IEP help

[Lissa]

I was not talking until I had my aids for over 2 years, and not until I Started school, signs were able to help me communicate until i develop the skills of talking. now i like doing both

 

[shel90]

My great aunts told me years ago that when I was five or seven, they could barely understand my speech. They told me that they could understand me a lot better at age 20. Most strangers could understand me by then even though my speech wasn't perfect. I didn't start to really sound hearing though I came close till after I got implanted. I had speech theraphy 3 times a week then once a week then monthly. I've not had any speech theraphy since I was 15.

Miss Kat has been implanted for a month now? I think she just needs time if she has any ability to speak. What if she never learns to speak well? What then? You will need to find alternative strageties to help her with the hearing world. I know some people with CIs who don't speak well but they think the CI helps them. Others learned to speak with the CI but thought it was a failure because their parents weren't happy with the results because it didn't improve their hearing to the point where they didn't need sign. I met one such guy at World of Warcraft.

While I think it's a good thing to have good speech, I'm also a realist. Not everyone will learn to speak. If I were to have a deaf child, You can bet that I'd enroll the child in a bi-bi program and I'd be more concerned about the child's progress in education than with speech.

U just reinforced my point I made earlier in this thread. As usual, I couldn't agree with u more.

 

[shel90]

Deafteen..u are right..it will probably take years.

 

[shel90]

Ditto. I think a good placement right now would be the same placement PLUS trying to get supplemental speech/listening therapy or looking into a "split placement. You know....it is very possible that it's either too soon to tell how well she is going to develop speech (it's only been a month) or she may have a secondary condition that is somehow impairing her abilty to develop spoken language. You did say she started out hoh right? Most hoh kids do develop decent spoken language.

Sorry, rick but I disagree with you.

Deaf ed kids tend to have pretty strong social bonds. Also, there's no guantee that she'll be able to make friends in a mainstream/oral program. I really do think that the key to educational and social sucess for kids with more "classic" disablities is going with a split placement, until the student is old enough to give feedback about what placement is best for them.
Too often, parents assume that mainstreaming and oral classes are "better" then deaf ed.

I agree wiith u that Rick most likely to be incorrect abou the social aspects. What I see is that deaf children tend to form tight and special bonds that usually last for a lifetime because of the connection they feel with others in an unforgiving hearing world. Many of the new posters who come in here expressing feeling lost in the hearing world despite getting CIs or having good oral skills is just one perfect example among many others.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

My great aunts told me years ago that when I was five or seven, they could barely understand my speech. They told me that they could understand me a lot better at age 20. Most strangers could understand me by then even though my speech wasn't perfect. I didn't start to really sound hearing though I came close till after I got implanted. I had speech theraphy 3 times a week then once a week then monthly. I've not had any speech theraphy since I was 15.

Miss Kat has been implanted for a month now? I think she just needs time if she has any ability to speak. What if she never learns to speak well? What then? You will need to find alternative strageties to help her with the hearing world. I know some people with CIs who don't speak well but they think the CI helps them. Others learned to speak with the CI but thought it was a failure because their parents weren't happy with the results because it didn't improve their hearing to the point where they didn't need sign. I met one such guy at World of Warcraft.

While I think it's a good thing to have good speech, I'm also a realist. Not everyone will learn to speak. If I were to have a deaf child, You can bet that I'd enroll the child in a bi-bi program and I'd be more concerned about the child's progress in education than with speech.

I think parental atitude and expectations can make or break a kid's success.

 

[jillio]

I agree wiith u that Rick most likely to be incorrect abou the social aspects. What I see is that deaf children tend to form tight and special bonds that usually last for a lifetime because of the connection they feel with others in an unforgiving hearing world. Many of the new posters who come in here expressing feeling lost in the hearing world despite getting CIs or having good oral skills is just one perfect example among many others.

Good post. It really is a shame that more people don't look at the big picture.

 

[Lissa]

Children are normally implanted before they are two so they can learn amd maybe start to talk by the time they are three/four. Miss Kat was a little bit older so she may take a while to talk if she has never spoke before, she has to learn how to speak, hear and use her implant at the same time.It's a big adjustment. Let us know how Miss Kat gets on

 

[rick48]

Deafteen..u are right..it will probably take years.

Not for many kids who are implanted close in time to the onset of deafness, recieve real oral s&l therapy and are imersed in a rich and full oral environment. These are the kids who generally develop good and fluent speech skills.

As for social aspects, as usual dd and you take what I say to the extreme, many of the oral deaf kids that I know have both hearing and deaf friends and maintain close relations with both. My point is that most kids, deaf and hearing alike usually do not maintain the same set of friends forever thus, I would not necessarily use the friendships a child has at the age of 5 to be the controlling factor in a child's educational placement.

Again, I am very aware of the social aspects and needs of any child and realize that, especially in the mainstream, good oral speech skills will play a critical role in the socialization of a deaf child.
Rick

 

[jillio]

Not for many kids who are implanted close in time to the onset of deafness, recieve real oral s&l therapy and are imersed in a rich and full oral environment. These are the kids who generally develop good and fluent speech skills.

As for social aspects, as usual dd and you take what I say to the extreme, many of the oral deaf kids that I know have both hearing and deaf friends and maintain close relations with both. My point is that most kids, deaf and hearing alike usually do not maintain the same set of friends forever thus, I would not necessarily use the friendships a child has at the age of 5 to be the controlling factor in a child's educational placement.

Again, I am very aware of the social aspects and needs of any child and realize that, especially in the mainstream, good oral speech skills will play a critical role in the socialization of a deaf child.Rick

I've got reams of research that says different. In fact, several members of this forum have that research, as I sent out several copies.

 

[shel90]

I've got reams of research that says different. In fact, several members of this forum have that research, as I sent out several copies.

Ok so by what Rick is saying, any deaf child who has good oral skills automatically will fit in the hearing world? Then, why do so many oral deaf children feel lost and isolated until they meet or connect with others in the Deaf community? Ooooh ok.

 

[jillio]

Ok so by what Rick is saying, any deaf child who has good oral skills automatically will fit in the hearing world? Then, why do so many oral deaf children feel lost and isolated until they meet or connect with others in the Deaf community? Ooooh ok.

Exactly. I think I sent you a copy of that research, didn't I? If not, I will. In fact, it shows that oral skills do not improve a child's social experience in the mainstream. That is a myth perpetrated by the oralists, and believed by parents that want to think it is true to justify their decisions. Millions of deaf people and much research shows that it simply is not true.

 

[Jiro]

As for social aspects, as usual dd and you take what I say to the extreme, many of the oral deaf kids that I know have both hearing and deaf friends and maintain close relations with both. My point is that most kids, deaf and hearing alike usually do not maintain the same set of friends forever thus, I would not necessarily use the friendships a child has at the age of 5 to be the controlling factor in a child's educational placement.

Again, I am very aware of the social aspects and needs of any child and realize that, especially in the mainstream, good oral speech skills will play a critical role in the socialization of a deaf child.
Rick

I still maintain friendships with the same set of friends (more than 10 people) "forever." Our friendship began when we wore diapers (no really... kindergarten). I started moving about 4x in my life since 9th grade (1996).

At that time - Internet was at its early stage and things like facebook/AIM/myspace/etc didn't exist at that time so it was hard for me to keep in touch with them via phone calls. Year 2004 or so was the boon of the Internet Age at its best and everybody have emails, AIM, etc... We managed to find each other thru Internet and the bonds are still very strong as if it was yesterday even though we have not spoken with each other for several years.

see BOLD print of your post - I beg to differ. I am oral deaf person and since I grew up in oral-only environment... my social skill was immatured compared to my peers even though my academic skill was ahead of them. My academic skill was probably 2 grades ahead of my peers but my social skill was about 2-3 grades behind. When I look back at my early year - I was embarrassed because I had done things that were awkward and inappropriate... I blame that on being very communicatively-limited in oral/hearing environment and that retarded my social development. The result would probably be better than mine and easier on my parents if I attended deaf school.

If you recall from long debate - deaf students do not limit themselves to deaf-only lifestyle for rest of their life. It actually helps them make a transition into mainstream (hearing environment) better.

 

[Jiro]

Exactly. I think I sent you a copy of that research, didn't I? If not, I will. In fact, it shows that oral skills do not improve a child's social experience in the mainstream. That is a myth perpetrated by the oralists, and believed by parents that want to think it is true to justify their decisions. Millions of deaf people and much research shows that it simply is not true.

please do send me that copy as well.

 

[rick48]

I've got reams of research that says different. In fact, several members of this forum have that research, as I sent out several copies.

I would love to see the research that says that deaf children with poor oral skills find it easier to socialize with hearing children in the mainstream then deaf children with good oral language skills.

If having good oral language skills is not a key factor for deaf children developing social relationships with their hearing peers then what, according to your "reams" of yet to be produced research, are those key factors?

If, as you claim, several members of this forum allegedly have this research, then sending it to others should not be such a big deal.

 

[rick48]

Ok so by what Rick is saying, any deaf child who has good oral skills automatically will fit in the hearing world? Then, why do so many oral deaf children feel lost and isolated until they meet or connect with others in the Deaf community? Ooooh ok.

That is not even remotely close to what I wrote.

 

[rick48]

I still maintain friendships with the same set of friends (more than 10 people) "forever." Our friendship began when we wore diapers (no really... kindergarten). I started moving about 4x in my life since 9th grade (1996).

At that time - Internet was at its early stage and things like facebook/AIM/myspace/etc didn't exist at that time so it was hard for me to keep in touch with them via phone calls. Year 2004 or so was the boon of the Internet Age at its best and everybody have emails, AIM, etc... We managed to find each other thru Internet and the bonds are still very strong as if it was yesterday even though we have not spoken with each other for several years.

see BOLD print of your post - I beg to differ. I am oral deaf person and since I grew up in oral-only environment... my social skill was immatured compared to my peers even though my academic skill was ahead of them. My academic skill was probably 2 grades ahead of my peers but my social skill was about 2-3 grades behind. When I look back at my early year - I was embarrassed because I had done things that were awkward and inappropriate... I blame that on being very communicatively-limited in oral/hearing environment and that retarded my social development. The result would probably be better than mine and easier on my parents if I attended deaf school.

If you recall from long debate - deaf students do not limit themselves to deaf-only lifestyle for rest of their life. It actually helps them make a transition into mainstream (hearing environment) better.

Good for you that you maintain those friendships but what I wrote was stated in general terms as there are always exceptions. Again, as to what you experienced, and since I have no way of knowing whether you have good oral skills or not, I am speaking in general terms. Since you have described yourself as "being very communicatively-limited in oral/hearing environment" it may be that you do not have the oral skills that many children who received their cochlear implants at an early age do indeed possess.

From what I have experienced both with my own child and with other deaf children, those who thrived socially in the mainstream tended to have better oral skills. The fact that they could speak and communicate orally to hearing children was a benefit to them.

Since this is a thread by a parent seeking IEP help, this is my last post responding on these non-IEP issues. If you want to continue it then do it somewhere else and let this thread get back to its intended purpose.
Rick

 

[AlleyCat]

Good for you that you maintain those friendships but what I wrote was stated in general terms as there are always exceptions. Again, as to what you experienced, and since I have no way of knowing whether you have good oral skills or not, I am speaking in general terms. Since you have described yourself as "being very communicatively-limited in oral/hearing environment" it may be that you do not have the oral skills that many children who received their cochlear implants at an early age do indeed possess.

From what I have experienced both with my own child and with other deaf children, those who thrived socially in the mainstream tended to have better oral skills. The fact that they could speak and communicate orally to hearing children was a benefit to them.

Since this is a thread by a parent seeking IEP help, this is my last post responding on these non-IEP issues. If you want to continue it then do it somewhere else and let this thread get back to its intended purpose.
Rick

Good post, as always. The bolded part, especially -- "From what I have experienced both with my own child and with other deaf children, those who thrived socially in the mainstream tended to have better oral skills." It definitely applies to me.

 

[Jiro]

Good post, as always. The bolded part, especially -- "From what I have experienced both with my own child and with other deaf children, those who thrived socially in the mainstream tended to have better oral skills." It definitely applies to me.

only for HOH with certain damage but not for many who have bad hearing to the point where trying to hear is pointless.

 

[AlleyCat]

only for HOH with certain damage but not for many who have bad hearing to the point where trying to hear is pointless.

How do you figure? I have a profound hearing loss yet I socialized very well in the mainstream (from an oral standpoint) - I have good speaking skills. Many other deaf people on this forum have said the same.

 

[AlleyCat]

Meaning that my level of hearing loss isn't always proportionate to speaking/socializing skills.