Feds: Most States Failing To Meet Special Ed Obligations

[Foxrac]

I KNOW you're familiar with ASD. But a seperate oral track= a graded componet. Like Utah Schools for the Deaf and Blind has a graded actual TRACK, that includes grades for oral kids....but AIDB's oral program is limited to preschool and kindergarten.

That's incorrect, oral education is available from K to 12.

It is REQUIRED by federal and state law - when parents request oral education at deaf school so they have to comply and accommodate their needs. That is usually done in separated classes, not separated departments.

 

[deafdyke]

She was in mainstream school for rest of her childhood and never went to deaf school.

You and I were former student at deaf school but she disputed both of us.

No, I'm not disputing you. I am not saying ALL Deaf Schools are amazing, and hearing schools automaticly suck.
I am aware of the issues that a lot of the deaf schools have..... Nevertheless, there are some pretty impressive stories coming out of some Deaf Schools.... It doesn't mean that all deaf schools are good, or couldn't do with some reform. However, even hearing schools are in the throes of needing to be reformed and upgraded.
I realize you and Botti may have attended not so good deaf schools.... Botti attended those schools back when almost all deaf schools were really bad. Did you know that back then they thought that dhh kids weren't exactly mentally capable, and so they watered down the curriclum big time!
I would bet with a few tweaks you would have found education at deaf school to be amazing. Two of my friends teach at deaf schools. They teach the same things that hearing schools teach...They just do it in ASL.

 

[deafdyke]

That's incorrect, oral education is available from K to 12.

It is REQUIRED by federal and state law - when parents request oral education at deaf school so they have to comply and accommodate their needs. That is usually done in separated classes, not separated departments.

That is not what it says on the AIDB site. AIDB only offers a preschool and a kindergarten, not a full fledged K-12 program.

 

[Foxrac]

Nevertheless, there ARE crappy mainstream schools....inner city, very rural (Appalachia, Indian reservations etc) Not all hearing schools are quality.
And? Most dhh kids were mainstreamed and are oral.....Only a small percentage attend Deaf Schools. So by your argument those dhh students should automaticly not be in remedial classes since mainstream schools are supposed to be so good.

Most inner city schools in Birmingham City School satisfied Alabama accountability requirement - it means they are not failing and we have many black students enroll at university that graduated from inner city school. The school is not issue but it is depending on teachers, also there are many good teachers in inner city school but they have to deal with depressed, hungry kids that government won't help them enough, even they bought food to feed the poor students.

The school in Indian reservation don't have accountability law so it is complicated, also federal government is responsible to take care of problem.

I came from high school in Appalachian area and their education is good, not perfect.

No schools are perfect, period.

 

[Foxrac]

No, I'm not disputing you. I am not saying ALL Deaf Schools are amazing, and hearing schools automaticly suck.
I am aware of the issues that a lot of the deaf schools have..... Nevertheless, there are some pretty impressive stories coming out of some Deaf Schools.... It doesn't mean that all deaf schools are good, or couldn't do with some reform. However, even hearing schools are in the throes of needing to be reformed and upgraded.
I realize you and Botti may have attended not so good deaf schools.... Botti attended those schools back when almost all deaf schools were really bad. Did you know that back then they thought that dhh kids weren't exactly mentally capable, and so they watered down the curriclum big time!
I would bet with a few tweaks you would have found education at deaf school to be amazing. Two of my friends teach at deaf schools. They teach the same things that hearing schools teach...They just do it in ASL.

At ASD, the class of 2006, there were 14 students but there were 5 out of 14 students received high school diploma, rest of others received occupational diploma. Alabama killed occupational diploma program after many of students with OD can't find jobs.

That is not what it says on the AIDB site. AIDB only offers a preschool and a kindergarten, not a full fledged K-12 program.

The website doesn't give you anything and it is not reliable source to get information. I learned from ASD teachers when I met them at camp so you can't depending on website to get information - a lot of information are hidden and you have to meet someone to get know.

 

[deafdyke]

That's not true - there are a lot of students with autism are struggling with college so online courses is best incentive for them, also there are a lot of internship to assisting about how deal with social issues. There are some places like church is great place to socialize - please don't criticize on religion.

Are you encouraging me to stay at Gallaudet until graduation? I wouldn't alive if I did and the suicide risk is a lot higher when I lived in dorm and I had on-call CRE with DPS frequently, also Residence Life agreed with me that I will better off to live in house and take online course instead of staying at dorm. I had no support at all at college campus, also I left deaf school in 2005 after I found that live in dorm worsen my depression.

There is one problem - many employers have no heart about Americans with disabilities, including autism but there are some employers are sympathy about autism and disabilities, end up to hire someone with autism. The experience is biggest factor for employment, not social skill.

Do you have a job? If not so can you explain us about why you don't have job?

I know about how college students who generally have Asperger's style autism may opt for online classes thinking that it's about getting straight As... I'm not suggesting that you return to Gally.....I'm merely explaining how it works for many students with significent social skill defienecies... I see deaf kids who do not have the best social skills, but who have dual master's degrees, but they don't have the social skills so they can't even get into an interview for a job...... The key to a job is very complex and very complicated.... heck it's hard for hearing people to get a career that pays well and offers good benefits.... The economy has been in the toilet for hearing people too..... The jobs available are either low wage not exactly competitive jobs or careers that require two Ph.Ds..... BTW, I am an oyster quality control specialist, run my own business, write (for pay) and am an editor and writer for a new dhh organization.

 

[deafdyke]

Most inner city schools in Birmingham City School satisfied Alabama accountability requirement - it means they are not failing and we have many black students enroll at university that graduated from inner city school. The school is not issue but it is depending on teachers, also there are many good teachers in inner city school but they have to deal with depressed, hungry kids that government won't help them enough, even they bought food to feed the poor students.

The school in Indian reservation don't have accountability law so it is complicated, also federal government is responsible to take care of problem.

I came from high school in Appalachian area and their education is good, not perfect.

No schools are perfect, period.

That means the Birmingham inner city schools are good......but they are probaly the exception. There are inner city Gary Indiana, the Bronx, and East St Louis schools that produce kids who go to MIT or other very good univeristies...it doesn't mean all of them are good.... Look at the academic acheivement levels corralated with poverty levels...the good schools tend to be suburban or private.

 

[deafdyke]

At ASD, the class of 2006, there were 14 students but there were 5 out of 14 students received high school diploma, rest of others received occupational diploma. Alabama killed occupational diploma program after many of students with OD can't find jobs.



The website doesn't give you anything and it is not reliable source to get information. I learned from ASD teachers when I met them at camp so you can't depending on website to get information - a lot of information are hidden and you have to meet someone to get know.

How many were ID or had other disabilties? It's not just about low expectations..... And a lot of mainstreamed kids can get a certificate of attendance or not meet requirements for a standard high school diploma.....
And if they have a completely seperate K-12 oral program, then why don't they advertise it on the site? Are you sure you're not just mixing up speech therapy or the fact that they sign and speak at the same time?

 

[Foxrac]

I know about how college students who generally have Asperger's style autism may opt for online classes thinking that it's about getting straight As... I'm not suggesting that you return to Gally.....I'm merely explaining how it works for many students with significent social skill defienecies... I see deaf kids who do not have the best social skills, but who have dual master's degrees, but they don't have the social skills so they can't even get into an interview for a job...... The key to a job is very complex and very complicated.... heck it's hard for hearing people to get a career that pays well and offers good benefits.... The economy has been in the toilet for hearing people too..... The jobs available are either low wage not exactly competitive jobs or careers that require two Ph.Ds..... BTW, I am an oyster quality control specialist, run my own business, write (for pay) and am an editor and writer for a new dhh organization.

Red - It only happen if they don't have internships. The internships are recommended for all students.

Blue - when hearing people with bachelor degree works at fast food or minimum wage jobs, so it is very likely for deaf people to be unemployed. If you are college graduate with major that is pointless to job market so you are in big trouble or if you don't have ambition so you are in trouble too.

I do have ambition in IT and I have IT certification, also many years with working on IT issues so I could find IT jobs without any issue, even college education is not required, but most challenging is deaf and Usher Syndrome to make difficult to get hired. I need to find way to treat my PTSD as well and my autism is mild or moderate.

Ok, I got it about your career and that's cool of you. I do love fishing. Do you live closer to shore?

 

[Foxrac]

How many were ID or had other disabilties? It's not just about low expectations..... And a lot of mainstreamed kids can get a certificate of attendance or not meet requirements for a standard high school diploma.....
And if they have a completely seperate K-12 oral program, then why don't they advertise it on the site? Are you sure you're not just mixing up speech therapy or the fact that they sign and speak at the same time?

There were no other disabilities in Class of 2006 but some of them have LD and few of them have medical issues like one of black man had severe GERD and he died from heart issue in 2010.

The occupational diploma is bad as certificate of attendance.

Alabama no longer offer occupational diploma and certificate of attendance so all students get standard diploma when they pass the class. If you fail so you can't graduate and have to take again.

Oral education is requested at IEP and most schools don't regularly include anything on websites. Websites are not reliable information to check out.

 

[90sWizKid]

I really wish I was surprised by this but I'm not. I have a B.A and M.A in special education and this information is taught along with IEP and Due Process laws in our classes

 

[deafdyke]

All schools is different, some do good in mainstream, some do good in Deaf school. It all depends on IEP, many mainstream schools don't have deaf program. Some Deaf schools are too far away from the family's home and mainstream with deaf program may be only choice for them to be closer to home.

It varies with every student's education program in every school and no school education is perfect.

Exactly!!!!!! I'm saying it's very indivdual.... I mean I do think that a REALLY good compromise for a lot of dhh kids is a dhh program, rather then straight inclusion. There are some good deaf schools, there are a lot of good quality dhh programs and so on.......There are many different pieces to the puzzle....heck there are horrible mainstream schools, as well as lower tracks in mainstream schools......You have to look at all the aspects.... But there ARE good quality deaf schools and good quality dhh programs....My point is, not all of them are bad. There ARE bad and lower quality ones...I readily admit that.....ALL education is in need of reform!

 

[deafdyke]

There were no other disabilities in Class of 2006 but some of them have LD and few of them have medical issues like one of black man had severe GERD and he died from heart issue in 2010.

The occupational diploma is bad as certificate of attendance.

Alabama no longer offer occupational diploma and certificate of attendance so all students get standard diploma when they pass the class. If you fail so you can't graduate and have to take again.

Oral education is requested at IEP and most schools don't regularly include anything on websites. Websites are not reliable information to check out.

That is horrible....Still how many kids were transfers in from the mainstream? I know my friends who teach say that a big part of the problem is that early childhood seems to be really good, but then the kids who fell behind in the mainstream show up......and some of them can never catch up completely. I know about the certificates of attendance and the occupational diploma......it sucks... but you'd see the same sort of thing at a hearing school with the dhh kids. Yes, there are some kids who do extraordinarly well.... but there are just as many who might just graduate with a COA..... And the thing is, there WERE kids who DID graduate with a diploma....That shows that there is potential, but for various and sundry reasons some kids didn't meet the criteria for a diploma.
And I think you're talking about oral/HOH services or auditory access style services... those services aren't oral education, the way the mainstream, CID, Clarke and other oral schools have it.

 

[deafdyke]

One of the things that I think would really really help is a formal K-3 program. Encourage dhh kids to start out at Deaf Schools and dhh programs right off the bat, and test into the mainstream somehow. That way you wouldn't have kids falling through the cracks and falling behind in the mainstream....and of course the K-3 program would be REALLY good.......Also push dhh programs at mainstream schools. Even kids who are very strongly academic can benefit from dhh specific support services as well as the social benefits.

 

[deafdyke]

Oh and another thought.....I REALLY think that instead of college right off the bat, Asperger's level autistic (as well as other students with significent social skill issues) students should attend an Asperger's syndrome program to bone up on their social skills.

 

[Foxrac]

That is horrible....Still how many kids were transfers in from the mainstream? I know my friends who teach say that a big part of the problem is that early childhood seems to be really good, but then the kids who fell behind in the mainstream show up......and some of them can never catch up completely. I know about the certificates of attendance and the occupational diploma......it sucks... but you'd see the same sort of thing at a hearing school with the dhh kids. Yes, there are some kids who do extraordinarly well.... but there are just as many who might just graduate with a COA..... And the thing is, there WERE kids who DID graduate with a diploma....That shows that there is potential, but for various and sundry reasons some kids didn't meet the criteria for a diploma.
And I think you're talking about oral/HOH services or auditory access style services... those services aren't oral education, the way the mainstream, CID, Clarke and other oral schools have it.

The high school diploma can be modified or IEP if you take classes to accommodate with lower IQ or unable to pass the normal classes like basic math instead of Algebra.

There are not many students transfer to deaf school nowadays and many deaf students have CI and doing well in mainstream school if they don't have other disabilities or learning complication. Any deaf students with other disabilities are likely to be end up in deaf school. I saw young people with CI and greeted them but I realized that they don't know how to sign language.

How many time I explained to you? I said ASD offered oral education in separated classes if requested at IEP meeting - that what I learned when I met ASD teachers at summer camp, that's enough, no debate.

 

[Foxrac]

One of the things that I think would really really help is a formal K-3 program. Encourage dhh kids to start out at Deaf Schools and dhh programs right off the bat, and test into the mainstream somehow. That way you wouldn't have kids falling through the cracks and falling behind in the mainstream....and of course the K-3 program would be REALLY good.......Also push dhh programs at mainstream schools. Even kids who are very strongly academic can benefit from dhh specific support services as well as the social benefits.

That's not going happen anyway.

Most deaf babies are from hearing parents and they don't know about deaf culture or deaf school.

Also, many deaf school have bad reputation so that why many parents don't want to send their children to residential school like my parents are two of them that refuse to send me until I got older.

 

[Foxrac]

Oh and another thought.....I REALLY think that instead of college right off the bat, Asperger's level autistic (as well as other students with significent social skill issues) students should attend an Asperger's syndrome program to bone up on their social skills.

Most college don't have special program for autism.

There aren't any programs for autism in our area.

Online classes are great accommodation and the education is more important than social skill, so the social skill can taken care after they completed the education and there are a lot of internships.

 

[deafdyke]

The high school diploma can be modified or IEP if you take classes to accommodate with lower IQ or unable to pass the normal classes like basic math instead of Algebra.

There are not many students transfer to deaf school nowadays and many deaf students have CI and doing well in mainstream school if they don't have other disabilities or learning complication. Any deaf students with other disabilities are likely to be end up in deaf school. I saw young people with CI and greeted them but I realized that they don't know how to sign language.

How many time I explained to you? I said ASD offered oral education in separated classes if requested at IEP meeting - that what I learned when I met ASD teachers at summer camp, that's enough, no debate.

Um that's b/c Deaf school is usually end of the line.... It's usually not first choice, b/c THEY DON"T TELL THE PARENTS ABOUT it. FYI, I have a friend who SENDS her daughter to ASD. She said that there's all sorts of deaf kids at ASD (not just multi handicapped) and the ONLY oral option is the oral preschool. You're mixing up an auditory access style type of oralism, where speech or voice on periods may be used to supplement Sign....... There's not a completely different track, where an oral exclusive approach is used (like at CID, Clarke etc) You're most likely mixed up or misunderstood.

 

[Bottesini]

Um that's b/c Deaf school is usually end of the line.... It's usually not first choice, b/c THEY DON"T TELL THE PARENTS ABOUT it. FYI, I have a friend who SENDS her daughter to ASD. She said that there's all sorts of deaf kids at ASD (not just multi handicapped) and the ONLY oral option is the oral preschool. You're mixing up an auditory access style type of oralism, where speech or voice on periods may be used to supplement Sign....... There's not a completely different track, where an oral exclusive approach is used (like at CID, Clarke etc) You're most likely mixed up or misunderstood.

Did you know it is a characteristic of psychopaths to interject "um" a lot into conversations?

It's one of the ways police analysts recognize them in the early stages of investigation.