while it s our true language and Deaf languages from all over Deaf community in this Diversity World. We are not allowed to be deaf or show our hands, It is a real language. That works so well for us thats why we welcome hearing people to sign also with our gift of appreciation we are welcoming them with open arms and it is the opposite with the hearing community..we are only welcomed if we Speak or Hear. That, I feel, is very degrading and thoughtless. Why does it have to be that way...why cant this problem be solved? We are not accepted as we are to this day with both sides...why? I like both deaf and hearing, whom I always support to enter into the deaf community...deaf audist and hearing audists are fighting with us...why? they act like deaf people are inferior. Are you ashamed of yourself? Well I am NOT.

It has not solved any problems. Now you can see why many of us deafies couldnt hear everything with both devices. Why does it have to force/ conform children to be a Hearing person that has not solved the problem.

Dont you get it! Deaf community did give our gifted appreciation to share our true languages that nowadays hearing people and the innocent Deaf people are taking it and want to communicate with us all along that is two way of street after all I m seeing and showing the evidence of audism attitudes behaviors toward me, deafies, and Deaf (deaf/hearing) Leaders that has not being stopped. So I just dont understand this anymore. If they cannot handle themselves by being deaf then why do they have to be here in Deaf community if they dont like it. We did not hold them back after all. Is that something??

Now I am really happy to see more and more people learn ASL and wants to interact with the Deaf people of Deaf Community. That's a UNITY in a Diverse World. I know it s very hard on you after all I pointed that out that is not happy stories all the time. I dont feel guilty to tell the whole truth because I want ATTITUDE to change for the better if you let it happens. New generation people are seeing the truth and dont want to be the one of those Austim people that I am looking forward to it. That's all to it!

Audism people keep on destroying our Deaf children and people of Deaf community that we are still battling our equal rights. Everything turns out very destructive power over a very stupid reason to force us that you want us to do for your sakes not for our sakes. ADA doesnt apply for the Deaf people in many ways. Thats why I pointed that out that we Deaf people 's equal rights to have American Sign Language.

Thats the truth of our Deafness that will never be solved. That's it! It s too much complication or having so much conflict interest from hearing person's control and power that is very negative audism people. It needs to be stopped using their excuses/lies about us and our deafness to make $$$$$ that belongs to Deaf community. That's all to it.

Also, I m disappointed that all those terms of Deaf turned out the term of Hearing with any accessories/ necessities that turns me off. Hearing is not Deaf but we are the Deaf people of the Deaf community as always. Thats what I am seeing that they take take take and become rich that is not right to pretend they did for us, Deaf people. Thats belong to Deaf community that Deaf Inventors did in the past that make a big difference for today's that share with Hearing/Latened Deaf people.

I am so thankful to have Deaf community because we Deaf people want to be ourselves being deaf and use their hands to communicate anytime. It is still not acceptable of us being deaf that seems forever. It needs to be stop abuse that is old old news hasnt disappear yet. We want to prove that we can do it without depending on devices that will change the whole picture between Hearing and Deaf like Martha Vineyard. I believe that we are capable to speak as much as we can, in our choices, too

I think it s possible and will making the big difference. My point is that it s not necessary to change person for not who he/she is or have an Attitude toward Deaf people 's abilities.

If oralism were never exists, then it wont be a problem as I strongly believe because people are doing it for the money on purpose. Some people with a very positive attitude are educated for a good reason to help others to understand about us.

I thought we want to work together but we are not working for you and doing it for you. We Deaf people wants to work (with) you however we refused to work (for) you.

Thats what it s all about of having the Diverse World that all kinds of people can live in altogether. Deaf people are people, no matter what!


Think hard and Think twice. I want you to see what 's wrong with this picture nowadays.


Thank you! ;) :cheers:
Sweetmind

PS: I copied and edited it in here from my topic of Evidence of being deaf with HA.
 
Sweetmind said:
..................
It has not solved any problems. Now you can see why many of us deafies couldnt hear everything with both devices. Why does it have to force/ conform children to be a Hearing person that has not solved the problem.
...............
How many of you deafies have tried both devices.... I assume HA and CI.
Please Sweetmind... How many??

Sweetmind said:
..................
PS: I copied and edited it in here from my topic of Evidence of being deaf with HA.
Thank goodness.... I thought I had another Deja-Vu!!
 
Fragmenter said:
Where's the BAN smiley?

I can spout off insults to Sweetmind but I don't because I respect and follow the AD member rules. I don't know how she's still a member here when she insults oralism and the hearing people.

Roadrunner, we support you.
Then why have you spouted off insults to me?

But that is :topic: here...

I just want to stay out of the flame war.

I do agree with Sweetmind and Deaf Images here, but I am staying out of the flaming.

How many times do I have to tell you guys that Sweetmind isn't against hearing people?! She doesn't hate us.

Sweetmind insults hearing people? Gee, I didn't know that, and I read all her posts.... Why don't I feel insulted by her?
 
gnulinuxman said:
Then why have you spouted off insults to me?

They were personal insults :deal: Roadrunner and I have already discussed about that and I will refrain from hurting your fweelings from now on :tears:
 
I have to say Casperman is not a ASL extremist because he knows the truth and of being openmind by him and his Deaf family / relatives. I respect him and his families all the way.

Thanks! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
I have to say Casperman is not a ASL extremist because he knows the truth and openminded by him and his Deaf family / relatives. I respect him all the way.

That's good of him. However, extremes at either end isn't good for society. As a hearing person, I have to say I totally disagree with you, Sweetmind. Not only are you wrong, but you're offensive as well. Not only to me, but I'm sure to others. I've already stated this elsewhere, but I would absolutely do my very best to make a deaf person feel comfortable around me. This includes learning ASL if I have to. However, I also feel it's only fair that a deaf person do what's necessary to make *me* feel comfortable around them as well. It's a two-way street. How can we ever forge a common ground if we're always at extremes? It'll never work.
 
I once called ASL extremists or ASL PROS by audism people / Deaf activist /NESMUTH if you mind. I am far from it since I m actually deaf oralist for years and years..

NOW I m called myself Deaf and use my hands that you couldnt handle it. I quit wearing HA because hearing community doesnt accept me completely after all I worked so hard to learn how to speak however, I COULDNT HEAR everything if you mind.

Oceanbreeze, you are hearing and dont get it. I know what I am talking about since I was dealing with that stages from HOH to Deaf. Thanks!


THANK YOU!

Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
I once called ASL extremists or ASL PROS by audism people / Deaf activist /NESMUTH if you mind. I am far from it since I m actually deaf oralist for years and years..

NOW I m called myself Deaf and use my hands that you couldnt handle it. I quit wearing HA because hearing community doesnt accept me completely after all I worked so hard to learn how to speak however, I COULDNT HEAR everything if you mind.

Oceanbreeze, you are hearing and dont get it. I know what I am talking about since I was dealing with that stages from HOH to Deaf. Thanks!


THANK YOU!

Sweetmind
See guys? She's not against oralism! She's just saying it's so much harder than signing.
 
See guys? She's not against oralism! She's just saying it's so much harder than signing.

That would be fine except she does that by calling anyone who dare to suppose that oralism can be a good thing - an AUDIST!!!!
where is the logic ???

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
That would be fine except she does that by calling anyone who dare to suppose that oralism can be a good thing - an AUDIST!!!!
where is the logic ???

Fuzzy

That and automatically casting hearing people as evil or stupid. That gets old fast.
 
Casperman said:
That topic really impaceted me few years ago when my older son was born as yall know im from deaf family and my ex wife from a hearing family.. the other side wanted my boys to learn oral and i told them... if they wanted our boys to learn ORAL why cant her family learn ASL? bec i seen few ppl outta of her family members not use asl just oral and do they think its fair comparing to my moms hearing family --99 percent of her immatide family knows asl and use total commuication... we did had disagreements on that... now im asking yall
Do ya think its fair if my boys learn oral and other side learn asl same time or NOT? just wanted yalls opinion...

Ok I know I am new and not very Big around here so All i ask is that yall just listen to what i have to say. I belive that anyone asking people to learn there way must learn the other way. I think all hearing people should have to take an ASL class. I think that all hearing people should have to experience deafness for a period of time. And i know that it would never be the same as what you all go through but just a hint of it. My girlfriend Is HH and has learned to talk very well. Her entire family has learned some ASL and SE. I am the kind of person who belives if you are around any kind of culture you should try and experience it. All i have to say is if you want anyone to learn ASL and you have the ability to talk try. As well as if you are hearing and you want a deaf person to learn ORAL you need to learn ASL. Thank you for you time and post what you think about what i said.
 
To me it seems like an even exchange would be fair--each learns something from the other. I'd recommend that for ANY situation where there is a language difference, not just for the case of ASL. An uneven exchange ends up hurting everyone involved. But that's just me.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
That would be fine except she does that by calling anyone who dare to suppose that oralism can be a good thing - an AUDIST!!!!
where is the logic ???

Fuzzy
Oralism isn't perfect either. It will not allow all deaf people to talk to all hearing people who speak that language. Lipreading is hard and doesn't always word and CI's aren't perfect. Signing is readily understood by users of the sign language involved. Depending on residual hearing can be a bad idea too because of how hearing aids work--the amplified sound can cause noise-induced hearing loss because people who have profound deafness need strong amplification, and then they can't understand oral speech without being able to hear after their hearing is gone, and if they don't know how to sign, reading and writing may be the only option unless they know to lipread well enough.
 
gnulinuxman said:
Depending on residual hearing can be a bad idea too because of how hearing aids work--the amplified sound can cause noise-induced hearing loss because people who have profound deafness need strong amplification

Don't make stuff up. A properly-fit hearing aid should not cause noise-induced hearing loss. Now, if you don't get it adjusted properly, or if you engage in risky behavior (i.e., exposing yourself to levels of noise that would damage *anyone's* hearing, HOH or not) then that's a different story.

My hearing is worse than it was when I first started wearing hearing aids; but that's due to the progression of my underlying condition, not the hearing aids. In fact, my hearing aids may have protected my hearing at times, through compressing the signal, through shutting off when they detected bursts of noise, and by acting as earplugs when I have them off.
 
ismi said:
Don't make stuff up. A properly-fit hearing aid should not cause noise-induced hearing loss. Now, if you don't get it adjusted properly, or if you engage in risky behavior (i.e., exposing yourself to levels of noise that would damage *anyone's* hearing, HOH or not) then that's a different story.

My hearing is worse than it was when I first started wearing hearing aids; but that's due to the progression of my underlying condition, not the hearing aids. In fact, my hearing aids may have protected my hearing at times, through compressing the signal, through shutting off when they detected bursts of noise, and by acting as earplugs when I have them off.

Agree with you there. Like you, my underlying condition is why I finally had to go the CI route. Now, I will never have to worry about that again.

I see too much Chicken Little harping around here in order to push an agenda. This is getting so old.
 
Casperman said:
That topic really impaceted me few years ago when my older son was born as yall know im from deaf family and my ex wife from a hearing family.. the other side wanted my boys to learn oral and i told them... if they wanted our boys to learn ORAL why cant her family learn ASL? bec i seen few ppl outta of her family members not use asl just oral and do they think its fair comparing to my moms hearing family --99 percent of her immatide family knows asl and use total commuication... we did had disagreements on that... now im asking yall
Do ya think its fair if my boys learn oral and other side learn asl same time or NOT? just wanted yalls opinion...


I'm with you on this very subject, If the family demands the boys to speak oral, then the same family should learn ASL, I don't see why the family wouldn't take the time to learn ASL, It's fun and it would bond the boys closer to the family. ;)
 
Cheri said:
I'm with you on this very subject, If the family demands the boys to speak oral, then the same family should learn ASL, I don't see why the family wouldn't take the time to learn ASL, It's fun and it would bond the boys closer to the family. ;)
Most common excuses for not learning to sign:
  • "It's too hard!"
  • "It's just a silly little game nobody wants to play!"
  • "Only babies use picture things like this to talk! Adults don't do that! Signing is so babyish..."
  • "Why should I have to do this?! Nobody else has to!"
:ugh:
 
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