Hearing people's view of CI

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shel90 said:
Have you ever heard of doing both? Whats wrong with that?
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Nothing, if that is what the parents have determined to be in their child's best interests.

Who on this forum by the way is saying it is wrong to do both?
 
rick48 said:
The fact is the OP made a simplified and generalized statement about why parents choose cis for their children, "jump at them" I think was the scientific term he/she used. You may not like to hear it but the overwhelming majority of the parents I have met over the last 25 years who made the decision put time, effort and research into their decision. It is not a decision lightly made and for those who chose the implant for their child, it is one usually made because of what they believe the cochlear implant can provide their child and not based on fear of a life without one.
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It is all extrapolation thinking.
 
set2 said:
Grayma,

Late deafened adults tend to benefit more with CIs because they have "auditory" memory. This auditory memory helps ones brain make sense of all the the beeps and strange noises one hears at first with an implant. I am late deafened and have bilateral CIs. Like your friend,s Uncle I also find that things don't sound all that different. If someone was born deaf it will be harder and take longer to learn to hear with the implants because they won't have the auditory memory.
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Yup. It is like an implanted person who was born blind thinks that yellow is orange when an implanted person who became blind at later age would know that it is the wrong color and should be yellow and ask the experts to make an adjustment to make it the right color and shade (like canary yellow). That is the best visual analogy I can think of.
 
Cloggy, out of curiosity, you don't sign with Lotte, right? (At least if I remember correctly from your previous posts?) I've forgotten which language you said she speaks - is it Dutch or Norwegian? Is one more difficult than the other to hear or speak? Probably not that important, but I was wondering if she is able to hear/understand every single word in her language with the CI?
 
AlleyCat said:
Cloggy, out of curiosity, you don't sign with Lotte, right? (At least if I remember correctly from your previous posts?) I've forgotten which language you said she speaks - is it Dutch or Norwegian? Is one more difficult than the other to hear or speak? Probably not that important, but I was wondering if she is able to hear/understand every single word in her language with the CI?
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Cloggy's daughter speaks at least three languages. Cloggy has stated many times that although his daughter was initially exposed to sign and was learning it, as a result of her implant giving her access to sounds and the ability to utilize spoken languages she gravitated towrds them and away from sign.
 
deafdyke said:
She is NOT hearing. She is HOH! You're buying into the myth that HOH= more hearing then deaf. She can interact with the hearing world yes, and function pretty well....but bear in mind that your daughter is still young. A lot of oral kids do well when they are young b/c things are really easy. BUT things change....wait til fourth grade, wait til middle and high school. The world is not a soundbooth, and those of us who are dhh and "hear" through CI or HA do not hear like hearing people. We hear like HOH.........which means we hear like deaf people who can hear. If you could hear what a CI or HA sounds like, to a person who was born/early dhh you would understand. Even I don't hear like a hearing person and I have a conducitve loss.
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I said "she can hear".. that's all.
I learned on AD that I cannot say "she's hearing".. (.. see DeafCaroline.. I do listen)
 
AlleyCat said:
Cloggy, out of curiosity, you don't sign with Lotte, right? (At least if I remember correctly from your previous posts?) I've forgotten which language you said she speaks - is it Dutch or Norwegian? Is one more difficult than the other to hear or speak? Probably not that important, but I was wondering if she is able to hear/understand every single word in her language with the CI?
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No.. we don't sign with Lotte.
Dutch and Norwegian.. And English is starting..
Yes... she hears every single word..
 
AlleyCat said:
Cloggy, out of curiosity, you don't sign with Lotte, right? (At least if I remember correctly from your previous posts?) I've forgotten which language you said she speaks - is it Dutch or Norwegian? Is one more difficult than the other to hear or speak? Probably not that important, but I was wondering if she is able to hear/understand every single word in her language with the CI?
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Cloggy is extrapolating questions and answers, but good question. One can discuss what kind of pressure he puts on his daughter by makin claims like this on Internet. Am i allowed, with deep concerns, to use "possible case of abuse", without getting banned, naisho?

You can check his blog, his daughter is basically hoh. She had speech therapy and use/used FM equipment.
 
rick48 said:
Nothing, if that is what the parents have determined to be in their child's best interests.

Who on this forum by the way is saying it is wrong to do both?
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Sounds like many of you support the oral-only philosophy. I dont see many of you actively supporting ASL or Deaf culture for your children.
 
shel90 said:
Sounds like many of you support the oral-only philosophy. I dont see many of you actively supporting ASL or Deaf culture for your children.
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If you are addressing your comments towards the collective "you" then you are misinformed as FJ and Grendel have stated many times that they have and continue to expose their children both to ASL and to Deaf Culture and C Sign while using SEE I believe also to Deaf Culture. As to "support" of the oral-only philosophy I believe that while they have not chosen it for their children they do not believe it is right to deny it to other children as there is no one method that works for all deaf children.

If, as I truly believe, you are directing your comments towards me personally then again you are misinformed as I have stated many times that the path we chose for our daughter is not the one we believe all deaf children should follow. Again, I think I have stated well over a hundred times that there is no one or best method to raise and/or educate all deaf children.

Personally, while we raised our child with exposure to deaf adults and deaf children, no we chose not to expose her to Deaf Culture. Is there really a need to rehash all the instances where members of Deaf Culture called my daughter Frankenstein, a robot, a guinea pig or where we were called Nazis and child abusers or can we just agree that for a child implanted in 1989 and her family there was not much tolerance and openness shown to us by the Deaf Culture? Again, I think I have also stated this many, many times that my daughter has many deaf friends. Is your issue really with exposure to Deaf Culture or with exposure to the deaf community?

As for raising her oral-only again do I need to repeat the litany again? Why can't you just accept the fact that for her it worked and in large part because she was implanted early and we, especially my wife with her back ground as a teacher with a Masters in Spec Ed, closely monitored her progress. Yes, we chose oral-only initially but we continued that path because of her progress.

I do admit that back then the lines were more black and white between the use of sign and not using it but as I have seen the successes children such as Grendel's and FJ's kids as well as others on forums such as the ci circle I see that they are doing great with a combination of sign and spoken language.

So yes, I do support the use of oral-only as a choice as I cannot deny the benefits it has provided to my own child as well as many others I know but that does not mean I believe it is the path that is best for all deaf children.

I hope that addresses and answers your question.
 
rick48 said:
If you are addressing your comments towards the collective "you" then you are misinformed as FJ and Grendel have stated many times that they have and continue to expose their children both to ASL and to Deaf Culture and C Sign while using SEE I believe also to Deaf Culture. As to "support" of the oral-only philosophy I believe that while they have not chosen it for their children they do not believe it is right to deny it to other children as there is no one method that works for all deaf children.

If, as I truly believe, you are directing your comments towards me personally then again you are misinformed as I have stated many times that the path we chose for our daughter is not the one we believe all deaf children should follow. Again, I think I have stated well over a hundred times that there is no one or best method to raise and/or educate all deaf children.

Personally, while we raised our child with exposure to deaf adults and deaf children, no we chose not to expose her to Deaf Culture. Is there really a need to rehash all the instances where members of Deaf Culture called my daughter Frankenstein, a robot, a guinea pig or where we were called Nazis and child abusers or can we just agree that for a child implanted in 1989 and her family there was not much tolerance and openness shown to us by the Deaf Culture? Again, I think I have also stated this many, many times that my daughter has many deaf friends. Is your issue really with exposure to Deaf Culture or with exposure to the deaf community?

As for raising her oral-only again do I need to repeat the litany again? Why can't you just accept the fact that for her it worked and in large part because she was implanted early and we, especially my wife with her back ground as a teacher with a Masters in Spec Ed, closely monitored her progress. Yes, we chose oral-only initially but we continued that path because of her progress.

I do admit that back then the lines were more black and white between the use of sign and not using it but as I have seen the successes children such as Grendel's and FJ's kids as well as others on forums such as the ci circle I see that they are doing great with a combination of sign and spoken language.

So yes, I do support the use of oral-only as a choice as I cannot deny the benefits it has provided to my own child as well as many others I know but that does not mean I believe it is the path that is best for all deaf children.

I hope that addresses and answers your question.
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But I understand that she went to RIT for college and kind of joined up on her own anyway??

So the oral only philosophy kind of went out the window then, didn't it?
 
Bottesini said:
But I understand that she went to RIT for college and kind of joined up on her own anyway??

So the oral only philosophy kind of went out the window then, didn't it?
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Yes, she went to RIT, not NTID and if you know anything about RIT currently they have experienced such an influx of oral deaf students with cochlear implants that they established a cochlear implant center on campus and other services related to shift in the demographics of their deaf student population. Much credit goes to Dr. Hurwitz for seeing, preparing and positioning RIT for the future. Expect the same changes at Galluadet.

If by "joined up on her own" you mean gravitated towards other oral deaf students like herself who use spoken English as their primary and in some cases only means of communication, then you are right. In fact, several people she had known for years primarily through her contact with other oral deaf kids were her classmates at RIT. As for the oral-only philosophy not working it allowed her to attend the college of her choice, again RIT and not NTID, and she had choices between RIT and several other fine colleges, enter the program for her major which was not open to all RIT students and take all her classes in spoken English without interpreters and making the Dean's list, if that is your definition of "went out the window", then I hope you were as successful as her in college.

BTW in case I did not make it clear enough, I am extremely proud of her and her choices. She's a great kid, a wonderful daughter and now a great adult!
 
I know what's the difference between RIT and NTID. I know most people know about RIT and NTID. I knew several deaf who are asl users attended to RIT, not NTID as well.
 
rick48 said:
Yes, she went to RIT, not NTID and if you know anything about RIT currently they have experienced such an influx of oral deaf students with cochlear implants that they established a cochlear implant center on campus and other services related to shift in the demographics of their deaf student population. Much credit goes to Dr. Hurwitz for seeing, preparing and positioning RIT for the future. Expect the same changes at Galluadet.

If by "joined up on her own" you mean gravitated towards other oral deaf students like herself who use spoken English as their primary and in some cases only means of communication, then you are right. In fact, several people she had known for years primarily through her contact with other oral deaf kids were her classmates at RIT. As for the oral-only philosophy not working it allowed her to attend the college of her choice, again RIT and not NTID, and she had choices between RIT and several other fine colleges, enter the program for her major which was not open to all RIT students and take all her classes in spoken English without interpreters and making the Dean's list, if that is your definition of "went out the window", then I hope you were as successful as her in college.

BTW in case I did not make it clear enough, I am extremely proud of her and her choices. She's a great kid, a wonderful daughter and now a great adult!
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Thanks, yes indeed. I also know it should be as successful as "she." :)
 
Bottesini said:
Thanks, yes indeed. I also know it should be as successful as "she." :)
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Grammar ain't my forte!

I did do a grammar check and both uses: her or she passed but I will defer to any grammarians out there.
 
rick48 said:
Grammar ain't my forte!
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No problem. But on a serious note, what you are telling us about her college experience was that even with the early CI implant, she could not do it all on her own without help, and was in a special program for CI users.

Why do you think it is superior to create another deaf subset?
 
Cloggy said:
No.. we don't sign with Lotte.
Dutch and Norwegian.. And English is starting..
Yes... she hears every single word..
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But not understands every single word, right? I mean, you've said so.

That's what I fail to understand, why sign isn't given as another option to fill in the blanks, at least.
 
AlleyCat said:
But not understands every single word, right? I mean, you've said so.

That's what I fail to understand, why sign isn't given as another option to fill in the blanks, at least.
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I am not discussing the merits of knowing sign but if she is having a spoken conversation in Dutch with a person who only speaks Dutch and they say a word she hears but does not understand, how will knowing sign "fill in the blank"? That person cannot explain it to her in sign as they do not know sign. She cannot ask the person in sign to explain the meaning of the word for again, that person does not know sign. So again, how will knowing sign "fill in the blanks" of this conversation?
 
Bottesini said:
No problem. But on a serious note, what you are telling us about her college experience was that even with the early CI implant, she could not do it all on her own without help, and was in a special program for CI users.

Why do you think it is superior to create another deaf subset?
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No, that is not what I am saying at all. It is amazing how you only want to assume the worst.

She made RIT which if you know anything about the university has higher academic standards than NTID. Which is no different than other universities that have colleges that higher academic standards then other colleges in the university. Not only did she make RIT but the major she was in was not open to all RIT students as you had to separately apply and be accepted into the program as they had only a limited number of students they could accept each year.

She was not in a special program for CI users she was in a major with hearing and a few other deaf RIT students.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you ask: "Why do you think it is superior to create another deaf subset?" Would you care to explain that further?
 
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