Teresh said:
OK, so you're out to deny the legitimacy of your fellow Christians on the grounds that they don't practice the same way you do. Right. That makes a lot of sense.
I'm not even talking about "practice". I'm talking about whether or not someone even is a Christian. They aren't my "fellow Christians" unless they have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Then, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
It's not my definition. It's in the Bible:
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee,
Ye must be born again.
I Peter 1
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Many Christians are Gentiles. There are also many Christians that are Jews. Most Jewish Christians are not aware of their being Jews, however, being descended from forced converts in the medieval times. You, Reba, could, in principle, be a Jew and not even be aware of it.
Each person is born either a Jew or a non-Jew. The Bible refers to non-Jews as "Gentiles." Therefore, the pool of potential Christians is either Jew or Gentile (non-Jew). No one is physically born a Christian from the womb.
When a person (Jew or Gentile) is spiritually and mentally mature enough to understand sin and repentance,
THEN that person becomes a Christian,
IF he/she accepts the salvation offered by Jesus.
All born-again Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of whatever race, nationality, previous religious affiliation, birth place, parents' religion, etc.
If I have any Jewish ancestors, then Hallelujah! That would be neat. :P But it has nothing to do with my own personal relationship with God.
A Gentile does not have to be Christian anymore than a Jew needs to practice Judaism. The terms applies to people who would be considered members of the Tribe or people who are not considered members of the Tribe.
The three "Tribes" then are Jew, Christian, and Gentile (non-Christian, non-Jew).
To be saved from eternal burning suffering and loneliness in Hell.
No, it's a negative view to believe that we are born evil.
Denying the existence of sin nature won't disappear it. Sticking your head in the sand won't make the sins go away.
The
positive, good news is, that God has provided a way to overcome that nature.
Denial that we sin isn't a virtue and repentance is important, but it is nonetheless also true that it's silly to think that a person who is born is born sinful and that he or she does not start with a clean slate.
Anyone who has raised a baby knows that, sweet as they are, they are born with the nature of selfishness, self-centeredness, and other "negative" traits that don't need to be taught.
Please note that I said the sin "nature" (in-born tendancy); I
didn't say that babies and toddlers are conciously, actively committing sins.
Yes, but that wasn't for another 25 years or so. The Protestants have had their fair share of times persecuting people, the Holocaust in particular. Even now, the Protestants of the KKK advocate racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, etc. "Born-again Christian" is a label that you claim for yourself to differentiate yourselves from the wicked among you, but that isn't a solution in itself.
Please don't confuse the term "Protestant" with "born-again Christian". Some Protestant people are born-again Christians, and some born-again Christians are members of Protestant churches, but not all Protestants are born again, and most born-again Christians are not members of mainline Protestant denominations.
You claim to be a better group of people...
I've never claimed that.
All born-again Christians (including me) are sinners, not worthy of salvation, but saved from condemnation thru the
grace of God.
but you don't take action against the wicked among you...
Actually, we do, and then we also get condemned by non-Christians for that action. We can't win!
My church practices church discipline against members who continue to sin without repentence. Uh, oh, that is
judgmental!
So what do you want? When churches discipline their members for un-Christian behavior, they are called judgmental, and people bring suit against them.
When preachers preach strong against sin, then they are criticized as "legalistic" and judgmental.
But you also expect us to "take action against the wicked among you".
Which is it?
Your personal persecution of gay people (in the form of voting against gay civil rights) is an example of this.
I vote in every election, even primaries and run-offs, and there has never been anything on the ballot "against gay civil rights". Don't make stuff up.
You claim to be a better, "born-again" person...
For the umpteenth time, I have never claimed to be a "better" person than anyone else. I'm a
SINNER saved by grace. OK?
...and yet by your actions it is apparent that you simply focus your persecution on a different group of people. You're no better than the "not born-again" Christians, though I won't deny that you would like to think that you are. But they'd say the same about you, that you've lost the faith, not understanding the meaning.
You've created a special, superior status for yourself within the Christian community in a vain attempt to differentiate yourself from those in your community that have different opinions. All that distinction indicates is that you seriously want attention and appreciation for your devotion. You're devoted out of dishonesty and out of vanity rather than out of sincere desire to connect with the Almighty.
Are we getting into another "sticks-and-stones" personal round? If so, I decline to join in.
Absolutely not. I don't assume someone is Christian, I acknowledge the fact that, demographically speaking, the vast majority of the European population at the time was Christian.
Do you mean they were born-again Christians, or do you mean they were members of the Catholic Church?
... The Senate still has a strong Christian majority in any case.
Christian or Gentile? Not all non-Jews are Christians.
That could be said about some Christians too. I would say that in some parts of the US, there is widespread wrong teaching on Christianity that generates people like the KKK who believe only in hate. Again, the fact that some people are taught incorrectly, only given half of the story, and not thoroughly knowledgable about their religion is not a basis for us to condemn the entire religion.
OK, so wouldn't that statement also apply for Muslims? If a person cannot follow the Qur'an (and, by virtue of the beliefs, also the Christian and Hebrew Scriptures) he or she is NOT a Muslim and is just hijacking the label for personal gain. If you're willing to say that a Christian who does not follow Jewish and Christian teachings is not a Christian, that goes for Muslims too.
The majority of born-again Christians follow the doctrines of Jesus Christ. The few weird sects and nutty individuals who claim the name of Christian are strongly condemned, publicly and from the pulpits of fundamental Bible churches. The Christian community looks upon them as crazies, criminals, and false teachers. We speak out against them, and remove them from our membership.
Can we say the same about Islamic terrorists? Do the majority of their religious leaders speak strongly and publically from their pulpits against terrorist groups and actions? Do the people in Muslim communities throughout the world refuse to support those groups? Do they turn them in? Do they kick them out of their mosques? Do they vote them out of office? Do their schools teach the children that terrorists are bad?
Hmmmm....
