EVIDENCE of being deaf with Hearing Aid device

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Cheri said:
Sorry, I don't agree with you. You think that those who are deaf would not be successful in the world or allow to interact with the world, Only those who have hearing? Deaf people can function and interact socially in the hearing world. The only thing deaf people rely in the Deaf Community is when they want to socializing with other deaf people like them, to make friends to know one another, to share the same background experience, having a conversation. We don't need to depends only on the amount and type of hearing they need to have to allowing to interact with the world.

STOP USING THE LABEL, "HEARING" WORLD BECAUSE IT IS JUST REALLY CALLED "WORLD". It's REALITY! Geez.

I am deaf who is already successful and will learn how to hear someday later. I know we can be very successful but I know our chances will be better if we could hear and speak. That is all I've been preaching all along.

I don't like the size of the friends pool I have to choose from in the deaf world because the world is practically unlimited out there. I have awesome hearing friends that are more of my type and I sometimes have more fun with them than I do with my deaf friends.

I can't interact with the hearing people the way I wish I could but I can't interact with most deaf people the way I wish, too, if you get my drift.
 
Fragmenter said:
STOP USING THE LABEL, "HEARING" WORLD BECAUSE IT IS JUST REALLY CALLED "WORLD". It's REALITY! Geez.

:confused: What's wrong with how I say what I mean? It's not like I'm insulting the hearing people, Geeze. Don't need to shout at me, Take a huge chill pill, Would you?
 
Fragmenter said:
STOP USING THE LABEL, "HEARING" WORLD BECAUSE IT IS JUST REALLY CALLED "WORLD". It's REALITY! Geez.


I thought you were an open mind, but lately your posts is starting to turn me off, I'm sorry :(
 
Cloggy said:
And THAT is child-abuse... withholding the possibility of hearing from a child just because it has never heared.

Why is some people here kept saying " it's child abuse " come on, let's get real here, just because some parents rather their child to remain deaf doesn't mean it's " child abuse "same applies to those parents who wants their deaf child to hear...

What happened to agreeing to disagree? :sigh:
 
gnulinuxman said:
Cloggy, no matter what you say, telling someone that not implanting deaf children is "child-abuse" is extremely rude. Since when is it child abuse to let a kid be who and what they are when it's not THAT important? Seriously, I can understand glasses, wheelchairs, fake legs, etc. because those I would view as more high-priority. But you don't need to be hearing to be a success in the world.

Why is it soo wrong of wanted a deaf child to hear?
 
^Angel^ said:
I thought you were an open mind, but lately your posts is starting to turn me off, I'm sorry :(

And I care? I'm not here to please you with cherries on top of my posts.

We are not in a hearing people's world. We are in the world and I'm tired of deaf people drawing the line between "deaf" world which does exist and the "hearing" world which doesn't exist.

The deaf people keeps drawing a line between the deaf world and the world. That is my point.
 
Cheri said:
:confused: What's wrong with how I say what I mean? It's not like I'm insulting the hearing people, Geeze. Don't need to shout at me, Take a huge chill pill, Would you?

There's no chill pill big enough for the crap I've seen all my life.
 
^Angel^ said:
Why is some people here kept saying " it's child abuse " come on, let's get real here, just because some parents rather their child to remain deaf doesn't mean it's " child abuse "same applies to those parents who wants their deaf child to hear...

What happened to agreeing to disagree? :sigh:
Hi Angel... A same voice.

The "child abuse" has (from my point of view) nothing to do with parents deciding for their children.
I've explained a bit to Cheri here.
read my last quote.

And regarding "What happened to agreeing to disagree?" that is based on both sides putting their points forward and both sides understanding the others point of view.

Otherwise it's just... "Du hast recht und ich meine ruhe"
(You are right and I have my peace.)
 
Fragment 's
Go out and see the world outside of the small world we are in.


Believe it or not! I was in hearing world for 11 years without having deafies around me or attending any Deaf events because I want to see for myself how people treats me. It s tough and very lonely because many people doesnt want to take their time to talk with me.. It s always limited and doesnt change a bit. No wonder they think I can hear with device but NOT!

So I went back Deaf community and shocked how audism people treats Deaf people with ASL that is how I stood up for Deaf people with ASL all the way. We did make the difference and have those hearing people in our Deaf community that they respect and use their hands to speak with us all the way. Thats the way of two streets.

I raised my hearing children alone and deal with my childrens hearing friends / parents.. Most hearing parents dont bother to call me after all I tried to communicate with them on the phone through relay service.. or Principal at the school that my children attended.. Guess what he did not communicate or let me know whats going on with my children.. I just found out in a conversation with my daughter about things that happened in their school, as far as the principal and teachers procedures. There was one occasion where another student was harassing my daughter in the classroom and she told him to back off numerous times...after unsuccessful attempts, she started getting louder, then the teacher sent her out of the class to the principal office...even after hearing the situation. Every single day, my daughter was sitting in principal s office while she wants to go home or call me. EVEN he knew it wasnt my daughter s fault and didnt do anything about it. Principal says NO and Never mind about me. Just to name one instance. That makes me angry for what they did to me and my children. I am so grateful my children had more time to share with me recently that I never knew about it. My children did not want me to stand up for them because it s not gonna to work after all the school faculty dont care about me as being a Deaf mother. SO I did not barrier them but they did. SCoffs!

Dont tell me that I dont know nothing about hearing world if you mind. So there! I am not afraid of anything to confront or fight for a very good reason. MIND YOU!

Sweetmind


YOU ignored my comments as usual and jumped all over me that says I am a real Deaf hermit into Deaf community.. Scoffs! No wonder you got so much influences to be negative about yourself by audism people who doesnt treat you equally. That makes sense for you to allow it happens and must change yourself for their sakes.. I dont think so. I am being me, myself, and my whole true identity of being deaf. PERIOD!

DEAF is no good and Hearing is good! SCOFFS! Deaf people are people. So be it! Leave us alone for who we are.

There's no chill pill big enough for the crap I've seen all my life.

Oh yes you need to get a chill pill for not being honest to yourself. And Blame blame on Deaf people who have tried to communicate with any kind of people out there with our orally speaking as well as we did the best we can. And you made an excuse to blame us Deaf people with HA and orally speaking. That is a very bigotry / Degradation attitude.

I find this is real odd strange coming from you so it s ASL extremsits 's attitude Thats how I got treated by people 's prejudice / discrimination , secon class citizens, and many mores that I have walked through all those years in a hearing world for a long long time. Dont tell me that I didnt try it.

I cannot hear everything that YOU refused to face the Deaf Reality and tells a lie to many people that Device is so miracle/cure to make Deaf people to hear everything. That is too much lies. SCoffs!

Thank you!

Sweetmind
 
We are not in a hearing people's world. We are in the world and I'm tired of deaf people drawing the line between "deaf" world which does exist and the "hearing" world which doesn't exist.

You got me so confused now.. Since I have said it all along from the start if you mind.. You took out of my mouth that says it in your own words. Scoffs!

CLOGGY want her daughter to be in Hearing world only.. Thats what I m getting a message from him for a long time.. He has no positive for what we Deaf people s abilities can do anything without hear. So there!

Those devices has nothing to do with our BRAINS, EYES, AND HANDS that we can learn, too. Orally speaking is the worst experience many deafies and I ever had because it s toooooooooo LIMITATION for us to force to speak and hear only from interfere our learning process that we could go farther. It s better than having to receive a little from the audism people . We cannot hear everything with those devices.. PERIOD! That is what it caused by teacher / hearing / and other who doesnt know nothing about ASL or SE or Deaf children s alternative 's importance because of oral rules only .. Scoffs!

THANK YOU! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
...............CLOGGY want her daughter to be in Hearing world only.. Thats what I m getting a message from him for a long time.. He has no positive for what we Deaf people s abilities can do anything without hear. So there! .............
AGAIN a wonderful example of not just your reading skills, but especially your "understanding of what you read"-skills.
(To spell it out.... you are wrong! To prevent you from starting to hiccop: She knows sign!
Sweetmind said:
.............Those devices has nothing to do with our BRAINS, EYES, AND HANDS that we can learn, too. ......
Nothing is a dangerous word..... Those devices can make you - brace yourself... sit down on the floor so you don't fall from the chair... HEAR. It's true. They can do something that you can't do without it....
Sweetmind said:
.............Orally speaking is the worst experience i ever had because it s toooooooooo LIMITIATION for us to force to speak and hear only. We cannot hear everything with those devices.. PERIOD!...

THANK YOU! ;)
Sweetmind
You are welcome.
 
And also, we have all kind of different communities that has Deaf Africian American, Deaf Native American, Deaf American, Deaf/Hearing Blind American, Asia American .. We are different from them so we stood up for our ourself for a very good reason.

So what s your problem?? It s okay for Hispanic people to have their language in our America but we cannot be part of one in a Diverse world. You are not making any sense. Thats our freedom choice to join their Deaf cultures in many Deaf communities in the whole world.

We are proud of being deaf and show the world that we can do anything except hear since we do not hear everything with those devices. SO BE IT!

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
And also, we have all kind of different communities that has Deaf Africian American, Deaf Native American, Deaf American, Deaf/Hearing Blind American, Asia American .. We are different from them so we stood up for our ourself for a very good reason.

So what s your problem?? It s okay for Hispanic people to have their language in our America but we cannot be part of one in a Diverse world. You are not making any sense. Thats our freedom choice to join their Deaf cultures in many Deaf communities in the whole world.

We are proud of being deaf and show the world that we can do anything except hear since we do not hear everything with those devices. SO BE IT!

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
They speak their own language AND the language of the world around them. They do not expect the "other world" to speak their language.

So you are right... Be proud to be deaf like they are proud of their culture. And do not expect other to speak your language because YOU are the minority.
Take an example from those cultures!!
 
STOP USING THE LABEL, "HEARING" WORLD BECAUSE IT IS JUST REALLY CALLED "WORLD". It's REALITY! Geez.

Tell Cloggy to stop saying this hearing world only.


I am deaf who is already successful and will learn how to hear someday later. I know we can be very successful but I know our chances will be better if we could hear and speak. That is all I've been preaching all along.

I can speak and dont feel I am a failure however they prevented me as a Deaf abilities person because I cant hear everything. So be it!

I don't like the size of the friends pool I have to choose from in the deaf world because the world is practically unlimited out there. I have awesome hearing friends that are more of my type and I sometimes have more fun with them than I do with my deaf friends.

I love to go out and have a good time with Deaf / Hearing people altogether if they both know ASL that would fit us into a diverse world.

I can't interact with the hearing people the way I wish I could but I can't interact with most deaf people the way I wish, too, if you get my drift.

Thats very understandable but why do you blame yourself that u did the best you could communicate with Hearing so what is your point?? There are a lot of barrier of communication toward us by audism people if you mind. yea you get my drift as well. I could talk with any Deaf people whenever I am at that doesnt mean that I m staying with one group. I am very liberal woman and walking through all kind of Deaf people anywhere in Deaf community. We all live in this diverse world that Audism people need to change their attitude first.


:grouphug: Also I like to add this book again that are into a Diverse world for Deaf and Hearing people to be together. It is already proven that it had been done it already before ORALISM took over. So there!

"Everyone Here spoke in Sign Language"
Hereditary Deafness on Martha ‘s Vineyard
Nora Ellen Groce
Foreword by John W. M . Whiting

In United States alone, 14.2 millions people have some hearing impairment that is severe enough to interfere with their ability to communicate: of these 2 million are considered deaf (National Center
for Health Statistics 1982).

A deaf person's greatest problem is not simply that he or she cannot hear but that the lack of hearing is socially isolating. The deaf person's knowledge and awareness of the larger society are limited because hearing people find it difficult or impossible to communicate with him or her. Even if the deaf person knows sign language, only a very small percentage of the hearing population can speak it and can communicate easily with deaf people. The difficultly with the ignorance and misinformation about deafness that is pervasive in most of the hearing world, combine to cause difficulties in all aspects of life for deaf individuals _in education, employment, community involvement, and civil rights.

On the Vineyard, however, the hearing people were bilingual in English and the Island sign language. This adaption had more than linguistic significance, for it eliminated the wall that separates most deaf people from the rest of society. How well can deaf people integrate themselves into the community if no communication barriers exist and if everyone is familiar and comfortable with deafness? The evidence from the Island indicates that they are extremely successful in this.

One of the strongest indications that the deaf were completely integrated into all aspects of society is that in all the interviews I conducted, deaf Islanders were never thought of or referred to as a group or as "the deaf" Everyone of the deaf people who is remembered today is thought of as a unique individual.

On the mainland profound deafness is regarded as a true handicap, but I suggest that a handicap pis defined by the community in which it appears. Although we can categorize the deaf Vineyards as disabled, they certainly were not considered to be handicapped.

As one older man on the Island remarked, "I didn't think about the deaf anymore than you'd think about anybody with a different voice."

Perhaps the best description of the status of deaf individuals on the Vineyard was given to me by an island woman in her eighties, when I asked about those who were handicapped by deafness when she was a girl. " Oh" she said emphatically, "those people weren't handicapped. They were deaf."

Page 53, 54, 57

Sign Language on the Island

Learning the Language

Most people remembered the deaf as being far more positive about their inability to hear. :I know that I asked him once, I never forgot it, because, well, because it was typical of him. I said, ‘Have you ever felt you missed anything important in life because you couldn't speak or hear?' And he said ‘No. I have never had to listen to anything unpleasant.'"

The Islanders learned sign language in childhood. When I asked informants how either hearing or deaf children learned to sign, there was general consensus that the growing child learned the language as naturally as he would learn English. Children growing up in households with deaf members " just picked up the language," many people told me. As the daughter of one deaf woman said "I never given much thought of that. It came naturally," One elderly man recalled that his hearing cousin, daughter of a deaf father and hearing mother, acquired the use of signs even earlier than speech. "She could talk deaf and dumb with her fingers earlier than she could speak. I've often heard that it started off with her when she was young... I know they used to say that she had talked with [her father] earlier than she could talk with her hearing mother."

Research has shown that deaf children exposed to sign language in infancy will begin to sign at least as early as hearing children begin to speak. Some research indicates that the ability to sign may in fact precede the ability to speak by several months.(2) The rate at which deaf children acquire a vocabulary, if they are signers , is virtually identical to the rate of hearing children, and by the age of five or so, both have acquired vocabularies of over 1,000 words. In contrast, a deaf child who is given oral instruction and is not exposed to sign language often has a functional vocabulary of only several dozen words by the age of five. The acquisition of sign language and English by hearing children of deaf parents has been studied, and it has been found that both languages are easily acquired simultaneously (Prinz and Prinz 1979, 1981).

Those who knew the language were expected to know it well, and pretending ignorance, even by children, was not tolerated. "Sarah, who was deaf and dumb, you know, used to babysit for our daughter, and Sarah would tell our daughter to do something. And May, our daughter would pretend that she didn't understand the signs. And would that make Sarah mad! Boy, she'd stamp her foot, and she'd yell.

Page 57 Difficulties in Communication

Hearing Islanders apparently had no difficulty in communicating with the deaf, although we cannot know with certainty. All communication was in sign language, for it seems that none of the deaf Vineyarders read lips. (3)

In the larger society off-island, hearing individuals often communicate with deaf person by written notes, but there is no indication that this was done on the island. It is no known whether the seventeenth- and eighteenth- century Vineyard deaf people were literate. In the nineteenth century all but one deaf Vineyarder could read and write English, probably learning it as a second language in school. (4) The few surviving letters by these deaf men and women show a good command of English.(5)

As one told me: "They never wrote anything that I could remember. Of course, I was young then, but I don't know. They always used to, you could figure out what they were going to say. You know you were so used to it." There is only one hint that any of the deaf Vineyards communicated in writing. One man remembered that his neighbor, a deaf woman, whose husband ran a milk and wood business that the summer people used, often kept a broken slate and a piece of chalk by her back door in case she had trouble communicating with an off-islander.

The continual use of sign language in the up-Island communities seems to have fostered a freee and easy exchange of ideas and concerns among all members of the community.

Another man said " If there were several people present and there was a deaf man or woman in the crowd, he'd take upon himself the discussion of anything, jokes or news or anything like that. They were part of it, they were never excluded."

Another remembered:

I learned it when I was a kid. Everybody in town knew it. Yeah these men and women, mostly men, would be at the post office every night. There'd be six or eight of ‘em, and they'd be no different than you or I. They'd mingle in with everybody_everybody knew the language. Everybody talked with ‘em_just like you'd do to a person who could speak.

When they assembled right before the mail in Chilmark, for example, at night, and there would be deaf mutes there, and there would be plenty of people who could talk and hear, and they were all part of the crowd. They had no trouble, no trouble at all.

NOW I did saying it for a long long time ago. So you disrespect me for no reason.. So there! Now you get many drifts. :dunno:

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind
 
Sweetmind said:
Tell Cloggy to stop saying this hearing world only.




I can speak and dont feel I am a failure however they prevented me as a Deaf abilities person because I cant hear everything. So be it!



I love to go out and have a good time with Deaf / Hearing people altogether if they both know ASL that would fit us into a diverse world.



Thats very understandable but why do you blame yourself that u did the best you could communicate with Hearing so what is your point?? There are a lot of barrier of communication toward us by audism people if you mind. yea you get my drift as well. I could talk with any Deaf people whenever I am at that doesnt mean that I m staying with one group. I am very liberal woman and walking through all kind of Deaf people anywhere in Deaf community. We all live in this diverse world that Audism people need to change their attitude first.


:grouphug: Also I like to add this book again that are into a diverse world for Deaf and Hearing people to be together. PROOF IT already before ORALISM took over. So there!

"Everyone Here spoke in Sign Language"
Hereditary Deafness on Martha ‘s Vineyard
Nora Ellen Groce
Foreword by John W. M . Whiting



Page 53, 54, 57

Sign Language on the Island

Learning the Language



Page 57 Difficulties in Communication



NOW I did saying it for a long long time ago. So you disrespect me for no reason.. So there!

Thank you! ;)
Sweetmind

Of course almost all babies uses gestures as sign before they learn to speak the first word..

SxyPorkie
 
Sweetmind said:
..........................
Also I like to add this book again that are into a Diverse world for Deaf and Hearing people to be together. It is already proven that it had been done it already before ORALISM took over. So there!

"Everyone Here spoke in Sign Language"
Hereditary Deafness on Martha ‘s Vineyard
Nora Ellen Groce
............
Beautiful society... somehow it didn't survive....

Not because of Oralism, but because non-deaf people started moving to the island.
In the old days the deaf were not a minority, so it was an island with 2 languages and that works fine. (Many countries in Europe have 2 official languages.)
Later, with more people coming to the island, the deaf became a minority....... like in the USA.... and then there is only 1 main language.... English.

So don't blame "oralism" or "audists". See it as the natural proces it is.
But then again... you would lose another conspiracy theory......

Wonderful book by the way. Enjoyed it.
 
Cloggy said:

Of course,, Nearly all deafies are very liberal with their lives,,, so is mine!!!

Sooner or later your daughter will start speak out for herself.. you may not be able to curb her wishes.....

SxyPorkie
 
SxyPorkie said:
Of course,, Nearly all deafies are very liberal with their lives,,, so is mine!!!

Sooner or later your daughter will start speak out for herself.. you may not be able to curb her wishes.....

SxyPorkie
Sooner... it allready started.

You really cannot grasp the idea that my daughter might actually like CI...
..... so sad

cicanhear.gif
 
Not because of Oralism, but because non-deaf people started moving to the island.

Laurent Clerc was the first deaf teacher in deaf school...thats when deaf people moved out of Massachusetts..because they wanted to go to the deaf school for their deaf education that has BI-BI language. Laurent Clerc realized he couldnt use signed english only because Deaf people have their own native sign language therefore he used BI-Bi language that cannot be removed from the start after oralism took over.

There were already plenty of non-deaf people living there at that time. So your statement isnt accurate.

In the old days the deaf were not a minority, so it was an island with 2 languages and that works fine. (Many countries in Europe have 2 official languages.)

There were equal number of Deaf and Hearing people living there back then neither deaf nor hearing was a minority there at that time.

Later, with more people coming to the island, the deaf became a minority....... like in the USA.... and then there is only 1 main language.... English.

This is not true! Oralists took over and eliminated ASL in the classrooms because they claimed it was horrible to use hands to speak. That is related to Bi-Bi language.

:ty:
Sweetmind
 
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