IEP help

doubletrouble said:
alley cat:
In my son's case, no it is still part of his IEP..
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My daughter too. She has speech goals every year. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help her get the things she needs.
 
AlleyCat said:
faire_jour, you sound like a GREAT mom! :)

I wonder about the IEPs, though .. maybe times have changed. I was looking not too long ago through some of the old IEPs that my IEP teacher wrote up (in my case, this is about 30 years ago already if we are talking about elementary school age) and in there, improving speech skills was included. Has that been excluded now?
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If the school has a speech therapist that is on staff, speech therapy can still be written into an IEP, most usually in a mainstream environment. This is still done because in this environment, access to information requires that the child not just understand speech, but be able to communicate questions and ideas so that the other students and teachers will understand. However, Miss Kat is in a bi-bi-program.
 
jillio said:
If the school has a speech therapist that is on staff, speech therapy can still be written into an IEP, most usually in a mainstream environment. This is still done because in this environment, access to information requires that the child not just understand speech, but be able to communicate questions and ideas so that the other students and teachers will understand. However, Miss Kat is in a bi-bi-program.
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Every child in our program is offered speech/listening therapy. They also have a program called "Oracy" to work on the same sort of skills (including speechreading and phonic awareness)
 
Hi! Hang in there--you will get through this decision! :) My daughter is almost in high school, but I remember the tough educational decisions we had to make at this early stage, too. One of the most frustrating things is when you cannot find the resources that you feel that your child needs. I am going through the same thing even at this stage. For us, it means moving to a new place--but I know that is not an option for many people. In our current area, there was only TC--oral ed was not an option(during my daughter's elementary years). She was very oral(had attended an oral preschool) and the decision was made to let her mainstream and continue AV therapy. It worked out okay until she hit adolescence--then the social issues came into play.

Since your options are also limited, it will be a tough decision. It just isn't fair that parents of deaf children don't have ALL options available to choose from when making these decisions! Try to picture your daughter in each situation: the bi-bi school does not seem to be meeting her oral language needs and may not improve much in the future, the mainstream choice may be very tough if she will be one of the only children who do not speak in school(can be done though), and the oral program MAY have issues with ASL. However, if this oral program is through a public school, I would think that you would have every right to get her in that program WITH an ASL interpreter. You could probably do the same thing in a mainstream situation, but think of the social issues--if there are other deaf children in the oral program, that is definitely a plus. I only WISH that my daughter had that option in her public elementary school! The one thing she missed out on that REALLY seems to matter to her: knowing other deaf children who are like her.

OK--so picture each situation: if she continues in the bi-bi school she will have deaf friends but her oral language will not be encouraged(according to what you have said)--and it seems that you are no longer happy there(once again, just going on what you have said)--are there other kids with CIs there?--if so, then have you talked to the other parents about the speech issue at the school? One important thing if she stayed there--wouldn't she really really want to have friends who are "like her"(deaf with CIs)? If there are, then that is good--hopefully you and the other parents could "force" the school to meet the needs of your kids with CIs. If your daughter is the only child with CIs, she may end up feeling "all alone." The same goes for the mainstream option--she could do that and have an ASL interpreter, but there won't be a lot of AV therapy going on--if she felt that she "fit in" with the hearing kids it could work, but if she feels "all alone" then it will be tough--not impossible, but tough. With the oral ed option--hopefully one in which you COULD absolutely get her an ASL interpreter--she would probably have deaf friends who wear hearing aids and CIs. At this age, there will be a wide range of "oral ability" among the class--some of the kids may speak wonderfully and some may have very little oral language--for the most part, they will probably all feel "the same" because they are all deaf and have "things on their ears"(something most hearing kids do not have). It would be SO wonderful if your daughter could make a friend "like her" at this age!! A little girl who is fluent in ASL, has CIs, and is learning to speak--if that is at all a possibility, I would go for it. If there was some way to go back for my daughter, I would try to find her a friend "just like her" from kindergarten on--and hopefully they could go all through elementary school together and have a lot in common through the years. I know it isn't always possible--sometimes there just aren't any other deaf kids the same age as your child--but if there is, I would jump at the chance to make that connection.

So, I guess the main thing is: where would your daughter be the happiest and make the most progress? She definitely needs the ASL right now--don't let them take that away from her wherever she goes. And, it sounds as if she would do great with AVT--and hopefully she can continue that plus get a lot of oral language instruction and exposure at school. And the social issue is SO SO important: if you could find even one little girl her age going through the same thing, that would be so great for her. So, if you can find all of that at the bi-bi school, that is great. If you can find it at the oral program, that is great, too. You may be able to get it in the mainstream, but it is harder to find deaf kids in that situation. Good luck in whatever you do! I am sure she will be happy in the right situation. Good luck!
 
Deborah said:
So, I guess the main thing is: where would your daughter be the happiest and make the most progress? She definitely needs the ASL right now--don't let them take that away from her wherever she goes. And, it sounds as if she would do great with AVT--and hopefully she can continue that plus get a lot of oral language instruction and exposure at school. And the social issue is SO SO important: if you could find even one little girl her age going through the same thing, that would be so great for her. So, if you can find all of that at the bi-bi school, that is great. If you can find it at the oral program, that is great, too. You may be able to get it in the mainstream, but it is harder to find deaf kids in that situation. Good luck in whatever you do! I am sure she will be happy in the right situation. Good luck!
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There are other CI and hearing aid users in the class but none of them are oral language users. There are a few in the school, but very few. I love the social and (for early elementary) the academics of her school, but we need more and I don't think we have the power to get the services she would need. We always knew we would eventually leave the school (they don't even have a high school program, not enough kids) but we didn't realize it would be so soon. Miss Kat just loves these kids so much, if we leave the school, we will HAVE TO stay in contact with her friends. Ugh, this hurts already....
 
Any possibilty for a "split placement?" I honestly do think that ambigious kids need a really good foundation (at least til third grade) of a split placement instead of automaticly assuming that this or that placement is the best.
Have you networked with the oral sucesses? Are there any Deaf mainstream programs in your area?
 
deafdyke said:
Any possibilty for a "split placement?" I honestly do think that ambigious kids need a really good foundation (at least til third grade) of a split placement instead of automaticly assuming that this or that placement is the best.
Have you networked with the oral sucesses? Are there any Deaf mainstream programs in your area?
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I know a few oral kids, but general they are mainstreamed and they are tough to contact. We have an oral program, but after they are decided to be mainstreamed they are just put in the local district.
 
faire_jour, why don't you try the oral program part of the day or bring your daughter to get a feel of the classroom? Maybe she won't be as nervous as you are as a parent, which is understandable. I think some speech exposure might help encourage Miss Kat to verbalize more. You could try part of the day to help try out the program or ease the transition depending on how Miss Kat does.

I think you've got a lot of great advices here. Whatever you choose to do, I wish Miss Kat much success.
 
faire_joure, I thought you mentioned that there were some kids at Miss Kat's current school who were orally skilled?
I second ClearSky's suggestion....maybe place her in the oral program part time and then the rest of the time at her current school?
 
deafdyke said:
faire_joure, I thought you mentioned that there were some kids at Miss Kat's current school who were orally skilled?
I second ClearSky's suggestion....maybe place her in the oral program part time and then the rest of the time at her current school?
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I would say, in the entire program (between 80-100 kids) there are 20 who can use or want (or parents want) spoken language. And the majority of them are 2nd grade and under. There are maybe half a dozen that have better oral skills than Miss Kat.
 
Faire_jour.........well network with the parents of THOSE kids! See what resources etc they discovered to help their kids talk.
 
When is the meeting? What have you decided? Remember she has only had her CI for a month and not sure in which direction she will lean. Remember if you don't agree with the IEP you must make a note of that on the IEP. If you don't sign it, it goes into effect even without your signature.
 
faire_jour said:
Miss Kat just loves these kids so much, if we leave the school, we will HAVE TO stay in contact with her friends. Ugh, this hurts already....
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Please don't move her from this school as it's sounds like she's getting what is MOST IMPORTANT. Age apropriate accademic skills and good social skills. She seems to be doing really well. If you want her to develop more oral skills that can be suplimented outside school. It sounds like you are doing that already.

No placement will ever be perfect for your daughter. I don't think I spoke that much either as a young kid and I was only mildy deaf. I'm told at one stage I wasn't speaking AT ALL but I can't remember that. Now I speak so well some people find it hard to believe I'm deaf.

Maybe try cued speach?
 
faire_jour said:
I want her to succeed with the implant, but I don't want it to cost her happiness. I have no idea how to balance the two needs she has.
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The two are not mutually exclusive. From what you have described of Miss Kat's present school, it is clear that her aural needs will never be met and a therapist who actually slaps kids' hands really tells you all you need to know.

Go visit both the oral program and the mainstream school, talk to the administrators, you may find that it is a more appropriate setting than what she is in now.

I am not discounting the social aspect at all but it is extremely unlikely that the kids she is friendly with at age 5 will still be her friends at age 15, if the other schools will meet her needs and the academics are fine, she will make new friends at a new school.

Good luck.
Rick
 
Age apropriate accademic skills and good social skills. She seems to be doing really well. If you want her to develop more oral skills that can be suplimented outside school. It sounds like you are doing that already.

No placement will ever be perfect for your daughter
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Ditto. I think a good placement right now would be the same placement PLUS trying to get supplemental speech/listening therapy or looking into a "split placement. You know....it is very possible that it's either too soon to tell how well she is going to develop speech (it's only been a month) or she may have a secondary condition that is somehow impairing her abilty to develop spoken language. You did say she started out hoh right? Most hoh kids do develop decent spoken language.

Sorry, rick but I disagree with you.
I am not discounting the social aspect at all but it is extremely unlikely that the kids she is friendly with at age 5 will still be her friends at age 15, if the other schools will meet her needs and the academics are fine, she will make new friends at a new school.
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Deaf ed kids tend to have pretty strong social bonds. Also, there's no guantee that she'll be able to make friends in a mainstream/oral program. I really do think that the key to educational and social sucess for kids with more "classic" disablities is going with a split placement, until the student is old enough to give feedback about what placement is best for them.
Too often, parents assume that mainstreaming and oral classes are "better" then deaf ed.
 
My great aunts told me years ago that when I was five or seven, they could barely understand my speech. They told me that they could understand me a lot better at age 20. Most strangers could understand me by then even though my speech wasn't perfect. I didn't start to really sound hearing though I came close till after I got implanted. I had speech theraphy 3 times a week then once a week then monthly. I've not had any speech theraphy since I was 15.

Miss Kat has been implanted for a month now? I think she just needs time if she has any ability to speak. What if she never learns to speak well? What then? You will need to find alternative strageties to help her with the hearing world. I know some people with CIs who don't speak well but they think the CI helps them. Others learned to speak with the CI but thought it was a failure because their parents weren't happy with the results because it didn't improve their hearing to the point where they didn't need sign. I met one such guy at World of Warcraft.

While I think it's a good thing to have good speech, I'm also a realist. Not everyone will learn to speak. If I were to have a deaf child, You can bet that I'd enroll the child in a bi-bi program and I'd be more concerned about the child's progress in education than with speech.
 
deafskeptic said:
My great aunts told me years ago that when I was five or seven, they could barely understand my speech. They told me that they could understand me a lot better at age 20. Most strangers could understand me by then even though my speech wasn't perfect. I didn't start to really sound hearing though I came close till after I got implanted. I had speech theraphy 3 times a week then once a week then monthly. I've not had any speech theraphy since I was 15.

Miss Kat has been implanted for a month now? I think she just needs time if she has any ability to speak. What if she never learns to speak well? What then? You will need to find alternative strageties to help her with the hearing world. I know some people with CIs who don't speak well but they think the CI helps them. Others learned to speak with the CI but thought it was a failure because their parents weren't happy with the results because it didn't improve their hearing to the point where they didn't need sign. I met one such guy at World of Warcraft.

While I think it's a good thing to have good speech, I'm also a realist. Not everyone will learn to speak. If I were to have a deaf child, You can bet that I'd enroll the child in a bi-bi program and I'd be more concerned about the child's progress in education than with speech.
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Well said, deafskeptic!
 
There are many pros and cons and in the end, there are no absolutes as it always boils down to the needs and best interests of the individual child. However, there is nothing to lose by going and looking at alternative placements at this point in time.

A good point was made about basing the future needs on just one month of post-ci progress but on the other hand while there are no guarantees about the future, it is pretty much a given that very, very few children will develop their oral language skills to thier fullest potential in a program that does not even care to utilize spoken language in its instruction and employs a therapist who the parent has already determined to be lacking the necessary skills in that area.

faire jour, I would include oral speech and language therapy in her IEP to be given by someone who has experience working with ci kids and also that, with respect to your child that she receive "voice on" instructions in the classroom.
 
deafskeptic said:
My great aunts told me years ago that when I was five or seven, they could barely understand my speech. They told me that they could understand me a lot better at age 20. Most strangers could understand me by then even though my speech wasn't perfect. I didn't start to really sound hearing though I came close till after I got implanted. I had speech theraphy 3 times a week then once a week then monthly. I've not had any speech theraphy since I was 15.

Miss Kat has been implanted for a month now? I think she just needs time if she has any ability to speak. What if she never learns to speak well? What then? You will need to find alternative strageties to help her with the hearing world. I know some people with CIs who don't speak well but they think the CI helps them. Others learned to speak with the CI but thought it was a failure because their parents weren't happy with the results because it didn't improve their hearing to the point where they didn't need sign. I met one such guy at World of Warcraft.

While I think it's a good thing to have good speech, I'm also a realist. Not everyone will learn to speak. If I were to have a deaf child, You can bet that I'd enroll the child in a bi-bi program and I'd be more concerned about the child's progress in education than with speech.
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It is only one month post activation, but if she isn't given the proper learning enviroment and instruction, she will not make progress. She is already, in that one month, gained, at least a dozen receptive words, and is starting to ask for the spoken words for the signs she uses.
She already has "alternative strageties" to communicate with hearing people, she's been doing it for 5 years.
As for education, she won't be losing it. I'm not pulling her out of school to put her in 24 hour a day speech, I'm merely considering other educational placements.
 
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