Gun Expert Lott: Let Teachers Carry Arms, Ban Gun-Free Zones to Halt Mass Shootings

[Jiro]

We have always been told that guns needs to be kept locked up around children..ok?

So, going with that, it means that the teachers MUST lock up their guns in the classrooms since teachers are around children all day.

What good use is a locked up gun if a shooter comes barreling in a classroom armed with an assault rifle?

The logic of teachers bringing guns to school just does not make sense.

If a teacher carries it all day, it would interfere with teaching. We have to wear many hats and feeling the bulge of a gun definitely will be distracting because I would worry about it falling off or a student grabbing it.

I would like the other teachers in here to dispute my theories not those who are not teachers or never experienced teaching. Then, I would be happy to engage in a discussion with them.

just a minor correction - assault rifle is and has always been illegal. it cannot be sold over the counter to civilians. assault rifle is what military and SWAT use. assault rifle is a fully-automatic weapon.

the media commonly referred it as "assault weapon" or "assault rifle" or similar terms to describe the rifle that Adam Lanza used because it simply looks like a military weapon when in fact it isn't same as military weapon.

the civilian-version is typically a small caliber (mostly .223) than military-version (either 5.56mm or 7.62) and it's semi-automatic. a civilian-version is merely a "look-alike" of military-version... nothing more.

beside.... to purchase a civilian-version of a military weapon (same but not fully-automatic)... it's ridiculously expensive. it's about $4,000-$6,000+ just for a rifle alone. with accessories, ammo, and extra magazines.... that's easily around $8,000 - $10,000 in total. how many citizens can afford that?

that's why it baffles me as to why politicians and anti-gunners want to re-enact Clinton's Assault Weapon Ban when it's all factually wrong and since majority of shootings weren't caused by "assault weapons" - just handguns.

I LOL'ed all the time whenever people complain that these "assault weapons" can go thru bulletproof vest. uuuuummmmmm duh??????? so can my shotgun w/ a slug! or .45 Desert Eagle or Dirty Harry revolver. it's because officers are wearing a wrong type of vest if they're worried about being shot by a rifle. simple - wear a bulletproof vest with ceramic/steel plates like what our soldiers wear in Iraq/Afghanistan but no.... it's too heavy and bulky.

beside - how often do most of officers get shot by "assault weapons"? :roll:

 

[Jiro]

We have always been told that guns needs to be kept locked up around children..ok?

So, going with that, it means that the teachers MUST lock up their guns in the classrooms since teachers are around children all day.

What good use is a locked up gun if a shooter comes barreling in a classroom armed with an assault rifle?

The logic of teachers bringing guns to school just does not make sense.

If a teacher carries it all day, it would interfere with teaching. We have to wear many hats and feeling the bulge of a gun definitely will be distracting because I would worry about it falling off or a student grabbing it.

I would like the other teachers in here to dispute my theories not those who are not teachers or never experienced teaching. Then, I would be happy to engage in a discussion with them.

I believe the most effective and logical solutions are reinforced door, stronger lock, "panic room" closet, communication system between police and classroom, regular drills, and increased police patrols especially during rush hour (morning, lunch, and after school).

 

[Jiro]

N.J. schools, police work together on security following Connecticut shooting | NJ.com

“You can’t prevent tragedy,” Kearns said, “but God forbid we do face a tragedy like that, our goal is to be prepared as best we can to respond as effectively as we possibly can.”

Police walked through the school today, something children wouldn’t necessarily be unaccustomed to seeing since they do walk-throughs periodically, Kemp said.

At South Hunterdon, township police normally walked through the regional high school twice a day, Calabro said, but will be on-site more in the near future.

And students and staff have been told they can’t open the doors to a visitor trying to be “buzzed in,” even if they recognize the person.

It has been standard procedure at schools for some years to require visitors, including parents, to sign in at the main office and receive a visitor’s pass. That has been the case at South, and also to require photo ID of unknown visitors such as deliverymen.

That's also true in High Bridge. Visitors there already were signed in and also escorted by a staff member to “wherever they were going,” said High Bridge Schools’ superintendent and middle school Principal Joe Kennedy. As a result of the security review, nothing was changed at High Bridge, although borough police will likely drop in more often.

Kennedy said today, “We sent out a message to our parents on Sunday” to let them them know that administrators reviewed security procedures at the elementary and middle schools.

Some towns, like Summit, reassured parents they are prepared. Summit Police Chief Robert Weck sent a Nixle Alert Monday morning to residents advising that the department has an active Shooter Response Team (ASRT) that “actively trains in our school environment for the safety of our children and the school staff.” The team's most recent training session was held on Wednesday, Dec. 12, at one of the district’s elementary schools.

Like many police departments in the area, Summit also has DARE officers “who are routinely present at all five elementary schools as well as the Juvenile Detective who is present at the Summit High School and Lawton C. Johnson Summit Middle School throughout the year,” Weck wrote.

In Cranford, Superintendent Gayle M. Carrick said all principals met with staff members on Monday before the students arrived to review how to respond to questions about the shooting.

Carrick scheduled a 3:30 p.m. meeting with Cranford Police chief Eric Mason to review emergency procedures and how they related to incidents like the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

Watchung Hills Regional High School Superintendent Frances Stromsland posted a message on the district’s website that school safety and security measures have been in place ever since the 1999 shooting at Columbine.

She reviewed those security measures, which include security cameras that “monitor entrances, parking lots and common areas” and the requirement that all visitors to the school present photo identification.

“We have the emergency management plans in place, we work on them regularly,” Miceli said. Two years ago the Department of Education made school security drills mandatory and they are held once a month, but “We have been doing them before that,” he said.

The district works with the police department and receives feedback from the staff and police on the execution of the plan. “It’s not just a plan that’s on the shelf. It’s something that’s fluid” and can be tweaked as the district’s needs change, Miceli said. Professional development programs are offered to the staff and the district and police department have collaborated to make videos on responses to various crises. “It’s really helped us to focus on what we believe would be the best practices here,” Miceli said.

Frank Guenther, administrator of special and guidance services at Delaware Valley High School, assured parents today that the school has “cameras within various school locations that allow us to maintain a vigilant eye on our halls and points of building entrance and exits.”

He also said that, over the past year, Del Val installed “an advanced and upgraded monitoring system that helps us to keep track of who enters and exits the building. All school entrances are locked and no one enters the building without first announcing themselves and being buzzed in.”

School officials said that counselors would be available to students to discuss the shooting. At High Bridge, Kennedy said that at least one student did that. He said that teachers were keeping a particular eye on students and would contact the front office if any child seemed upset.

Otherwise, he said that the schools are “returning to normalcy, as much as possible.”

 

[Jiro]

Hunterdon Prosecutor: Language can save lives during school crises | NJ.com

How schools react when they are under attack, and the language officials use to communicate the situation with law enforcement, can literally make the difference between life and death, according to a man whose daughter was killed by a gunman at her Colorado high school in 2006.

About 150 school and law enforcement officials from Hunterdon County, state and federal agencies heard that message today, Dec. 4, at a day-long conference at Hunterdon Central High School.

John-Michael Keyes and his partner in the endeavor — Arvada, Colo., Sgt. A.J. DeAndrea — began promoting the need for standardized response protocols and uniform terminology across school districts after a gunman took seven Platte Canyon (Colo.) High School girls hostage and sexually assaulted them before killing one, 16-year-old Emily Keyes, and taking his own life.

DeAndrea led a SWAT team during the Columbine High School massacre in 1999 and devised the hostage rescue at Platte Canyon High School in 2006.

“Someone in your community is planning a school assault,” DeAndrea warned the group, "someone just upset enough, just crazy enough.”

Whether the person will follow through is unknown, but that it's being planned is certain, he said, “Take that to the bank.”

The problem, he said after the morning session, is to “find a middle ground” between the attitude of cops who see threats around every corner and teachers who say, “What threat? These are my kids.”

Effective communication between schools and first responders before and during a threat is key to resolving the crisis safely, according to Keyes, who has convinced hundreds of school districts in Colorado and nationally to adopt what he calls The Standard Response Protocol, which provides a model for language and procedures schools can use during hostage and other threat situations.

While DeAndrea gave more than 125 law enforcement agents an insider’s briefing on several school shootings — including those at Platte Canyon and Columbine high schools — Keyes provided about two dozen school officials with more details on the standard protocols.

To ensure school safety, Keyes said, schools should adopt a uniform vocabulary that leads to specific actions to be performed during an incident. Currently, there is a hodgepodge of terms used by different schools to describe similar events and actions. Some schools use colors (“Code Red, Code Blue”) or phrases like “Lockdown” to describe the similar events or actions to be taken. That can be confusing to school staff and students as well as to first responders who have to be familiar with various schemes throughout their coverage area.

The Standard Response Protocols include four phrases (Lockout, Lockdown, Evacuate and Shelter), each associated with a specific directive for action (“Secure The Perimeter,” “Locks, Lights. Out of Sight,” etc.) based on the location and nature of the threat.

Uniform communications would enable those involved to better understand the necessary response, status and nature of the event. For students, Keyes said, standard terminology clarifies expectations and actions. For school officials, it makes it easier to train and drill. For first responders, the common vocabulary and protocols result in predictability.

Prosecutor’s Office Sgt. Kevin Burd, who organized the conference, said that the next step is to get schools to adopt the standard response protocols and administrators to implement them,

Hunterdon Prosecutor Anthony Kearns III will meet with chief school administrators across the county later this month to pitch the idea, he said.

 

[Reba]

Hunterdon Prosecutor: Language can save lives during school crises | NJ.com

One time I showed up mid-day at a middle school to substitute interpret. When I arrived at the classroom, I was informed that their class was on "lockdown." I asked what that meant. Was it a school-wide drill, or did something happen? I didn't hear any alarms or see any activity. No, I was informed that "lockdown" meant that the kids were disruptive during the lunch period, so they had to spend the rest of the period in the classroom instead of the lunch room. Huh? That was called a "lockdown!"

I hope they've improved the system since then.

The other thing that bothered me was that in all the times that I interpreted there, I wasn't wearing an ID badge on a lanyard around my neck (I carried a visitor's pass in my bag) but no staff member challenged me while I walked up and down the halls, carrying my big black terp bag.

For myself, whenever I go to an assignment, I observe where all the exits are and the layout of the facility. This is for security and fire reasons. (I also check where the restrooms are but that's for personal reasons. )

 

[Jiro]

One time I showed up mid-day at a middle school to substitute interpret. When I arrived at the classroom, I was informed that their class was on "lockdown." I asked what that meant. Was it a school-wide drill, or did something happen? I didn't hear any alarms or see any activity. No, I was informed that "lockdown" meant that the kids were disruptive during the lunch period, so they had to spend the rest of the period in the classroom instead of the lunch room. Huh? That was called a "lockdown!"

I hope they've improved the system since then.

The other thing that bothered me was that in all the times that I interpreted there, I wasn't wearing an ID badge on a lanyard around my neck (I carried a visitor's pass in my bag) but no staff member challenged me while I walked up and down the halls, carrying my big black terp bag.

For myself, whenever I go to an assignment, I observe where all the exits are and the layout of the facility. This is for security and fire reasons. (I also check where the restrooms are but that's for personal reasons. )

ayi ayi ayi! I hope they improved since then...

I know for sure that my high school security is pretty strict - according to my friend. I remembered back in my old time, once in a while... high school grads can pop in anytime just to say hello to their former teachers. I did too but now my friend told me that nobody can do that anymore. all doors are locked and all visitors must be signed in and must carry ID badge. they have a couple of security guards now.

I guess it is nice and fortunate that my high school is located just right near police station and fire station.

 

[Jane B.]

One time I showed up mid-day at a middle school to substitute interpret. When I arrived at the classroom, I was informed that their class was on "lockdown." I asked what that meant. Was it a school-wide drill, or did something happen? I didn't hear any alarms or see any activity. No, I was informed that "lockdown" meant that the kids were disruptive during the lunch period, so they had to spend the rest of the period in the classroom instead of the lunch room. Huh? That was called a "lockdown!"

I hope they've improved the system since then.

The other thing that bothered me was that in all the times that I interpreted there, I wasn't wearing an ID badge on a lanyard around my neck (I carried a visitor's pass in my bag) but no staff member challenged me while I walked up and down the halls, carrying my big black terp bag.

For myself, whenever I go to an assignment, I observe where all the exits are and the layout of the facility. This is for security and fire reasons. (I also check where the restrooms are but that's for personal reasons. )

Just curious. What do you have to take besides yourself to a terp assignment?

 

[Tousi]

Just curious. What do you have to take besides yourself to a terp assignment?

Just a second pair of hands in case she gets weary.

 

[Frisky Feline]

My son told me that he did have a "short" drill in case if something that happens in school. All they need to turn the light off classroom and hide somewhere and stay there until cops come in. Interesting. THis morning i dropped my son and other kids which was too early. The doors are locked, so they have to push the door and buzz them so they can let kids in. sad! But i m glad he is prepared for it. I dont know about my girl. I will ask her about it.

 

[Reba]

Just curious. What do you have to take besides yourself to a terp assignment?

Since I'm there all day, I have my wallet, water bottle, Blackberry, tissues, comb, lip gloss, hand lotion, small umbrella, key chain, small flashlight, cough drops, mints, toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, note pad, pen, small book, eyeglass case, pill bottle, bandaids, scissors, jackknife, highlighters, hand sanitizer, eyeglass wipes, and hand wipes. Yes, I've used everyone of those items while on an assignment. In my Jeep, I also kept a blanket, pillow, books, Garmin, jacket for quick change to professional look, plug-in fan, window shades, rain jacket, water bottle, sunglasses, reading glasses, and tissues. That was for days when I didn't get to go home between day and night assignments. I could take naps in my Jeep.

 

[Reba]

You're wrong ! This tragedy could had been prevented if the shooter's mother did not have 6 guns in her house when she had son that all the warning signs
of being a troubled person. I can't the mother when to a bar and told total strange people she had guns in her house. The shooter tried to buy a gun and was not able to buy one. I wonder if the shooter had to buy the bullets or where they already in the house. Maybe people need to have a back ground checkup to see if they even own any guns before they're allowed to buy 200 bullets. That should be a red flag right there. So you think nothing should be done and people should let their kids be sitting ducks and have some mad person kill them in school?

Any person 21 years or older can buy ammunition of any quantity in a store or on line. If you order on-line, you have to send in a copy of your driver's license for verification. If you buy it in a store, you show your driver's license to verify your age. Buying 200 rounds at one time is not a red flag. TCS has bought up to 1,000 rounds at a time. Sometimes we just want to take advantage of sale prices. Attempting to buy any ammo, guns, or equipment that is designated for police or military use only would be a red flag if you can't prove you are authorized to possess it. Background checks aren't done on purchasers of ammo.

 

[Reba]

Attacks by shooters aren't the only problem.

This afternoon, TCS and I received this message on our home phone and email accounts:

"This is an emergency alert: The College has received a credible bomb threat at building 410. Take your personal belongings, including your car keys, and evacuate the building. Listen for and be prepared to follow further instructions. Do not come to campus at this time. Thank you, BLAINE LOCKLAIR."

A little later:

"This is an emergency alert: The College has received a credible bomb threat. Take your personal belongings, including your car keys, and evacuate the campus. Listen for and be prepared to follow further instructions. Thank you, Public Safety."

Just a few moments ago, we got this message:

"The Charleston County Sheriff’s Office Explosive Ordnance Disposal Unit rendered the suspicious item safe and a joint investigation between the College Department of Public Safety and Charleston County Sheriff’s Office is on-going. In order for Public Safety to complete their initial investigation, the Main Campus is closed to everyone until noon on Tuesday, December 18. Thank you, Public Safety."

I'm so glad that I take my classes on line.

From the local newspaper today:

Suspicious item found Monday in Trident Tech bomb threat rendered safe – The Post and Courier

 

[Foxrac]

11-year-old will face charges for bringing gun to Kearns school

KEARNS — An 11-year-old boy who brought a gun to a West Kearns Elementary School Monday is facing criminal charges after allegedly threatening a classmate.

Granite School District administrators said the sixth-grader packed the .22 caliber handgun, along with ammunition, in his backpack and brought it to class.

The boy told administrators he did it to protect himself in case a school shooting similar to the massacre in Newtown, Conn., happened in Utah. But classmate Isabelle Rios said that's not how he used the weapon.

"He pulled out a gun and he put it to my head — me and my friend — (and) said he was going to kills us," Isabelle said. "I told him I was going to tell, but he said, ‘If you tell, I'm going to kill you.'"

Isabelle said it happened during morning recess, but she didn't alert her teacher until around 3:00 in the afternoon.

Upon learning the information the teacher acted quickly, disarming the student in a matter of seconds, and took him to the school's office. Police officers were called and arrived within minutes.

"This teacher in particular put herself with this student and took him into physical custody to ensure that he was not able to use that weapon to harm anybody," said Ben Horsley, spokesman for the Granite School District.

The gun was found in the boy's backpack, Horsley said. There was ammunition there too, but the gun was not loaded when the teacher found it.

Family members of students remained at West Kearns Elementary throughout the evening as they were briefed about the situation.

"I'm taking my kids out of school. They ain't coming back here," said Mandee Doyle, whose children attend the school.

"Now that I'm thinking about it, it's kind of sad how easy it is to get in and out of school, and something needs to be done," said John Klaus, whose nieces and nephews attend the school.

Horsley said the school district will investigate and pursue criminal charges against the 11-year-old. The extent of what those charges might be won't be decided on until later this week.

11-year-old will face charges for bringing gun to Kearns school | ksl.com

 

[TXgolfer]

Since you think very differently from me, I really dont think you will understand my reasoning.

You seem like the type that wouldn't want to go down without a fight. I'm surprised.

 

[VacationGuy234]

Since I'm there all day, I have my wallet, water bottle, Blackberry, tissues, comb, lip gloss, hand lotion, small umbrella, key chain, small flashlight, cough drops, mints, toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, note pad, pen, small book, eyeglass case, pill bottle, bandaids, scissors, jackknife, highlighters, hand sanitizer, eyeglass wipes, and hand wipes. Yes, I've used everyone of those items while on an assignment. In my Jeep, I also kept a blanket, pillow, books, Garmin, jacket for quick change to professional look, plug-in fan, window shades, rain jacket, water bottle, sunglasses, reading glasses, and tissues. That was for days when I didn't get to go home between day and night assignments. I could take naps in my Jeep.

The go anywhere, do anything, granny terp! There when you need it, there when you don't!

 

[shel90]

You seem like the type that wouldn't want to go down without a fight. I'm surprised.

Just not in the mood.

 

[Jiro]

You seem like the type that wouldn't want to go down without a fight. I'm surprised.

perhaps you prefer to go down with a gun but many teachers like shel, doctors, and priests do not prefer to go down with a gun. some people just fight differently. ain't nothing wrong with that.

you seem to think unarmed teacher is less of a hero than armed teacher. I question your motive especially when you started with a in your post. it reeks of quibbling and trolling.

 

[Jiro]

Adam Lanza Shooting: Why Did He Target Sandy Hook Elementary? | TIME.com

The killing of 26 people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut has understandably shocked the nation, and details are just beginning to emerge about the shooter, Adam Lanza, a 20-year-old man who also murdered his mother. Events like these inevitably reopen debates about gun control, or more tenuously lead people to complain about American culture itself. Yet on the very same day, a 36-year-old Chinese man attacked 22 children with a knife at a primary school in China, suggesting that there is a critical factor with mass homicides that gets far less attention.

For all the disbelief and dismay, we actually know pretty well that most such events are committed by individuals with a particular set of characteristics. As my colleagues Mark Coulson, Jane Barnett and I noted in a 2011 article in the Journal of Police Crisis Negotiations, school shooters have generally been found to 1) have a history of antisocial-personality traits, 2) suffer from mental illnesses such as depression or psychosis and 3) tend to obsess about how others, whether other individuals or society at large, have wronged them. (These conclusions are similar to the findings of a 2002 U.S. Secret Service report on school shootings.) These individuals seethe with rage and hatred and despondency, until they decide to lash out at individuals or a society they believe has done them great wrong. Mental health, as well as our failure to address it as a society, is at the core of these events.

Not all mass homicide perpetrators target schools, but schools do seem to be an unusually common target. People wonder why angry men (and an occasional woman) so often target innocent children who have done them no wrong. In the case of Sandy Hook, although early reports suggested that Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, may have worked there, the school superintendent has since clarified that she was not a teacher or a substitute. In many other cases, there is no obvious connection. Watching the horror and great sadness that has descended over the nation in the past 24 hours, we have our answer. These perpetrators have lashed out against society in the most vicious way possible, inflicting the most pain that they could. That is the point of targeting a school.

Gun control may potentially remove one tool from the hands of potential perpetrators, but mass homicides occur in every part of the globe — Scotland, Norway, Germany, China. So while it may indeed be the right time to talk about gun control, as many are saying, it is also the right time to talk about mental health care in our country. Our country’s funding for mental-health services has only gotten worse since the 2008 recession. As the National Alliance on Mental Illness has been warning for some time, the existing level of funding is inadequate, so our nation’s ability to identify and care for the severely mentally ill has been hamstrung.

In my own clinical work, I’ve seen individuals I’ve identified as being potentially at risk for future criminal behavior because of their mental illness. Very often, there are simply few to no resources for them until they come to the attention of the criminal-justice system. Obviously, the vast majority of the chronically mentally ill won’t commit crimes, certainly not of the severity of the Sandy Hook shooting. But by leaving the mentally ill adrift to fend for themselves, we miss the opportunity to identify and treat some of these at-risk individuals before they escalate. Granted, neither gun control nor a well-funded mental-health system will prevent every mass homicide. But we leave ourselves — and more innocent children — vulnerable until we address both of those issues.

Secret Service's detailed report - http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf

 

[TXgolfer]

perhaps you prefer to go down with a gun but many teachers like shel, doctors, and priests do not prefer to go down with a gun. some people just fight differently. ain't nothing wrong with that.

you seem to think unarmed teacher is less of a hero than armed teacher. I question your motive especially when you started with a in your post. it reeks of quibbling and trolling.

You are wrong, my opinion is the exact same as Reba's....It should be up to the individual. Perfectly fine if Shel would chose not to carry. merely meant it was cool if she didn't want to explain her reasoning. Not sure why you have such difficulty understanding things.

 

[Jiro]

You are wrong, my opinion is the exact same as Reba's....It should be up to the individual. Perfectly fine if Shel would chose not to carry. merely meant it was cool if she didn't want to explain her reasoning. Not sure why you have such difficulty understanding things.

your another usual contradictions.

shel's reply was -

Since you think very differently from me, I really dont think you will understand my reasoning.

and your reply was

You seem like the type that wouldn't want to go down without a fight. I'm surprised.

then you say it should be up to individual and it's perfectly fine if shel chose not to carry.... and yet... you say you're surprised and you didn't think she would go down without a fight.