I can't take it anymore

I think something wrong with thread I stuck page 2
 
hoichi said:
I was born hearie, i am deaf, at 9 as a kid. I remember vividly how hearies turned like hungry dogs at me..because i couldnt hear. I remember vividly how deafie school was with me. I remember sound.
Its a big deal only if you let thd loss of it be a loss. Instead for me the loss of sound became my gain with sign.
Sign conpletely filled that void of loss. all you have to do is accept it, and learn sign. you are deaf.it is our language. Far superior to cochlear. This fetish to become a.robot, a half.breed android. computer in skull, drilled holes in your head is not very healthy...its driven by fear. and multinational companies make loads of money of of your fear.
First day in.deafie.school. the other deafies, i remember. Signed and i didnt know it they then write down
Its alright...your deaf...and start show me sign.its alright...its alright..
if people. Accept deaf not as a curse, not as an afliction to.be cured at all costs...rather deaf bieng deaf is a gift...contrary to the howls and gnashing of the teath of hearie hungry dogs...it is a gift to.be deaf. Just think if the billions in cochlear companies instead went to sign...how better deaf and you would be..but its abouT manipulating your fear for.them to gain more money...
just accept your gift...learn sign...thats all you ever need. Other deafies are here for you, you are not alone. We wont drill holes into your head. We wont bleed you dry of thousands, we will teach you our sign.for free, if you just ask us...
Cochlear implant. Is about and driven by fear. Its about looking at deaf as less then hearie. At deaf as defective in need of solution and cure...
Sign is more.healthy. its more human then technology drilled into you for profits sake....all you have to do is not.be afraid.
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By 9 years old you would have had complete language acquisition and would have been firmly entrenched in the hearing world. You would also completely understand why someone would want to get any hearing back and what the value of hearing is. You would be culturally hearing, like it or not.

Something isn't adding up. I can understand accepting total deafness and reverting to ASL, but you act as someone who has no real comprehension of hearing. You advised someone who made it clear he misses music while waiting for his new implants that ASL would free him. Someone with 9 solid years of normal hearing does not do that.

CI companies are not an evil entity out to get you. They exist because there is demand for it and because they work. There was demand before they ever existed. You're acting like those people who are being forced to get gay married when gay marriage is legalized. No one is making you get gay married or get a CI. It's for people who want to.

There are a whole hell of a lot of people out there who lose their hearing in adulthood who have zero interest, nor would their quality of life be complete, in becoming ASL using deafies while leaving their family, friends, and work all behind. Cochlear Implants make it possible for them to retain who they are as a person with their relationships and interests intact. You want to tell the mother I mentor, who is in tears because she needs to rely on her own children to interact with the rest of the world, placing pressure on them, that ASL will set her free? It's more relying on someone else to handle your **** for you. It's more complication of what should be very simple and quick interactions that don't involve having to wait for an interpreter to be available. So she's using ASL with her kids now so they can interpret for her. Whoo Hoo, they are all really set free now!

Once you realize CIs are not about you, you'll be set free. You are literally running around like those crazy religious right folks who want to meddle and suppress the rights/access of others because they "don't agree with it" or find it immoral.
 
BleedingPurist said:
By 9 years old you would have had complete language acquisition and would have been firmly entrenched in the hearing world. You would also completely understand why someone would want to get any hearing back and what the value of hearing is. You wouldi be culturally hearing, like it or not.
l.
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thus my point Here. I remember sound, and i also am deaf, ive spent fsr longer as deaf then i have as hearie. in deaf school allot of deaf were born deaf, we all were deaf kids, we all signed...i know the value of our language...i know what the hell im talkon aboit...i know both worlds..as for my culture. for 9 years i was hearie...for the rest od my lifeand thats decades ive been Deaf.

BleedingPurist said:
Something isn't adding up. I can understand accepting total deafness and reverting to ASL, but you act as someone who has no real comprehension of hearing. You advised someone who made it clear he misses music while waiting for his new implants that ASL would free him. Someone with 9 solid years of normal hearing does not do that.
l.
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I do. its not that hard to understand...not for me.i dont know what elese to say, ive been deaf for decdes i was a hearie for 9 years. Im Deaf. sign for me filled your void.

BleedingPurist said:
CI companies are not an evil entity out to get you. They exist because there is demand for it and because they work. There was demand before they ever existed. You're acting like those people who are being forced to get gay married when gay marriage is legalized. No one is making you get gay married or get a CI. It's for people who want to. .
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I never claimed they were evil. I claimed they are profit driven. And that there goal is a solution for Deafness. They exist becauae of a demand. millions and millions of dollors of marketing, indeed works wonders That demand is affecting my culture in a negative way. as its not just abut adults. Its about babies, its about supression of our language so they dont revert back to deaf, that is having a negative impact on our culture and language. some nations parents do not have a choice. in america there is cohecion and manipulation, your nieve if you .believe otherwise, or just blinded by ideology

BleedingPurist said:
There are a whole hell of a lot of people out there who lose their hearing in adulthood who have zero interest, nor would their quality of life be complete, in becoming ASL using deafies while leaving their family, friends, and work all behind. Cochlear Implants make it possible for them to retain who they are as a person with their relationships and interests intact. You want to tell the mother I mentor, who is in tears because she needs to rely on her own children to interact with the rest of the world, placing pressure on them, that ASL will set her free? It's more relying on someone else to handle your **** for you. It's more complication of what should be very simple and quick interactions that don't involve having to wait for an interpreter to be available. So she's using ASL with her kids now so they can interpret for her. Whoo Hoo, they are all really set free now!
l.
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You dont have to leave your families. if you learn aSL.what nonsense. Or your friends. If your family wants to be a part of you life, its not that hard for them to learn with you. Same with your friends. Ive taught my hearie feiends. Those who wish to be my friend, had no plm what so ever learning sign and sign with me. my work. Its done obviously in english, sign has picked up by osmosis, and allot of signing is done too..as for your question about the mother. Yes absolutely i woild tell her sign wil her free. No need for tears. Its nof relying on anyone else. I sign to the hearie worlD, i was voice off for almost 20 years.. sign set me free.


BleedingPurist said:
Once you realize CIs are not about you, you'll be set free. You are literally running around like those crazy religious right folks who want to meddle and suppress the rights/access of others because they "don't agree with it" or find it immoral.
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Oh i know.CI isnt aboUt me. ive explained my position, and why. if im sounding religious, fine, and your sounding like just the typical bigot. But i want to discuss the ideas here and not attack eachother personally. We are adults. With different opinions. Cool. its good to be talking with you about it.
 
hoichi, even if cochlear implants were being given away for free and didn't involve any surgery, I get the feeling you'd still be trying to convince late-deafened people that they shouldn't get them and that they should switch to ASL instead.

The bottom line seems to be that you as a Deaf person feel threatened by the demand for cochlear implants because they mean fewer people are learning ASL and becoming part of Deaf culture. I understand that, however, there's just no way that you or any Deaf person is going to be able to convince me that my learning ASL so that I can talk to the roughly 1% of people in the U.S. who can communicate with it would be a better solution for me (if I lose all my hearing) than getting a cochlear implant that will help me continue to communicate with the other 99% as I have been all my life.

I've never spoken to any representatives of any of the manufacturers of cochlear implants, so no one has "coerced" me into having that opinion. My opinion comes from living almost 50 years as a hoh person who communicates via speech and listening. I know that that's the form of communication I would want to keep above all others, if at all possible.

I don't want to have to depend on interpreters when I go to dr. appointments or to the store and have questions. I don't want to give up listening to music and all the other sounds I enjoy. I don't want to have to teach my friends and family ASL. I'm happy communicating the way I do now and living my life as I do now, so I have no reason to want to change any of that.

Look, I'm sorry that you're afraid of losing your culture, but your fears are not going to have any influence over any decision I make about how I'm going to communicate with people in the future. Deaf culture won't ever be my culture, and it's not up to me to save it. You might as well be suggesting to me that I learn Japanese. I could learn it and start teaching all my friends and family Japanese in order to talk with them, but why would I??? It makes no sense to do that when I and everyone else I know already share English as a common language, that's why! That's how I feel about ASL.

Deaf, deaf, and hoh people share some common experiences and problems, but in other ways we're all very different. Maybe you should respect those differences more instead of trying to "convert" hoh and deaf people to be Deaf. It's rude.
 
Crickets said:
hoichi, even if cochlear implants were being given away for free and didn't involve any surgery, I get the feeling you'd still be trying to convince late-deafened people that they shouldn't get them and that they should switch to ASL instead.de.
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Yes i would. ASL is the superior technology.

Crickets said:
The bottom line seems to be that you as a Deaf person feel threatened by the demand for cochlear implants because they mean fewer people are learning ASL and becoming part of Deaf culture. I understand that, however, there's just no way that you or any Deaf person is going to be able to convince me that my learning ASL so that I can talk to the roughly 1% of people in the U.S. who can communicate with it would be a better solution for me (if I lose all my hearing) than getting a cochlear implant that will help me continue to communicate with the other 99% as I have been all my life.de.
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I dont feal threatened. My language and culture are.directly threatened. Its not about me, its the future. I use ASL daily. I use it with every one. Most are hearie.i communicate just fine. With english, if i speak it, or written, if those dont understand asl, or asl with those who do. Those who wished tobw a part of my life in a meaningfull way have learned it. Those who didnt and wished to remain strangers didnt. But thats what strangers are. Deafness seperates you from people, ASL is a technology that bridges that devidE. All it takes is the will to learn. the hearie that have wished to be a part of my life, through me have learned it. My friends, my family. Your fear mongering
Doesnt cut it with me.

Crickets said:
I've never spoken to any representatives of any of the manufacturers of cochlear implants, so no one has "coerced" me into having that opinion. My opinion comes from living almost 50 years as a hoh person who communicates via speech and listening. I know that that's the form of communication I would want to keep above all others, if at all possible.de.de.
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You do not exist in a vacume. Its rather clear, the main ideology that drives cochlear inplant companies has grestly influenced you. Cohercion can and does take many forms so does manipulation. I cant convince, you can educate yourself by looking into advertising and how ideas and products are advertised. Its nothing but manipulation. And thats the very reason.why companies pay millions to professional advertising firms to market their products..futher this discussion isnt about you personaly. Its about multi national companies.with deep pockets, spreading a technology that impacts negatevely on my language and my culture. A technology the OP of this thread is very very frustrsted with. you in your bubble, is just first world way for you to ignore the ramifications of the technology you very much suppport and push. The rest be damned


Crickets said:
I don't want to have to depend on interpreters when I go to dr. appointments or to the store and have questions. I don't want to give up listening to music and all the other sounds I enjoy. I don't want to have to teach my friends and family ASL. I'm happy communicating the way I do now and living my life as I do now, so I have no reason to want to change any of that.de.de.
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I dont rely on terps.for doc apt, nor when i go to the store. again if you want a cochlear so be it. Your an.adult. im offering the better technology, the better alternative. You can choose the worse bargain if thats what you want. im also pointing out your selfishness..(me, me, me, i want, i want, i want) has a negative impact directly on others. Whether you give a **** or not is on you.

Crickets said:
Look, I'm sorry that you're afraid of losing your culture, but your fears are not going to have any influence over any decision I make about how I'm going to communicate with people in the future. Deaf culture won't ever be my culture, and it's not up to me to save it. You might as well be suggesting to me that I learn Japanese. I could learn it and start teaching all my friends and family Japanese in order to talk with them, but why would I??? It makes no sense to do that when I and everyone else I know already share English as a common language, that's why! That's how I feel about ASL. .
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it can.be your culture if you want iT. Im a deaf guy, this is a deaf board. Alldeaf. If this was a forum. Called alljapanese, id expect you would come.across others who use japanese as their language and have japanese as their culture.

Crickets said:
Deaf, deaf, and hoh people share some common experiences and problems, but in other ways we're all very different. Maybe you should respect those differences more instead of trying to "convert" hoh and deaf people to be Deaf. It's rude.
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I do repect them. maybe you should too,rather then trying to be dismisive and ignore the costs and ramifications of the technology you, even though by your own words do not need, here are pushing.
nice. You keep feeling sorry, and ill keep offering the superior technology, and better alternative...no plm at all
 
I don't need cochlear implants now, but I'm losing my hearing, so there's a chance I may want them in the future, so I'm trying to find out more about them. I like hearing, so I'm going to prefer an option that will allow me to keep hearing, if I need that option someday. I'm not "pushing" cochlear implants on anyone else; I'm talking about what I want to be able to continue to do, and why my learning ASL makes no sense for me. Learning ASL may make sense for other hoh people, and that's wonderful for them if that's what they decide to do.

If I do get a cochlear implant someday and can hear again because of it (even if it's not "perfect"), and a corporation makes thousands of dollars because of that, then I'll consider that a very good trade and money well spent. I see helping people who want to hear as a good thing. I see hearing parents having the choice to raise their deaf child in their own culture (hearing) by giving them a cochlear implant as a good thing. If hearing parents decide to raise their child as Deaf, then more power to them. It's about having the choice.
 
Crickets said:
I don't need cochlear implants now, but I'm losing my hearing, so there's a chance I may want them in the future, so I'm trying to find out more about them. I like hearing, so I'm going to prefer an option that will allow me to keep hearing, if I need that option someday. I'm not "pushing" cochlear implants on anyone else; I'm talking about what I want to be able to continue to do, and why my learning ASL makes no sense for me. Learning ASL may make sense for other hoh people, and that's wonderful for them if that's what they decide to do. e.
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You fail to grasp here, that you personaly are not pushing this technology on anyone The very same companies that implant adults, the very same companies that get huge profits for it,are the very same companies.that implant babies. In some countries.parents do not hsve a choice. Your only talking about what YOU want. Regardless.if there is any ramifications to others by what you want. That kind of thinking has got us a poluted world, amongst other things.buy hey, as long as YOU get what you want, and nothing ill happens in your back yard. To hell with any one else. this is just a standard colonial way to view minority cultures. To hell with them or anybody...as long as YOU Get what you want.

Crickets said:
I If I do get a cochlear implant someday and can hear again because of it (even if it's not "perfect"), and a corporation makes thousands of dollars because of that, then I'll consider that a very good trade and money well spent. I see helping people who want to hear as a good thing. I see hearing parents having the choice to raise their deaf child in their own culture (hearing) by giving them a cochlear implant as a good thing. If hearing parents decide to raise their child as Deaf, then more power to them. It's about having the choice.
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Righf, and the money you think.is a good thing they earn, goes directly in.targeting my culture. You want hearie parents to.bring up deaf children in hearie cultude, yet my culture, my language to hell with me and them...you keep bringing up chooce, and i keep trying to explain to you the choice in some.countires is non existant in others extremely socialy conditioned, with cohersion, and manipulation. Ignore it all you want. Fact thogh is fact
I get it. I do..
At least you come by it honestly, ill grant you that..
 
I'm with "choice". You choose to do it or you choose not to. Yes, someone will make money... but then, it's your choice to give it to them based on what value you get in return.

Gotta be honest with you Hoichi... I never got the whole "deaf culture" thing. I was born where they were ignorant to the fact I was deaf and thought I was slow. Once they figured it out, guess what? I kicked butt. Then they tried to put me in special groups for the hearing impaired, special classes. It was AWFUL to me. Super depressing. The other kids in this group who were in it since they were born, were coddled and too sheltered. Treated as if they were mentally handicapped. We were separated from the rest of the hearing world. Isolated. Ugh, I got out of that ASAP. What was sad is that they were so isolated, they probably never got to succeed beyond what they were told they could.

I did voc rehab and it did help me out but then I learned too that I could help myself out with hard work. So, yes, I went to a hearing college, got my degree, all on my own coin. Was it hard work? Heck yeah. But, communicating my lack thereof, always helped.

I don't know, just feel like going too much the route of deaf culture can be a negative but that's just me and my experience. No offense to anyone who had a GOOD experience from such.
 
jollyrj said:
I'm with "choice". You choose to do it or you choose not to. Yes, someone will make money... but then, it's your choice to give it to them based on what value you get in return. uch.
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Yet this ssme money will.be used to.restrict others choices. You support choice, yet these same compsnies yiu support, sre the very ssme onws implwnting in.cointries where parents have no choice..hypocracy

jollyrj said:
IGotta be honest with you Hoichi... I never got the whole "deaf culture" thing. I was born where they were ignorant to the fact I was deaf and thought I was slow. Once they figured it out, guess what? I kicked butt. Then they tried to put me in special groups for the hearing impaired, special classes. It was AWFUL to me. Super depressing. The other kids in this group who were in it since they were born, were coddled and too sheltered. Treated as if they were mentally handicapped. We were separated from the rest of the hearing world. Isolated. Ugh, I got out of that ASAP. What was sad is that they were so isolated, they probably never got to succeed beyond what they were told they could.

I did voc rehab and it did help me out but then I learned too that I could help myself out with hard work. So, yes, I went to a hearing college, got my degree, all on my own coin. Was it hard work? Heck yeah. But, communicating my lack thereof, always helped. uch.
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Im not sure i get your point here....

jollyrj said:
II don't know, just feel like going too much the route of deaf culture can be a negative but that's just me and my experience. No offense to anyone who had a GOOD experience from such.
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You just said my culture is a negative and dont want.me to be offended.
What rubish!!
So you have had a bad experience with what yoi claim is my culture, since you sont sign, id say yiur experience with it is rather limited. You have a bad experience with a culture, so?
What should be done...a solution found.for us? Your not getting it.bwe are effected in a negative way...and wll ibget is me, me, me, me, or i want, i want, i want,
Yeah we know.where selfish thinking has gotten the world when it comes to products and not giving a damn who the hell gets hurt as long as.we have them..
 
hoichi said:
Yet this ssme money will.be used to.restrict others choices. You support choice, yet these same compsnies yiu support, sre the very ssme onws implwnting in.cointries where parents have no choice..hypocracy


Im not sure i get your point here....




You just said my culture is a negative and dont want.me to be offended.
What rubish!!
So you have had a bad experience with what yoi claim is my culture, since you sont sign, id say yiur experience with it is rather limited. You have a bad experience with a culture, so?
What should be done...a solution found.for us? Your not getting it.bwe are effected in a negative way...and wll ibget is me, me, me, me, or i want, i want, i want,
Yeah we know.where selfish thinking has gotten the world when it comes to products and not giving a damn who the hell gets hurt as long as.we have them..
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I'm definitely not getting into a pissing match with you as you have your experiences and I have mine. I respect both. That's why I said "my experience". Kind of shameful not to respect that. I'm part of the deaf community (or culture) too .. what I said is that going too far in that direction FOR ME was not a good experience, for me/myself/and I. More power to those who have benefited from it. It could be just where I live and what they had to offer?

I will ask you, what is your hearing loss? Are you 100% deaf in both ears? I'm 100% deaf in my left and 80% deaf in my right.
 
Again Hoichi, this is MY OPINION, because I'm entitled to one just as you are but it seems you are angry at hearing society. Why is that? Am I just reading you wrong?

One more.. do you live in the U.S.? You mentioned countries where they don't have a choice in the matter so I'm assuming you are basing this off your experience?

Also, I'm going to learn ASL and very excited about it. Guess what? My hearing friends can't wait to learn it with me.
 
jollyrj said:
Again Hoichi, this is MY OPINION, because I'm entitled to one just as you are but it seems you are angry at hearing society. Why is that? Am I just reading you wrong?

One more.. do you live in the U.S.? You mentioned countries where they don't have a choice in the matter so I'm assuming you are basing this off your experience?

Also, I'm going to learn ASL and very excited about it. Guess what? My hearing friends can't wait to learn it with me.
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You maybe reading me wrong, but its more likely the fault is mine for not choosing the right words to explain my thoughts. So for that im sorry, and will try better to.explain what im thinking..
I am angry at the way hearie culture and hearie society views me, (defective in need of a solution and.cure), and its ideology audism, that drives a multi billion dollor insustry founded for the sole purpose of ridding the world of people like me, as is the Deaf.
I think If this was only about adults doing with their bodies whatbthey want, you would see a different response from many deafies. But its not just about that. Its about my language, and Culture. Thus you will have resistance.ive seen what hs happened, i see.the writing on the wall..and.just because its inevetible, just because one day, if these companies reach there goal, and find a solution.for those like me, and our language, our signs, our poems, our stories will be tossed in the corpse heap along with other minority cultures and language that dared stand in the way of progress..i think truly.
The world will be a worse place for it...
At present i live in canada, but i have lived in your country too...multinational companies.span borders...by their very nature..and so im not going stop at a border with my views on this. neither should you.
Its good your going.to learn ASL, and as for your hearie friends learning, thats been my experience.too. thus one of my points...
 
Bottesini said:
HL measured in db not %.
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Yes, you're right. You can also refer to it in %, a term the hearing world understands better. Decibels, not so much, speaking from my experience when talking to people who hear. :) I forget I'm talking to people that understand when I'm in here.
 
jollyrj said:
I'm definitely not getting into a pissing match with you as you have your experiences and I have mine. I respect both. That's why I said "my experience". Kind of shameful not to respect that. I'm part of the deaf community (or culture) too .. what I said is that going too far in that direction FOR ME was not a good experience, for me/myself/and I. More power to those who have benefited from it. It could be just where I live and what they had to offer?

I will ask you, what is your hearing loss? Are you 100% deaf in both ears? I'm 100% deaf in my left and 80% deaf in my right.
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The plm here is the world doesnt just function on yoir experience. Slavery still exists in many countries, just because yoi havnt experienced it doesnt mean the criric against slavery is unfounded. you need to step away from a personal experience approach and look at whay exactly is happening here..its not about you..
As for my hearing. Im DEAF. I have dead.people sometimes mumble in.my left ear...or call it what.ever. i was born hearie, i got lucky and became Deaf at 9. I have spent the vast majority of my life DEAF. i dont wear aids. I sign, and was voice off for 20 years. I went to a.residential government school for the deaf, i went to gAly.
Been so long since the last.adiogram...right ear is dead, lefr esr, close to it...im DEAF
Hope that answers your question
 
As a bilateral DEAF person, still trying to figure out how ASL is "technology"?
 
hoichi said:
The plm here is the world doesnt just function on yoir experience. Slavery still exists in many countries, just because yoi havnt experienced it doesnt mean the criric against slavery is unfounded. you need to step away from a personal experience approach and look at whay exactly is happening here..its not about you..
As for my hearing. Im DEAF. I have dead.people sometimes mumble in.my left ear...or call it what.ever. i was born hearie, i got lucky and became Deaf at 9. I have spent the vast majority of my life DEAF. i dont wear aids. I sign, and was voice off for 20 years. I went to a.residential government school for the deaf, i went to gAly.
Been so long since the last.adiogram...right ear is dead, lefr esr, close to it...im DEAF
Hope that answers your question
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Sigh.. I do not understand your anger but yeah, ok. It's yours to have and your right to be. I choose happiness, being positive, embracing my deafness, loving others, having an open mind, respecting others opinions and perspectives, and just trying to enjoy life. I can only cast my vote and fret over what is in my control.

Keep on Keepin' on Hoichi! Peace and good luck to ya!
 
jollyrj said:
Sigh.. I do not understand your anger but yeah, ok. It's yours to have and your right to be. I choose happiness, being positive, embracing my deafness, loving others, having an open mind, respecting others opinions and perspectives, and just trying to enjoy life. I can only cast my vote and fret over what is in my control.

Keep on Keepin' on Hoichi! Peace and good luck to ya!
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I cant argue with this...you keep on keepin too jollyrj
Its a pleasure chatting, and hope we chat more,
 
jollyrj said:
I don't know, just feel like going too much the route of deaf culture can be a negative but that's just me and my experience. No offense to anyone who had a GOOD experience from such.
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There's not such a thing as a "route" to deaf culture. You're either immersed into it by upbringing or involvement with late deafened by way of ASL, deaf friendships, etc.

If you see it as a route, or an all-or-nothing, you can either immerse yourself (why are you here otherwise?) or not involve yourself with the deaf community. Sounds as if you are negative on the idea of being friends with other deaf who sign and have their own culture. It's been discussed to death here on this board. You could read up on it.
 
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