Friends that smoke too much Weed

ambrosia said:
No, just no. There are hundreds of reasons why someone, someone young btw, would try drugs and alcohol and no not having a genetic predispostion to addiction is not one of them. For one thing having a genetic predisposition to addiction is not specific to one thing, someone with a n addictive personality can get addicted to anything. It doesn't even have to be drugs or alcohol, it can be gambling porn the internet, etc etc etc. They didn't even have the internet a hundred years ago, how are you going to inheret an addcition specific to the internet???:hmm:
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when a person is addicted to something, it's because he's addicted to a certain chemical.

so if he's addicted to porn/game/internet... it's because he's addicted to endorphin or dopamine or both that his brain produces as the result of it.

you are basically proving me right.

ambrosia said:
When yo're young you make poor choices okay. There is really truly such a thing as peer pressure. It exists. There is rebellion, some people had horrible childhoods and turn to them for escape. Some kids are just looking to party party party, can this behavior lead to addiction? How in the hell are the millions and millions of teenagers out there that start experimenting with drugs and alcohol all going to have the reason for experimenting?? What kind of sense does that make? None, it doesn't make any sense that the reason all those kids started experimenting because they have addictive personalities. I'm starting to feel like I landed on a different planet and o guys didn't even grow up, that you've been body snatched by aliens or something, how can you not remember being a kid?

God I had to come back and write some, I'm just so flabbergasted.
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hence..... "nature AND nurture" rather than "nature OR nurture" as explained in several sources in my previous post.

like I said several times - some people can experiment around and not get addicted to it. some people experiment around and do get addicted to a specific thing. why is that? genetic predisposition.

again - it's all about chemical. each person has a different genetic makeup that has different reaction toward a certain chemical. that's why some people get drunk from even just one beer and some can handle it like a sailor. obviously - when somebody can't handle an alcohol but can handle smoking - he is more likely to be addicted to smoking.

when you are genetically predisposed to something, it doesn't mean you'll be addicted to it. it only increases the chance of likelihood at any time and the difficulty of quitting it.

again - addiction is chemical. if your body responses favorably to a certain chemical, it's gonna want some more so it's entirely up to you for self-control..... hence "nature AND nurture".

ambrosia said:
So let's say a kid in high school his parents are going out of town. He knows some older kids and the get a keg for him, and he has a party and invites half the school. Are you going to tell me that every kid that says yes, and goes to that party and drinks beer does so because they have a genetic disposition to be addicted to alcohol?? Seriously?? You can't think of any other reason why those kids would yes? None??
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that's completely irrelevant. that's a peer pressure, not addiction.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Genetics does not make you choose a drug, it may enhance the affect of a drug, but it does not make you choose it. Your choice comes before any genetic reality. You are not choosing to use another drug because you, "KNOW" that drug will feel better, you're choosing it for other reasons. Those reasons could be because it is cool, cheap or your friends choice drug, but it is not because you were born to have that drug.

That's like walking though a buffet and never choosing anything you don't like, not gonna happen.
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I just found tons of contradictions in your post. and I've never said what you've claimed.
 
ambrosia said:
Are you kidding me? Have you read your own posts?
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yes and it's not even close to what I've said.

ie - what I've said in my Post #101 and what he said in Post #99 doesn't even come close.
 
ambrosia said:
Here's the thing, people, lots and lots of people like to point at weed as the starting point, and blame anything that happened afterwards on the weed, the "gateway". Here's the truth, the weed had nothing to do with these people stories end, they would have messed up their life and gone down that road, without the weed.
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Yea, that's true. Alcohol can be the starting point as well. It is usually weed, alcohol, or Ecasity that are the starting points. I could be leaving out other drugs as I cant recall them right now.
 
Grummer said:
Nah!, its not they 'escaping from painful thing? what? they're kids what's so painful is likely school work :lol:, , they're just after a good time, since they young and brain still strong (to withstand some 'damages'...but there's a limit of course...

its just became a 'hobby' for those late teenage to adulthood, and again like i said before, 'it's a big test' into the adult world...pot get so very serious or very frivilous, or a very fad thing...just like a 'first car' (or second) may be a sports car, or a mountain-going 4x4 (small or whatever), its never practical, kids/youg adults never wanted real practical things, AND...Most of them KNOW Very well they are going the stuck in the serious working-for-rest-of-their-lives adulthood...
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If that's all they live for is the next high then there are deeper problems. Kids can have deep rooted problems from their childhood. Why did Drew Barrymore become an addict so young (I think she was 13 years old). She had deep-seated problems from living with parents who didn't pay her enough attention, if my memory is correct.
 
ambrosia said:
Here's the thing, people, lots and lots of people like to point at weed as the starting point, and blame anything that happened afterwards on the weed, the "gateway". Here's the truth, the weed had nothing to do with these people stories end, they would have messed up their life and gone down that road, without the weed.
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yep - that is false. a "gateway" drug? LOL! it's just a silly silly silly thing that pharmaceutical companies and company-sponsored politicians invented to scare public into criminalizing marijuana because marijuana works so well with much less side effects than medications do.... which means it was hurting their profits.
 
shel90 said:
Then why the withdrawal symptoms when one tries to quit?
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Let me rephrase to be more clear: When I say they are not genetically addicted, I mean there is no genetic capacity for choosing that drug. There is no bodily need to choose that drug. The drug is chosen due to other factors which are not biological.

You are correct about the withdrawal process, but that is not what I was discussing.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Let me rephrase to be more clear: When I say they are not genetically addicted, I mean there is no genetic capacity for choosing that drug. There is no bodily need to choose that drug. The drug is chosen due to other factors which are not biological.

You are correct about the withdrawal process, but that is not what I was discussing.
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Ok..I guess I am trying to keep track of what everyone is saying and it became confusing after a long day out in the sun.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Let me rephrase to be more clear: When I say they are not genetically addicted, I mean there is no genetic capacity for choosing that drug. There is no bodily need to choose that drug. The drug is chosen due to other factors which are not biological.

You are correct about the withdrawal process, but that is not what I was discussing.
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the most addicting drug? euphoria.

actually it's not a drug but it's what a person seeks to achieve that state. a person choses something that his body reacts favorably to. that's why some people get addicted to alcohol and other people get addicted to marijuana... and other gets addicted to porn. it's biological.
 
Jiro, and VG I think we are having massive communication problems.

There is clearly a genetic influence on whether or not someone becomes addicted to something. I don't think there is an argument there. Speaking for myself, Jiro, I initially thought you started in on this because you were backing up saywhatkids claim that the reason anyone would try drugs is because they have genetic predisposition to drugs. That if if they didn't even have that genentic factor, well they could just withstand peer pressure and just say no. No those weren't his exact words, but that's the message, the theory.

Now I'm thinking we've got wires crossed because you do realize there is a peer pressure aspect to even trying things in the first place.

Do we agree that there are many reasons why some would first try different drugs and alcohol, and yes they'd probably try a few. But if they have that genetic disposition they would have an increased chance of becoming addicted to it? If they never tried it they would never become addicted to it?

I can agree, that it is possible that someone might be more likely to become addicted to a certain chemical over another. But I don't think that is neccessarily required. I think with enough exposure to a drug anyone could become addicted to it. Now why that person would be using it to that degree is another issue. But I believe this because some drugs are more addictive than other drugs, to anyone's brains/chemistry, regardless of genetic make up.
 
The argument was never about addiction. It's was about the idea that people chose drugs based on their genetic makeup, e.g. they are programmed to choose certain drugs. The basis was that someone who chooses weed will eventually choose Heroin because of genetics.

I disagree.
 
ambrosia said:
Jiro, and VG I think we are having massive communication problems.

There is clearly a genetic influence on whether or not someone becomes addicted to something. I don't think there is an argument there. Speaking for myself, Jiro, I initially thought you started in on this because you were backing up saywhatkids claim that the reason anyone would try drugs is because they have genetic predisposition to drugs. That if if they didn't even have that genentic factor, well they could just withstand peer pressure and just say no. No those weren't his exact words, but that's the message, the theory.

Now I'm thinking we've got wires crossed because you do realize there is a peer pressure aspect to even trying things in the first place.

Do we agree that there are many reasons why some would first try different drugs and alcohol, and yes they'd probably try a few. But if they have that genetic disposition they would have an increased chance of becoming addicted to it? If they never tried it they would never become addicted to it?
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yes - everybody's likelihood of addiction to a certain thing varies depending on their genetic predisposition assuming that everybody is exposed to everything on the table - alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, etc.

if they were never exposed to it, then they wouldn't get addicted to it but the point still remains that if they were ever exposed to it, their likelihood to be addicted to it is higher than others especially if they are genetically predisposed to it. it's really entirely up to their self-control.... hence nature and nurture.

ambrosia said:
I can agree, that it is possible that someone might be more likely to become addicted to a certain chemical over another. But I don't think that is neccessarily required. I think with enough exposure to a drug anyone could become addicted to it. Now why that person would be using it to that degree is another issue. But I believe this because some drugs are more addictive than other drugs, to anyone's brains/chemistry, regardless of genetic make up.
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well - for that to happen... one would have to grow up with it since toddler. or a drug would most likely be artificially made to be powerful enough to alter a person's wiring... like crystal meth.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
The argument was never about addiction. It's was about the idea that people chose drugs based on their genetic makeup, e.g. they are programmed to choose certain drugs.
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correction - their bodies reacts favorably to a certain chemical. if a drug has that same chemical, then that person will stick with it if he wants more of it in order to achieve a state of euphoria. that's why some people chose a drug (cocaine/marijuana/etc.) over alcohol.

some people have weak self-control and that would lead to addiction.

VacationGuy234 said:
The basis was that someone who chooses weed will eventually choose Heroin because of genetics.
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what? who said that?

VacationGuy234 said:
I disagree.
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sorry if you disagree with the fact.
 
saywhatkid said:
No point in continuing this with you, since my opinions are "rubbish" and "asinine."

BTW, I "dabbled" in the world of drugs for longer than you have been alive. Watched friends die, incarcerated, etc. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Sounds to me that you an Ambrosia have your own different opinions. At this point it seems the only thing to do is to respect that. Thanks for your input though.
 
Jiro said:
correction - their bodies reacts favorably to a certain chemical. if a drug has that same chemical, then that person will stick with it if he wants more of it in order to achieve a state of euphoria. that's why some people chose a drug (cocaine/marijuana/etc.) over alcohol.

some people have weak self-control and that would lead to addiction.


what? who said that?


sorry if you disagree with the fact.
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Look back through the thread it will good practice for you.
 
Jiro said:
yes - everybody's likelihood of addiction to a certain thing varies depending on their genetic predisposition assuming that everybody is exposed to everything on the table - alcohol, cocaine, marijuana, etc.

if they were never exposed to it, then they wouldn't get addicted to it but the point still remains that if they were ever exposed to it, their likelihood to be addicted to it is higher than others especially if they are genetically predisposed to it. it's really entirely up to their self-control.... hence nature and nurture.


well - for that to happen... one would have to grow up with it since toddler. or a drug would most likely be artificially made to be powerful enough to alter a person's wiring... like crystal meth.
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People become addicted to caffeine and i wouldn't call that a powerful drug.
 
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