Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[pek1]

I agree with u..it is like what my hearing coworker told me over the summer about what one of her friends told her. Her friend asked her what we, deaf people, are doing to improve ourselves. That kind of view and attitude is what Crystal is referring to..that CIs make all of us "normal" or solve our "problems". That attitude needs to be thrown in the trash.

Maria seconded this, I third it! To be asked that is tacky and shows what kind of mentality people have!

 

[Audiofuzzy]

One can't have CI and be "proud deaf"??

I asked specifically if the CI wearer can not be still PROUD deaf ??

Why not a poem about
""Some prefer to not get the HA and be deaf.
And some prefer to get the HA and yet they are still deaf
but just want to hear!!""

for that matter? why only CI is such a controversy? too advanced technologically for some?

"But this is just my view."

Yes, yes, I get it. You are saying CI is personal choice, and no one should be shunned because of choosing (or not) a CI. The deaf is deaf regardless of devices used.

But I am asking - why the need to point that out? What it is about CI that makes people so crazy?
This is not a personal attack on you, Brittany. I am attacking the point of this poem

. or lack thereof...

That's why it makes sense to say "f**k CI" and "proud to be deaf",

yeah... lot's of sense.. NOT.



Fuzzy

 

[rick48]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA............rick, you just can't see the forest for the trees. You and many other hearing parents have totally fallen for "your child will be able to function "normally" with CI (ie no 'terps, special ed, etc etc) That really is a BIG selling point. Especially with the parents that you know (I wouldn't assume that you would know too many TC parents)
And although the parents who are totally against Sign are getting pretty rare (YAY!) the "healthy normal" mentality in oralism is just so rampent. You just don't realize it, b/c you really don't know how to analyze things like media, language etc etc.

Interesting response which of course evoked the Pavlovian response from Jill but since you both are more concerned with pushing your agendas the response is not surprising.

Unlike you and Jill, I do know many ci parents and in numerous conversations with them over nearly 20 years I cannot think of anyone who thought their child would function normally with a ci. Further, I have never said that and I have stated in detail many times what we were told by ci surgeons and their implant teams. But why concern yourself with facts.

So where do you come up with the factual basis for your statement? Is it made up? Or are you merely parroting what you have heard someone else say some other time to someone else, etc. as you usually do?

And dearies, you should recall when my child was implanted (1989) and the fact that she did receive special education services all through K-12, so that bogus argument is full of more holes then Swiss chesse.

As to how you have determined what I can or cannot analyze quite frankly is of no interest to me. All I know is that I have raised a well rounded child who enjoys her life and is happy. Apparently that bothers the both you or makes you jealous but that is your problem to deal with, however it does make me laugh to know it bothers you so.

Oh, BTW still waiting for the name of one of those toys that increases your SAT scores.

 

[rick48]

Wow, this certainly was a dull attempt to dicuss semantics. Time to get an education?

Well if I am looking to be educated as to cochlear implants it will not be by you. My question was not an attempt to discuss semantics (look up the word) but rather for you to cite your support for your statement "that (sic) CI is used by too many people as a (sic) instrument to make deaf people "normal"."

That you cannot state what your factual basis is for your statement tells me that it is just another unsubstantiated allegation akin to other unsubstantiated allegations such as the ci being a "cure for deafness" or a "miracle".

"That's why it makes sense to say "f**k CI" and "proud to be deaf", "

Wow, talk about needing an education, how articulate.

 

[jillio]

Well if I am looking to be educated as to cochlear implants it will not be by you. My question was not an attempt to discuss semantics (look up the word) but rather for you to cite your support for your statement "that (sic) CI is used by too many people as a (sic) instrument to make deaf people "normal"."

That you cannot state what your factual basis is for your statement tells me that it is just another unsubstantiated allegation akin to other unsubstantiated allegations such as the ci being a "cure for deafness" or a "miracle".

"That's why it makes sense to say "f**k CI" and "proud to be deaf", "

Wow, talk about needing an education, how articulate.

Flip.......I'd say the support for your statement would be the origninal post in this thread.

 

[Maria]

I feel sorry for future CI small children when their hearin' parents put a " bionic " device stuff in on their " deaf " child to become a bionic kid to be able to hear. I feel it is NOT right to create a real livin' and normal deaf child to become a robot livin' creature. Yikes ! Hate to think of that. I feel soo sorry for the deaf child when their hearin' parents DON'T think of the deaf child's welfare. That deaf child is NOT a guinea pig!

 

[Angel]

What do you mean that hearing parents don't think of the deaf child's welfare?

 

[Cheri]

This is what I have a problem with, doctors encourage parents of deaf children not to wait on cochlear implants and that's why sparks often fly in the deaf community people like me for example. It seems even so that parents of deaf children don't have enough confidence to believe that their deaf children can have a quality of life without cochlear implant. Just because parents did their research on the deaf culture, that doesn't mean every child is gonna be alike.

briefly that one of the reasons I have such strong opinions against cochlear implants in children is the parents that doesn't have enough confidence, enough faith, enough trust. You may disagree with me, but it's the truth.

 

[rick48]

Flip.......I'd say the support for your statement would be the origninal post in this thread.

Yes, let's take a statement by someone, who is neither a ci user nor a parent of a ci child, overheard by someone not a participant in the conversation and possibly taken out of context and apply it as a universal truth to cover all those who chose a ci for either themselves or for their child or to represent all those who educate deaf children in the mainstream.

But of course you are not anti-ci.

 

[rick48]

I feel sorry for future CI small children when their hearin' parents put a " bionic " device stuff in on their " deaf " child to become a bionic kid to be able to hear. I feel it is NOT right to create a real livin' and normal deaf child to become a robot livin' creature. Yikes ! Hate to think of that. I feel soo sorry for the deaf child when their hearin' parents DON'T think of the deaf child's welfare. That deaf child is NOT a guinea pig!

Jill, shel, dd, tousi your thoughts?

Is it true that my child, Jackie's children, cloggy's, drew's dad's, and others are robots and guinea pigs?

Is it true that we do not care about our child's welfare?

Are Maria's statements representative of your views?

If you are supportive of cochlear implants for children as you claim and supportive of a parent's right to choose a cochlear implant for their child as you claim, then tell us if what Maria said is true?

 

[Maria]

Jill, shel, dd, tousi your thoughts?

Is it true that my child, Jackie's children, cloggy's, drew's dad's, and others are robots and guinea pigs?

Yeah, in my view as observant. Your view may be different than mine.

Is it true that we do not care about our child's welfare?

That's right. Think about in the future, there may be a " bionic " device - let's say it is soo much better than your child's currently CI - will you put THAT new one on your child instead of your child's currently CI ? I am talkin' about advanced technology -- way, way ahead than " todays " CI. Use your imagination for example with each new computer from Windows 98, and then Windows XP and NOW there's Windows Vista. Of course there's always the same PC, same shape except different design on the front of PC. The way I view it, I don't feel that the hearin' parents would THINK of the deaf child's welfare about gettin' sick or headaches or nauseau or what ever there is. It's about the deaf child's health that I am concerned about. How would YOU feel if one doctor carves up on a monkey's head while you watch doctor doin' it and to SEE, if somethin' in monkey's head will WORK ? To me, it is an experiment thing that I am against. It doesn't matter if, it is CI or somethin' else to make a deaf child to be able to HEAR. I am sure some animal lovers here will be I could say many things here for examples.

Are Maria's statements representative of your views?

That's MY view - the way I see it. Of course, I analyze it as well about how these " device " thing will harm a deaf child's welfare. Sorry if, you disagree with me here.

If you are supportive of cochlear implants for children as you claim and supportive of a parent's right to choose a cochlear implant for their child as you claim, then tell us if what Maria said is true?

No way will I support CI for children. CI caused complications. Ok, you can go to the hospital where there's a nursery room - use your imagination: Think of a doctor usin' a knife to carve up on a deaf child's head while this child don't know what's goin' on. Of course, doctor will give this deaf child some anthesia ( sp ? ) to numb the pain. This deaf child will probably cry when she/or he wakes up. Somethin' hurt inside ? or ___ . You fill in yourself. It takes away a deaf child's natural senses - maybe, she/or he confuses or maybe, she/or he gets sick, vomittin'. Think it is alright to do that ? I don't!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It still makes me mad too and it has been almost 20 years since I graduated high school.

People who dont have experiences in deaf ed or deaf studies really do not have the training nor expertise to work with deaf children nor how to meet their needs.

This woman needs to be slapped in the face for saying that CIs make deaf people normal. We are all normal WITH or WITHOUT CIS!!!!

This is seriously FUCKED UP.

Yes I have the same feeling as you.. .It me total when anyone suggest that CI make deaf people normal.

We are normal with or without CI or HA...

It look like that ingorant people didn't know that we can do anything like hearing people except hear.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I agree with u..it is like what my hearing coworker told me over the summer about what one of her friends told her. Her friend asked her what we, deaf people, are doing to improve ourselves. That kind of view and attitude is what Crystal is referring to..that CIs make all of us "normal" or solve our "problems". That attitude needs to be thrown in the trash.

AMEN!!!!

 

[deafdyke]

Rick, you just don't see...........it's yet another case about not seeing the forests for the trees.

Unlike you and Jill, I do know many ci parents and in numerous conversations with them over nearly 20 years I cannot think of anyone who thought their child would function normally with a ci. Further, I have never said that and I have stated in detail many times what we were told by ci surgeons and their implant teams. But why concern yourself with facts.

So where do you come up with the factual basis for your statement? Is it made up? Or are you merely parroting what you have heard someone else say some other time to someone else, etc. as you usually do?

I do not know too many parents of CI kids IRL. However I DO know MANY parents of special needs kids in general! This "healthy normal attitude" is VERY VERY common in the whole disabilty spectrum, from dhh kids to blind/low vision kids to wheelchair users. Granted the "healthy normalism" isn't blatent.....but I mean from "oral sucesses" who are encouraged to mostly be a part of the hearing world, to blind/low vision kids who are encouraged to use their residual vision to the max, and not concentrate on the "crutch" of Braille, it is THERE! Believe me...........I have lived it. And its' not something that existed now and is just in the past. I see it every day on my special needs kids listservs! Parents are still devastated emotionally by relatively mild disabilites in their kids (ie physical issues, but no mental issues) Many of them STILL have baggage about the trappings of disabilty, and think "oh if Wittle Smashlie doesn't need to use what I think of as special needs tools, everything is fine and dandy!"
How many of those parents have actively introduced their kids to ASL and Deaf culture? How many felt a secret relief that their kids wouldn't "need" to use "special" methods? How many of them have boasted of how well their kids are doing in the hearing world? Do you see what I'm getting at now? It's audism so inherent in the hearing world, that you don't even realize what's going on! It's just like white privilage basicly!
Oh, and while I don't think they are robots, I do think there's some merit in them being called gunia pigs. Especially if they are oral onlyized. End hearing results from CI are pretty much a crapshoot. Yes, some people do get pretty good hearing, but most get hearing that varies as to its qualities.

 

[shel90]

Jill, shel, dd, tousi your thoughts?

Is it true that my child, Jackie's children, cloggy's, drew's dad's, and others are robots and guinea pigs?

Is it true that we do not care about our child's welfare?

Are Maria's statements representative of your views?

If you are supportive of cochlear implants for children as you claim and supportive of a parent's right to choose a cochlear implant for their child as you claim, then tell us if what Maria said is true?

Not interested in that argument because it wont accomplish anything.

My only interest is that the attitude from the general public is that CIs make deaf people normal as if we arent normal to begin with along with the idea that ASL is not needed.

 

[Cheri]

Jill, shel, dd, tousi your thoughts?

You haven't asked for my opinion or thoughts, I supposed my opinion nor thoughts doesn't event count.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You haven't asked for my opinion or thoughts, I supposed my opinion nor thoughts doesn't event count.

Yeah, it could be that our opinion and thought in some CI threads doesn't count him. *strug*

My posts from other CI thread are being ignored... All what he interesting is Shel90's, Jillo's, deafdyke's & Tousi's opinion or thoughts... Oh well...

 

[jillio]

Not interested in that argument because it wont accomplish anything.

My only interest is that the attitude from the general public is that CIs make deaf people normal as if we arent normal to begin with along with the idea that ASL is not needed.

Agreed, it was just another attempt to inflame and take a reasonable discussion into the gutter. Best to ignore those tactics.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, it could be that our opinion and thought in some CI threads doesn't count him. *strug*

My posts from other CI thread are being ignored... All what he interesting is Shel90's, Jillo's, deafdyke's & Tousi's opinion or thoughts... Oh well...

He singled us out becasue he is once again trying to make the thread into a place where he can personally attack those he doesn't seem to care for. We are better off--all of us--ignoring his attempts to start personal arguments, and just continue to have a reasonsable and productive discussion as we have been doing.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

This is what I have a problem with, doctors encourage parents of deaf children not to wait on cochlear implants and that's why sparks often fly in the deaf community people like me for example. It seems even so that parents of deaf children don't have enough confidence to believe that their deaf children can have a quality of life without cochlear implant. Just because parents did their research on the deaf culture, that doesn't mean every child is gonna be alike.

briefly that one of the reasons I have such strong opinions against cochlear implants in children is the parents that doesn't have enough confidence, enough faith, enough trust. You may disagree with me, but it's the truth.

Cheri do you understand about windows of developing language in small children. This is why if a parent is going to implant their child they need to do it right away.
I just had a family visit my class. The mother was not sure if she wanted to implant her child. Part of the reason was because she had missinformation about the implant. They told her that her daughter would be in the hospital for 15 days. Generally in about 90% of cases the child eneters the hosiptal in the morning and leaves in the afternoon.
I told the mom that it doesn't matter what road she is going to take but that she needs to embrace whatever road she is taking. I also told if she was going to decide on the implant she needed to do it as soon as possible.
Maybe you do not understand but if a child is going to learn oral language through an implants it needs to be done right away.