FL. Loses Appeal in Terri Schiavo Case

[Reba]

I just hope that when this is all over, the rest of us learn from Terri's mistake, and state our wishes explicitedly and in writing.

I'm doing it. Have you done it?

Yes, we use a combined "Health Care Power of Attorney & Living Will" which includes a designation of health care agent and a statement of desires, special provisions and limitations. It has specific statements for nutrition and hydration. It is signed in the presence of witnesses, and notarized.

 

[Cheri]

*Sigh*

I read on AOL, Here's the quote

A Florida state judge declined to hear Gov. Jeb Bush's petition to take custody of Terri Schiavo. Bush is appealing the decision.

Grrr at The State of Florida!

 

[Angel]

They are the ones who refuse to accept the court's rulings to such a degree that Terri has been reduced to nothing more than a political football.

I have a question to ask you, have you personally went to see Terri yourself? and are you a doctor? how the heck do you know she won't get better later on in the future?....

Another thing, the only reason the parents refused to accept the court's ruling cause not even one judge went up to see Terri in person, so, it may be so darn easy for the judge to just rule it without seeing Terri with their own eyes....

:::sigh:::

 

[Cheri]

You know I was talking to my friend on line and she told me something I never knew about, that No one knows what really happened the night that Terri collapsed. No one but Michael, Terri and God. Some people have asked him to take a polygraph test and he refused. Why did he refused? What is he trying to hide? If he is so innocent then he shouldn't be afraid to take a test And I was also told that one of Terri's best friend said that Michael was very controling of Terri while they were together and Michael went back with an ex which the woman he is living with now with two children. WTF! Is that true?

 

[net0man]

The parent are not selfish, Are you a parent yourself? I know Oceanbreeze isn't, It's easy for her to judge the parent when she isn't a parent herself. If you aren't either what do you know? I apology for being harsh but I am sick and tired of people easy judge the parent when they aren't a parent themselves to understand that those parent are only loving/caring for their daughter is that a crime?

well, i am about to become a father within two weeks. i understand that most parents value their children and do not want see them die.

in this case, i think terri's parents are selfish for not thinking of others like terri and michael. they r not willing to let terri go and let her rest in peace after years in vegetation state, "declared brain dead". terri and michael have suffered enough.

me too am sick and tired about many individuals using religious or misleading facts to dominate the public and media.

 

[Banjo]

You know I was talking to my friend on line and she told me something I never knew about, that No one knows what really happened the night that Terri collapsed. No one but Michael, Terri and God. Some people have asked him to take a polygraph test and he refused. Why did he refused? What is he trying to hide? If he is so innocent then he shouldn't be afraid to take a test And I was also told that one of Terri's best friend said that Michael was very controling of Terri while they were together and Michael went back with an ex which the woman he is living with now with two children. WTF! Is that true?

The reason why many people don't take polygraph tests because they don't help at all. In fact, the courts won't even accept them as evidences because people can fool them.

So, there's really no point in taking it.

 

[Toonces]

No doubt you are all sick and tired of hearing about this, but Schindlers had once again filed another appeal, to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta, Georgia (for the second time). Right now the court is having an emergency meeting.

To see the parents who loved their daughter running from one court to another and back, again and again, in dwindling hopes of saving Terri....it is terribly sad. Especially the mother who is grieving right now....


Source: Florida court to hold 'emergency hearing'

 

[netrox]

To cut off feeding to a person in PVS is not necessarily cruel or painful as some would say. I am sure Terri can feel some pain to some extent but hardly the same as we sense and most people who are terminally ill don't experience much pain even with dehydration. Many studies show that they often die peacefully with minimal pain when they are stopped with feeding.

My own personal experiences with beloved ones on their deathbed show that they were not in great pain - there was some discomfort and pain along the journey but to say that it's abuse and cruel is totally without merit. Dying often involves a lot of pain - most die with a lot of pain - heart attacks are extremely painful. Traumas are extremely painful. Cancer patients experience a lot of pain as well but over time they lose sensitivity to pain.

All the allegations against Michael - you have to understand that Michael has already determined that Terri as a person is gone and he moved on. He works in medicine and he knows more than most of you do. It is NOT illegal to have children outside of marriage or to have a girlfriend while married. No law in Florida prohibits that.

If you want your spouse to be on your side without dating or meeting someone while you're in PVS with no hope of recovery for 15 years, I think you're selfish. I wouldn't do that on my spouse if I have no chance of recovering from brain damage. I believe every human being deserves to have a fulfilling life. Micheal is still by her and still takes care of her and is at her deathbed. That's all that matters. So cut it out about his personal life.

Also, Florida law (and so are other states) say that spouses ALWAYS make decisions for their spouses who are incompetent and parents have NO legal rights once their children are 18 years old. I agree with their ruling. Even if the court had to remove Michael from guardianship, the court would automatically become a guardian and would remove the feeding support anyway.

Do you want your parents to take over and make decisions for you if you made wishes clear to your own spouse and your parents don't respect that? I sure hell don't want my parents to make decisions for me!

Contrary to what media says, it wasn't only Michael that said that Terri doesn't want to live like that, there were MULTIPLE WITNESSES that said Terri made that wish as well.

-jeff

 

[netrox]

Another fact to consider - the reason she never had MRI scan is very simple - she has the implant (as part of experiment hoping to stimulate growth of tissues in her damaged tissues - it failed) and it is NOT compatible with MRI.

A glance at CAT scan shows that her brain damage is beyond repair and the court has agreed - you just can't repair DEAD tissues. Once the cells are dead, they're dead FOREVER!!!!

That's why I am so annoyed when I read that we sould use stem cell research for Alzihiermers' disease - that would NOT work at all - once memory cells are gone, they're gone FOREVER. IRREVERSIBLE. You can put new memory cells but they would be entirely new and it won't remember the old past at all. It will only LEARN NEW experiences.

-jeff

 

[Angel]

To cut off feeding to a person in PVS is not necessarily cruel or painful as some would say.

It's not???...So, it's ok for someone in a death row to die quickly, it's ok for a pet to put to sleep quickly, but it's not cruel or painful to slowly starve someone to death for days? or weeks?....I see...

 

[netrox]

"but it's not cruel or painful to have someone put to death for days? or weeks?...."

Painful, maybe but cruel? No. Would you consider yourself cruel if your husband wants you to stop feeding him?

-jeff

 

[Cheri]

To cut off feeding to a person in PVS is not necessarily cruel or painful as some would say. I am sure Terri can feel some pain to some extent but hardly the same as we sense and most people who are terminally ill don't experience much pain even with dehydration. Many studies show that they often die peacefully with minimal pain when they are stopped with feeding.

Die peacefully? I don't believe you Jeff, They will still feel pains when someone is straving. It's not painless. That is BS. Sorry.

All the allegations against Michael - you have to understand that Michael has already determined that Terri as a person is gone and he moved on. He works in medicine and he knows more than most of you do. It is NOT illegal to have children outside of marriage or to have a girlfriend while married. No law in Florida prohibits that.

Terri was not gone, She was not dead, The marriage vows are for better and for worse, in sickness and in health if people cannot follow their vows then they shouldn't gotten married to begin with. Michael found someone two years before 1995 after he moved in with a woman.. So that wasn't that too long. That is two years after Terri collapsed.

If you want your spouse to be on your side without dating or meeting someone while you're in PVS with no hope of recovery for 15 years, I think you're selfish. I wouldn't do that on my spouse if I have no chance of recovering from brain damage. I believe every human being deserves to have a fulfilling life. Micheal is still by her and still takes care of her and is at her deathbed. That's all that matters. So cut it out about his personal life.

You don't know anything about being selfish! If a husband dating someone behind his wife's back, Then I guess sex is more important than caring and loving and supporting your sickness wife, Then the husband is selfish one. Who said life was easy? You married someone you stuck with it, unless there abustive in marriage or cheating then they have the right to divorce.

Also, Florida law (and so are other states) say that spouses ALWAYS make decisions for their spouses who are incompetent and parents have NO legal rights once their children are 18 years old. I agree with their ruling. Even if the court had to remove Michael from guardianship, the court would automatically become a guardian and would remove the feeding support anyway.

Well, It's kinda a stupid law because it's like showing everyone that it's ok for a husbands to cheat and kill their wives. Maybe we all should do that cheat on our husbands and then kill them to get away with a crime. :roll:

Do you want your parents to take over and make decisions for you if you made wishes clear to your own spouse and your parents don't respect that? I sure hell don't want my parents to make decisions for me!

Let me repeat that to you for the third time maybe a thousand times now, There was no written will from Terri, If you want to believe a 3rd party go ahead. I believe in proof of evidences, which that is a living will. I don't believe no cheating husband's oral statement.

Contrary to what media says, it wasn't only Michael that said that Terri doesn't want to live like that, there were MULTIPLE WITNESSES that said Terri made that wish as well.

What wish? There was no written will, Believe what you want Jeff. You fall flat on your fact for believing in something there was no proof however.

 

[Angel]

"but it's not cruel or painful to have someone put to death for days? or weeks?...."

Painful, maybe but cruel? No. Would you consider yourself cruel if your husband wants you to stop feeding him?

-jeff

Wait a minute, you're saying that Terri knows that she will slowly starve herself to death?....hmmm...I don't think anyone wants to go thru this, I know I don't and if you do, you must be one brave dude, and to me, starving someone to death is murder period!!!...

If my husband said he wants me to stop feeding him, then I would say you are out of your freaking mind!! if he wants to die than being in the same condition as Terri's then I will have a doctor to put him to death quickly....I'm not going to stand by his bedside and slowly watch him die by starving himself....Oh pleaseee :roll:

 

[Nancy]

Die peacefully? I don't believe you Jeff, They will still feel pains when someone is straving. It's not painless. That is BS. Sorry.



Terri was not gone, She was not dead, The marriage vows are for better and for worse, in sickness and in health if people cannot follow their vows then they shouldn't gotten married to begin with. Michael found someone two years before 1995 after he moved in with a woman.. So that wasn't that too long. That is two years after Terri collapsed.



You don't know anything about being selfish! If a husband dating someone behind his wife's back, Then I guess sex is more important than caring and loving and supporting your sickness wife, Then the husband is selfish one. Who said life was easy? You married someone you stuck with it, unless there abustive in marriage or cheating then they have the right to divorce.



Well, It's kinda a stupid law because it's like showing everyone that it's ok for a husbands to cheat and kill their wives. Maybe we all should do that cheat on our husbands and then kill them to get away with a crime. :roll:



Let me repeat that to you for the third time maybe a thousand times now, There was no written will from Terri, If you want to believe a 3rd party go ahead. I believe in proof of evidences, which that is a living will. I don't believe no cheating husband's oral statement.



What wish? There was no written will, Believe what you want Jeff. You fall flat on your fact for believing in something there was no proof however.

 

[Angel]

Die peacefully? I don't believe you Jeff, They will still feel pains when someone is straving. It's not painless. That is BS. Sorry.



Terri was not gone, She was not dead, The marriage vows are for better and for worse, in sickness and in health if people cannot follow their vows then they shouldn't gotten married to begin with. Michael found someone two years before 1995 after he moved in with a woman.. So that wasn't that too long. That is two years after Terri collapsed.



You don't know anything about being selfish! If a husband dating someone behind his wife's back, Then I guess sex is more important than caring and loving and supporting your sickness wife, Then the husband is selfish one. Who said life was easy? You married someone you stuck with it, unless there abustive in marriage or cheating then they have the right to divorce.



Well, It's kinda a stupid law because it's like showing everyone that it's ok for a husbands to cheat and kill their wives. Maybe we all should do that cheat on our husbands and then kill them to get away with a crime. :roll:



Let me repeat that to you for the third time maybe a thousand times now, There was no written will from Terri, If you want to believe a 3rd party go ahead. I believe in proof of evidences, which that is a living will. I don't believe no cheating husband's oral statement.



What wish? There was no written will, Believe what you want Jeff. You fall flat on your fact for believing in something there was no proof however.

Whoa Cheri, Well said there girl...LOL

 

[netrox]

Die peacefully? I don't believe you Jeff, They will still feel pains when someone is straving. It's not painless. That is BS. Sorry.

Most deaths come with pain but when they're on verge of dying, most don't feel pain. Have you personally been with beloved ones on their deathbed? I am sure you haven't. I have a few times.

Terri was not gone, She was not dead, The marriage vows are for better and for worse, in sickness and in health if people cannot follow their vows then they shouldn't gotten married to begin with. Michael found someone two years before 1995 after he moved in with a woman.. So that wasn't that too long. That is two years after Terri collapsed.

First about marriages, their marriage is none of your business. I have no business to dictate how their marriage should be structured. I have no business to tell wives or husbands what they should do or not do. So many marriages end because they have unrealistic expectations of their marriages.

If after one year and there's no improvement, the chance of recovery becomes extremely slim. There are reports of miraculous recoveries but they're EXCEPTIONS. I am sure that's when Michael realizes he can't help her anymore after failed therapies.

You don't know anything about being selfish! If a husband dating someone behind his wife's back, Then I guess sex is more important than caring and loving and supporting your sickness wife, Then the husband is selfish one. Who said life was easy? You married someone you stuck with it, unless there abustive in marriage or cheating then they have the right to divorce.

I guess I am more compassionate and more understanding of human nature than you do. Her husband is STILL by Terri and he is still caring for her. I can see that he knows he will never have Terri back ever. He has a supportive girlfriend and he has two children - so what? Terri will NEVER have children EVER! Doesn't Micheal deserve to have children?

Well, It's kinda a stupid law because it's like showing everyone that it's ok for a husbands to cheat and kill their wives. Maybe we all should do that cheat on our husbands and then kill them to get away with a crime. :roll:

First of all, no law says that sex cannot be done outside of marriage. Nada. If married couples want to swing, they can. There's nothing we can do. It's their choice. If you think it's wrong, then don't do it. I have always tell people that if their spouses are cheating, don't just divorce - work on it. Some human beings are very sexual. Work on it. Think of something. But if all fails, divorce's the only option.

The law is NOT stupid. I guess you want your parents to make decisions for you all the time no matter how old you are. Once you marry your spouse, you have to expect your spouse to make decisions for you if you're incompetent, not your parents. That's an AUTOMATIC right. Don't like it? Make it in writing that you're always a baby needing your mommy's guardianship but I am sure your spouse wouldn't want to marry you - it shows lack of trust and codependency.

Let me repeat that to you for the third time maybe a thousand times now, There was no written will from Terri, If you want to believe a 3rd party go ahead. I believe in proof of evidences, which that is a living will. I don't believe no cheating husband's oral statement.

We ALL know that there was no written will but we ALWAYS consider people's statements when a written will is absent. Courts have ALWAYS favored stopping nutrition in cases like Terri's. It has ALWAYS been like that. If Micheal loses his guardianship, the court would become a guardian (it won't give it to parents right away) and would do the same thing. It's pointless. It doesn't matter.

-jeff

 

[Toonces]

there were MULTIPLE WITNESSES that said Terri made that wish as well.

Actually, just a very few. Michael's brother and sister-in-law, I believe. But they were not there on the evening Terri and Michael were watching TV (That's when Michael claimed Terri made an offhand remark aobut not wanting to be kept alive on the machines.) I don't know what Michael's brother and sister-in-law claimed Terri told them, but I suspect they are just sticking up for Michael, that is all.

BTW, I agree with what Cheri said.

 

[Angel]

Actually, just a very few. Michael's brother and sister-in-law, I believe. But they were not there on the evening Terri and Michael were watching TV (That's when Michael claimed Terri made an offhand remark aobut not wanting to be kept alive on the machines.) I don't know what Michael's brother and sister-in-law claimed Terri told them, but I suspect they are just sticking up for Michael, that is all.

BTW, I agree with what Cheri said.

That is correct, he said he was alone with Terri that evening when she said that, so it does look like family side with him cause people keep calling him a murderer which he is one!... :/

 

[Cheri]

Most deaths come with pain but when they're on verge of dying, most don't feel pain. Have you personally been with beloved ones on their deathbed? I am sure you haven't. I have a few times.

Starving is like a body crying for food and water of course she will feel the pains and the dryness in her body, her mouth, her inside body organs are slowly shutting down and You call that painless?

First about marriages, their marriage is none of your business. I have no business to dictate how their marriage should be structured. I have no business to tell wives or husbands what they should do or not do. So many marriages end because they have unrealistic expectations of their marriages.

It's none of my business? Well He is looking bad in the eyes of America. Who is going to respect a cheating, self-center husband? Maybe you do of course your'e a guy.

If after one year and there's no improvement, the chance of recovery becomes extremely slim. There are reports of miraculous recoveries but they're EXCEPTIONS. I am sure that's when Michael realizes he can't help her anymore after failed therapies.

One year is all that takes, for someone to give up? Wow that a lot of patience a person can be, NOT. What therapies did Michael done for Terri? All I know that he washes her face, brushes her teeth, Bath her. Is that really hard therapies? I cannot help it, You made me laugh right there.

I guess I am more compassionate and more understanding of human nature than you do. Her husband is STILL by Terri and he is still caring for her. I can see that he knows he will never have Terri back ever. He has a supportive girlfriend and he has two children - so what? Terri will NEVER have children EVER! Doesn't Micheal deserve to have children?

He gave up on her in two years, their marriage, And you think he cares about her? Ha! He wanted her dead twice. First time he tried it in 2000 then again now. And with children I have no problem with him having a life after Terri is gone meaning 6 feet under the ground. Not during she alive and still married to her. Is sex everything with men lately?

First of all, no law says that sex cannot be done outside of marriage. Nada. If married couples want to swing, they can. There's nothing we can do. It's their choice. If you think it's wrong, then don't do it. I have always tell people that if their spouses are cheating, don't just divorce - work on it. Some human beings are very sexual. Work on it. Think of something. But if all fails, divorce's the only option.

What does swinging have to do with Terri and Michael to begin with? You're right there is no laws based on having sex while being married to another woman, But it makes a husband a cheater, and unfaithful.

The law is NOT stupid. I guess you want your parents to make decisions for you all the time no matter how old you are. Once you marry your spouse, you have to expect your spouse to make decisions for you if you're incompetent, not your parents. That's an AUTOMATIC right. Don't like it? Make it in writing that you're always a baby needing your mommy's guardianship but I am sure your spouse wouldn't want to marry you - it shows lack of trust and codependency.

You have not understand my last post, Where did I say that Parent have the call on this? Oral statement is nothing compares to living will. Anyone can lie and say "Oh she told me she didn't want to live if she was going through that". Living will is the only proof of evidence that this person doesn't want to live through this. Nobody wants to be starve to death. If there was another way to end the life of the person who cannot live their life like everyone else. I am fine with it. But, starving is not the answer.


Bottom line is Jeff, You can say whatever you want, But people need a living will, that the only way problems would not be so conflicts, and the court wouldn't be in your business.

 

[Toonces]

Just in: The 11th U.S. Circuit Court in Atlanta ruled this evening against re-inserting the feeding tube. :/

I can hear you guys rolling your eyes and saying "Why am I not surprised?"