Gay marriage, Obama and the fierce urgency of now: Why did he do it this week?

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saywhatkid said:
So he lost the gay vote, plus steeled the resolve of the anti-gay marriage block? Really? Is the "gay patriot" writer really a gay person, or simply a Conservative pretending to be one?
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There are gay conservatives, ya know? Like Log Cabin Republicans, for example, among others.
 
If Republican Party change their party platform to support gay rights or make totally up to individual candidates and Mitt Romney to support all gay rights, including gay marriage so it will likely to more competitive to gay voters. However, he probably won't get any support from anti-gay rights, especially southern states and they will goes to 3rd party as alternative like Thurmond, Byrd and Wallace in past.

I think extreme conservatives and anti-gay rights, especially politicians from southern states and midwestern states should join Constitution Party because their original party fits them so perfectly so Republican Party will restore to original view (1854) to make them looks more moderate.

Most gay people that I know support progressive.
 
rolling7 said:
I like your way of thinking. Marriage came long before any government was formed. My thought is that marriage belongs to the religion orgainizations of the world, after all that is how it got started. However, America and most other countries have civil unions and/or partnerships. These protect the patrner's legal rights. So, I would like to see a seperate marriage which the government has no concern over and a civil union and/or partnership which the religion origainization have no concern over. People can have one or both or none.
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You are correct, the oldest recorded marriage contract was an exchange between two seperate Jewish families near Elephantine and Assuan. It was between one man and one woman. There were two seperate ceremonies, both of which were religious.
 
Kalima01 said:
Marriage doesn't belong to religion.
I mean if "religion" started with Christ then how could Mary & Joseph be "married" before their child was born?

Anywho moving on, I'm in total agreeance with Sares.

I believe that the Government (Australian and American) should let the people decide.
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Christianity is just one "religion". Marriage is religious by nature. Each and every world religion has their own marriage traditions. These traditions are ancient and pre-date governing bodies.
 
Steinhauer said:
Christianity is just one "religion". Marriage is religious by nature. Each and every world religion has their own marriage traditions. These traditions are ancient and pre-date governing bodies.
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She is just talk about present, not past.

It is uncommon for people to got married in court or anywhere aren't religious place.

Some atheists are married as well.
 
Single Mother Bristol Palin Tells Obama Same-Sex Marriage is Wrong Because Kids Need a Mom and Dad
Bristol Palin finally — finally — weighed in on President Obama's same-sex marriage stance and, guess what? She's against it.

Didn't see that coming, huh?

In a new blog post entitled "Hail to the Chiefs – Malia and Sasha Obama," Bristol takes issue with the influential role Obama's daughters supposedly played in helping him "evolve" his opinion on same-sex marriage.

"In this case, it would've been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that's not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage," she writes. "Or that – as great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids' worldview."

Says the unwed single mother of one whose baby daddy is the living embodiment of Goofus from Highlights.

Sadly, she goes on:
Sometimes dads should lead their family in the right ways of thinking. In this case, it would've been nice if the President would've been an actual leader and helped shape their thoughts instead of merely reflecting what many teenagers think after one too many episodes of Glee.
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OK, enough.

Go after the president, fine. Object to his worldview, no sweat. Use an antediluvian argument about an institution that has been constantly shaped and reshaped — even within Christianity itself — in order to excuse your blatant discrimination of taxpaying American citizens, that's your thing. But don't you dare speak ill of Glee.

That show is great.
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oh the hypocrisy... I don't think this has gotten even more comical than this.... especially coming from a person with a wedlock baby
 
USA TODAY/Gallup poll: 51% agree with Obama's gay marriage endorsement
More than half of Americans say they approve of President Obama's stance that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry legally, but 60% say that his shift in position will have no bearing on how they vote in the November election, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup poll.

Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama.
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looks like more than half of America is fine with it. I predict that this is certainly going to cost GOP an election and political power if GOP is not going to be a progressive party especially with its foul-up stance on immigration, gay issues, and women's rights.
 
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Poll Finds Republicans Must Evolve or Die on Gay Marriage
In the wake of Obama’s historic support for gay marriage and Mitt Romney’s Cranbrook bullying of a gay student, public opinion researcher and Bush’s 2004 pollster Jan van Lohuizen issued a warning to Republicans – change your stance on gay marriage or become irrelevant.

Citing poll numbers, van Lohuizen makes the case for why Republicans need to change their position on gay marriage and they need to do it yesterday. See, it’s not just Democrats and young people who support equal rights for gay couples anymore. Support among Republicans is on the rise.

It isn’t that Republican leaders have changed their mind or that it’s suddenly right in their opinion, but they must change their position because the polls are shifting in such a way that it will be impossible to win elections if they do not. The polls are shifting not just from a generational standpoint, but a rethinking of the issue across the board. Thus, Republicans must now change their stance on gay marriage.

The question is, how can they get the base on board? After all, Republicans have made quite a show of demonizing gay people as infidels, even blaming the gay community for their own failed marriages. High profile Republicans are on record repeatedly suggesting that gay men are child molesters. They have cited Jesus and the Bible as proof that gay is bad. Republicans have used their demonizing of the gay community to get out the vote. After so much conditioning, their religious base may actually believe that the soul of America depends upon their successful theft of rights from the gay community.
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Bush '04 pollster: Change in attitudes on gay marriage across the board - POLITICO.com
Former President George W. Bush's pollster for his 2004 re-election, Jan van Lohuizen, has put out a memo to Republican operatives suggesting a shift in the way the GOP discusses same-sex marriage, a piece flagged by Jonathan Martin.

It notes what recent same-sex marriage surveys have found, which is a change in public support "at an accelerated rate with no sign of slowing down."

It adds, "The increase in support is taking place among all partisan groups. While more Democrats support gay marriage than Republicans, support levels among Republicans are increasing over time. The same is true of age: younger people support same sex marriage more often than older people, but the trends show that all age groups are rethinking their position."

And it notes that people's attitudes have moved within the GOP on whether to provide "basic legal" protections to gay people, with a proposed shift in language about understanding rights.

The full memo is after the jump.
Memorandum

From: Jan R. van Lohuizen

Date: 05/11/12

Re: Same Sex Marriage

Background: in view of this week’s news on the same sex marriage issue, here is a summary of recent survey findings on same sex marriage:

Support for same sex marriage has been growing and in the last few years support has grown at an accelerated rate with no sign of slowing down. A review of public polling shows that up to 2009 support for gay marriage increased at a rate of 1% a year. Starting in 2010 the change in the level of support accelerated to 5% a year. The most recent public polling shows supporters of gay marriage outnumber opponents by a margin of roughly 10% (for instance: NBC / WSJ poll in February / March: support 49%, oppose 40%).
The increase in support is taking place among all partisan groups. While more Democrats support gay marriage than Republicans, support levels among Republicans are increasing over time. The same is true of age: younger people support same sex marriage more often than older people, but the trends show that all age groups are rethinking their position.
Polling conducted among Republicans show that majorities of Republicans and Republican leaning voters support extending basic legal protections to gays and lesbians. These include majority Republican support for:
Protecting gays and lesbians against being fired for reasons of sexual orientation
Protections against bullying and harassment
Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Right to visit partners in hospitals
Protecting partners against loss of home in case of severe medical emergencies or death
Legal protection in some form for gay couples whether it be same sex marriage or domestic partnership (only 29% of Republicans oppose legal recognition in any form).
Recommendation: A statement reflecting recent developments on this issue along the following lines:

“People who believe in equality under the law as a fundamental principle, as I do, will agree that this principle extends to gay and lesbian couples; gay and lesbian couples should not face discrimination and their relationship should be protected under the law. People who disagree on the fundamental nature of marriage can agree, at the same time, that gays and lesbians should receive essential rights and protections such as hospital visitation, adoption rights, and health and death benefits.

Other thoughts / Q&A:

Follow up to questions about affirmative action: “This is not about giving anyone extra protections or privileges, this is about making sure that everyone – regardless of sexual orientation – is provided the same protections against discrimination that you and I enjoy.”

Why public attitudes might be changing: “As more people have become aware of friends and family members who are gay, attitudes have begun to shift at an accelerated pace. This is not about a generational shift in attitudes, this is about people changing their thinking as they recognize their friends and family members who are gay or lesbian.”

Conservative fundamentals: “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone. This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government.
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Foxrac said:
She is just talk about present, not past.

It is uncommon for people to got married in court or anywhere aren't religious place.

Some atheists are married as well.
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Yes, lots of non religious people are married. That is because governing bodies began regulating religious rites of passage, marriage being the one they could profit the most from. After governing bodies regulated marriage, which is inherently religious, it became secular.

States have always regulated who, and who cannot, get married. Before governing bodies became involved, it was families who made that decision, with the blessing from the mosque, temple, church etc.

The pilgrims fled to the new world when King Henry the VIII decided he did not like what the chuirch had to say about marriage, and appointed himself head of the church and began oppressing the religious. He tried to redefine the principles of marriage too - much like Obama is trying to do.
 
Jiro said:
USA TODAY/Gallup poll: 51% agree with Obama's gay marriage endorsement


looks like more than half of America is fine with it. I predict that this is certainly going to cost GOP an election and political power if GOP is not going to be a progressive party especially with its foul-up stance on immigration, gay issues, and women's rights.
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Seriously, using the poll numbers for America! As you well know, polls can word questions to get the respond THEY want. To be real serious, in the next presidential election, put the situation on a NATIONAL BALLOT and let the results be the end of this matter. Scared what the results will be? Then start a new thread.
 
rolling7 said:
Seriously, using the poll numbers for America! As you well know, polls can word questions to get the respond THEY want. To be real serious, in the next presidential election, put the situation on a NATIONAL BALLOT and let the results be the end of this matter. Scared what the results will be? Then start a new thread.
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I think we both know who is really scared in here :lol:
 
Steinhauer said:
This thread isn't about polls or even the GOP, it is about why Obama flip flopped on his own gay marriage stance. :ty:

I am sure you bufoons can't discuss Obama's flip flopping without blaming Republicans.
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This thread is about gay marriage. Does it scare you? :lol:
 
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