EVIDENCE of being deaf with Hearing Aid device

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^Angel^ said:
Pardon me? care to explain this a bit more of what you really mean.. :confused:

All I'm saying is that semantically, there is no difference in whether one calls one handicap or disabled. Really, they both imply the exact same concept, the inability to do something (whatever that is). The former is no longer considered "politically correct" and therefore not accepted usage. A better way to state this is "pick your poison" of which term you prefer to be labeled. Neither give you any advantages...

As for you other assertion about life isn't easy, that wasn't exactly what I was talking about. I was referring to the "carte blanche" statement "all the deaf cannot do is hear (normally - empathsis mine)". While on the face of it, that is a true statement as such. However, it is never as simple as that. There are many implications to the inability to hear that effect so many areas of life. So, all I was saying if it were so easy as just for the lack of hearing...get my drift?
 
By contrast, a student learning German stays in the hearing world. Germans do not experience the world differently from Americans solely because their language gives them a different perception. Their educational philosophies and practices are different; social and political history is very different, particularly the concepts of church and state. The government, though democratic and protective of human rights, defines those rights differently and assumes a different role. Moreover, Germans enjoy a culture and civilization that is every bit as complex and dependent on specialists to maintain as American culture. An American specialist who uses a specialized vocabulary in English and who speaks German can compare how the German specialist has clothed his thoughts in the German language.

Thus, the question of culture for a hearing student of ASL is whether the student learns a foreign culture or learns how deaf Americans cope in the American culture. I believe that an English-speaking student learning ASL learns how deaf Americans cope in the American cultural setting. Yes, the deaf cope in a different way than Navahos in Arizona, or Jews in New York City, but I would argue that all are different manifestations of the diverse American culture.

Differences in Literature (ASL vs. German) . During the folk migrations in the 4 th and 5 th centuries AD, Germanic tribes came into contact with Greek and Roman civilizations. The Visigoths were converted to Christianity, and their bishop Wulfila (311-382/3? AD) used the Greek alphabet to translate the Bible into his language. This is the earliest written form of a Germanic language extant today (Braune and Ebbinghaus 2-3). The warlike Germanic tribes had an oral tradition about their heroes and gods, clothed in formalized meter and alliterative rime. Forms of this literature were first captured in writing in the 8 th Century AD (Anderson and Williams 291). Since then, Germanic literary tradition captures major shifts in the languages; the assimilation of Classical, Christian and Germanic philosophies and values; and the development of society from family clans and tribes through agrarian feudal alliances, then through the development of cities and later the industrial, nuclear, and information ages. Along the way the student of German literature experiences, through the magic of written language, human values and conflicts in every conceivable time, setting, and manner. (4) Of course, beginning foreign language students do not have sufficient language skills to access the vast reservoir of knowledge contained in a second language. However, continued study provides access to every art and science produced by that culture in the past, as well as all its current manifestations.

In comparison, ASL originated as a standard language with the founding of Gallaudet's and Clerk's school in 1817 and grew during the subsequent fifty years when the deaf and teachers of the deaf were united in teaching a manual language, using shared methodologies and signs. During the period when manual language was in disfavor, deaf schools did not promote literary activity. Indeed, it was not until 1973 when Gilbert Eastman created a play called "Sign Me Alice" (Eastman 28-29) that a more formal literary genre was conceived and performed in ASL. Compared to centuries of poetic literary creation in the spoken/written languages, ASL has enjoyed only some 30 years as an approved standard language of the deaf, and the number of ASL signers is extremely small. World-class literature has occurred only rarely from the spoken/written languages, and it would be highly unusual for a literary genius to have emerged from ASL during its short existence, particularly given its relatively small population base.

However, humans are story tellers, and the deaf are no exception. At the heart of every story lies a conflict, and it would be hard to conceive of a natural situation that offers more possibility for conflict than when parents and children can not communicate fully. Deaf children must often choose between parents who want them to be part of their hearing world, and peers who have an awakened sense of pride in their silent world. No doubt a world-class literary figure will emerge from that conflict-ridden situation--even though the resulting creative works will have to be translated into a written language for the world to access them.

Conclusions. This article began with a rhetorical question and a preface, both literary devices that inform the reader of the writer's intent and also invite the reader to participate in the discussion. In this article, the capitalization of "Deaf" as a sign of ethnicity occurs only in quotes from sources that champion this viewpoint. I do not share this belief, and that is a primary reason why I do not believe that ASL is a foreign language. From a linguistic standpoint, there is no question that ASL is a complex, natural human language that is worthy of study. It is at least as difficult for non-native speakers to learn well as any of the spoken languages that we designate as foreign. If ASL is not like traditional foreign languages, should it meet foreign language requirements? I believe the answer to be a qualified "yes."

If the deaf had a silent country to match their silent world; if they lived in a distinct geographical location separate and apart from hearing humans; if this deaf country had it own form of government, law enforcement, sciences, architecture, mythology, religions, etc.; if the hearing had no deaf children, and if the deaf had no hearing children, then the question of whether or not ASL is a foreign language could be answered in simple black and white terms.

I do not believe that the study of ASL serves most English-speaking Americans as well as the study of a more traditional spoken and written foreign language. In the initial difficult years of acquiring a second language, study of ASL does not give the learner information about spoken and written languages that increases understanding of English. After acquiring the rudiments of the language and beginning the process of mastery, the differences are even more striking. A learner of Italian, for example, can travel to Italy, visit historic sites, participate in its great music tradition, study any field of human endeavor at an Italian university, or read about it in books, etc.. The learner of ASL can not participate in any of those kinds of activities.

The most limiting aspect of ASL is the finite nature of visual language. Because facial expression is essential for understanding, signs must be formed near the face, and each sign is further limited by how far the hand can reach, hand shape, position of the palm, and movements, all of which must be visually distinguishable. Though linguists have devised scripts describing those characteristics, the scripts have proven to be difficult to interpret, and they could not be used to describe the hundreds of thousands of specialized words for which there are no signs.

This limitation of ASL makes it impossible for it to comply fully with some of the goals in the national Standards for Foreign Language Learning, as noted below in bold. ASL fails to meet Communication Standard 1.2: "Students understand and interpret written and spoken language on a variety of topics" and Communication Standard 1.3: "Students present information, concepts, and ideas to an audience of listeners or readers on a variety of topics." ASL also fails to meet the Connections Standard 3.1: "Students reinforce and further their knowledge of other disciplines through the foreign language." Whether ASL fully meets the other Standards for Foreign Language Learning, particularly in the area of culture, is subject to interpretation.

Nevertheless, I believe that ASL should be offered through foreign language or ESL programs because the process of language acquisition is similar, whether the language is visual or spoken. Just as there are legitimate reasons for selecting a particular spoken language as a second language over another, there are compelling reasons to select ASL over a spoken language--such as an individual with a close deaf relative. Because children gain hand dexterity before they can control the vocal tract, ASL has allowed mankind to learn more about how children learn. The same can be said about primates who lack a sophisticated vocal tract that would allow them to communicate using a spoken language. Like the study of any second language, students are attracted to ASL for the intellectual stimulation, its aesthetic qualities, and the snob appeal of communicating with others who know the code in front of those who do not.

Because English-speaking learners of ASL do not have to learn to speak or write it, some foreign language teachers believe that students may elect to study ASL to meet foreign language requirements because they think it is easier than learning a second spoken/written language. These fears are somewhat born out by statistics in Utah. In 1994, the state legislature mandated that ASL would meet state institutional foreign language requirements and directed the public schools and universities to offer instruction in ASL. Comparing Utah's public school foreign language enrollments in 1994 to those in 1998 provides the following statistics (Patterson UFLE):

1994 1998 Percent
Total FL 81,622 76,031 93% (7% decrease)
ASL 847 2,691 318% (218% increase)
French 15,965 14,006 88% (12% decrease)
German 11,347 9,366 83% (17% decrease)
Spanish 51,143 46,821 92% (8% decrease)
Those statistics do not tell the entire story. ASL is offered in 20 high schools, French in 64 high schools, German in 60, Spanish in 89. In five of the high schools where ASL, French, and German are offered, ASL more than doubles the combined enrollment of French and German (Patterson FLESHS). Those students who selected ASL over French, German, or Spanish did not do so because of family origins; they did not do so because there are more opportunities to use ASL than French, German, or Spanish (there is a large population of Hispanic first generation Americans in Utah, and a huge influx of German and French tourists visiting Utah's scenic national parks).

No one has conducted a study in Utah as to why students, if given an opportunity to choose, select ASL over French or German. It is clear that studies should be done as to why students are selecting particular languages. We in the language profession should not let such fears divide us. Studies in ASL above all else remind us how important language is in defining who we are as humans. Taken as a whole, the American educational system does not place as high a value on second language acquisition as do other systems in the world. We language educators need to do a better job extolling the importance of second language acquisition. We need to make intelligent decisions about which languages best meet the circumstances of different people. This task requires people of good will to work together for the common good.

Cited Works

Anderson, M. & Williams, B. C. (1963). Old English handbook. Cambridge: Houghton Mifflin.

Berlitz, C. (1982). Native tongues. New York: Grosset & Dunlap.

Braune, W. & Ebbinghaus, E. A. (1961). Gotische grammatik mit lesestücken und wörterverzeichnis. Tübingen: Max Niemeyer.

Cokely, D. & Baker, C. (1980). Sign Language in the 20th Century: A Chronology. In C. Baker & R. Battison (Eds), Sign Language and the Deaf Community: Essays in Honor of William C. Stokoe. Silverspring, Md: National Association of the Deaf.

Dolnick, E. Deafness as Culture. The Atlantic Monthly vol. 272, no. 3 (1993): 37- 53.

Eastman, G. C. (1980). From Student to Professional: A Personal Chronicle of Sign Language. In C. Baker & R. Battison (Eds), Sign Language and the Deaf Community: Essays in Honor of William C. Stokoe. Silverspring, Md: National Association of the Deaf.

Mangold, M. (Ed.) (1974). Der duden in 10 bänden: Das standardwerk zur deutschen sprache. Band 6: Das aussprachewörterbuch (2nd ed.). Mannheim: Duden Verlag.

Oehler, H. (1966). Grundwortschatz deutsch: Essential German: Allemand fondamental. Stuttgart: Ernst Klett.

Padden, C. (1980). The deaf community and the culture of deaf people. In C. Baker & R. Battison (Eds.), Sign language and the deaf community: Essays in honor of William C. Stokoe. Silver Spring, MD: National Association of the Deaf.

Patterson, J. (1999). Foreign language enrollment statistics for high school (FLESH) . Salt Lake City: Unpublished report compiled for the Utah State Board of Education.

Patterson, J. (1999). Utah Foreign Language Enrollment 1980-99 (UFLE) . Salt Lake City: Unpublished report compiled for the Utah State Board of Education.

Shelly, S. & Schneck, J. (1998). The complete idiot's guide to learning sign language. New York: Alpha Books.

Sign Language. The New Columbia Encyclopedia. 1975 ed.

Stross, B. (1976). The origin and evolution of language. Dubuque, Iowa: Wm. C. Brown Company Publishers.

U. S. Department of Education and the National Endowment for the Humanities. National Standards in Foreign Language Education Project. (1996). Standards for Foreign Language Learning: Preparing for the 21st Century . Lawrence, KS: Allen Press, Inc..

Wilcox, S. & Wilcox, P. P. (1997). Learning to see: Teaching American Sign

Language as a second language (2nd Ed.). Washington, D. C.: Gallaudet

University Press.



Endnotes

1. The plains Indians in North America used signed language to communicate simple needs with someone from another tribe whose language they did not understand. Trappist monks under a vow of silence employed signs to communicate needs with each other ("sign language").

2. My six-month old grandchild explicitly indicated to me that she wanted to explore a particular spot in the room by twisting her body and pointing to that spot, regardless of where I carried her in the room. In a similar fashion, my father who had lost the power to use spoken language while nearing death successfully gestured that he wanted his head cooled and was thirsty.

3. For example, the noun for "airplane" in German is " Flug" is equivalent to "flight" and " zeug" comes from a verb meaning to produce. Germans conceive of an airplane as a flight producer, whereas the English word refers to the convex upper surface of the wing, i. e., its "plane," which when powered generates enough speed to create a vacuum allowing something heavier than air to rise into the air.

4. I have used German as an example because English-speaking Americans would categorize it as a "foreign language," and because as a teacher of German, I am well familiar with it. Any other language with a long literary tradition would also serve as a point of comparison.


READ this carefully, if you mind.. I m so sick thats why there is always ignorance and arrogance running through their blood. Of course,they are nowhere near as fully openminded as they claimed to be.

It s way too much overgeneralization of culturally egocentric hearing version. You were influeneced by audism. we all have a serious problem with ADA and our Deaf children that put them isolated or being separated from us Deaf people/Deaf community that seems it goes back to old days. You sit around and do nothing.. I cannot do it alone after all I m so sick of people s complaints about how they treat us deafies. So what can you do about it? I cannot do it alone and need to have more support to have our equal rights for all of us deafies. These Deaf children cannot even speak and they cant help it...They are smart. They shouldnt be left out and treated like failures due to no communication. That isnt fair! Also some Deaf children dont want to lipread because of the struggle no matter if they have devices...their choice...no more controlling! Deaf children have the right to use their hands and no one can stop them.

Deaf people can do anything except hear if you mind. Time for you to change your ATTITUDE if you mind.

Thank you!
Sweetmind
 
loml said:
SM;

What was that all about? :dunno:
I know... it's just filling up space!
OK.... I'll start reading it. No guarentee that I will finish.....
 
sr171soars said:
All I'm saying is that semantically, there is no difference in whether one calls one handicap or disabled. Really, they both imply the exact same concept, the inability to do something (whatever that is). The former is no longer considered "politically correct" and therefore not accepted usage. A better way to state this is "pick your poison" of which term you prefer to be labeled. Neither give you any advantages...


I suppose everyone is different dear, to me it does matter :)

So, all I was saying if it were so easy as just for the lack of hearing...get my drift?

Today problems is people just give up too easy thinking oh this deaf person can't do this or that because they simple can't hear, personally I'm sick of hearing it, they don't know what we CAN do or CAN'T do...

Every indivual is different and what each of us are capable of doing...
 
loml said:
SM: Would you please answer the question from my previous post.......
Sweetmind doesn't reply to posts...
Anything you write to Sweetmind can and very likely will be ignored. If you decide to write something anyway, it might be taken out of context and used against you! :Owned:
 
Cloggy said:
Sweetmind doesn't reply to posts...

[/SIZE] :Owned:


And she says we don't keep an open mind hmmm yet I find that quite interesting
 
^Angel^ said:
...
Today problems is people just give up too easy thinking oh this deaf person can't do this or that because they simple can't hear, personally I'm sick of hearing it, they don't know what we CAN do or CAN'T do...

Every indivual is different and what each of us are capable of doing...

Agreed on that...

Please note this, I'm an extreme overachiever who has successfully joined the hearing world and there have been very few things that I couldn't do. Now with my CI, the glass ceiling has been lifted even higher and my "deafness" is even less restricting than before with my HAs. So in essence, you are preaching to the choir... :whistle:
 
sr171soars said:
Agreed on that...

Please note this, I'm an extreme overachiever who has successfully joined the hearing world and there have been very few things that I couldn't do. Now with my CI, the glass ceiling has been lifted even higher and my "deafness" is even less restricting than before with my HAs. So in essence, you are preaching to the choir... :whistle:


LOL!!! I like that line
 
So whats wrong with BI BI languages that includes ASL and SIGNED ENGLISH that you cannot handle it. Scoffs! LOML/ Cloggy
 
Sweetmind said:
So whats wrong with BI BI languages that includes ASL and SIGNED ENGLISH that you cannot handle it. Scoffs! LOML/ Cloggy

And what's wrong with oral methods? :fingersx:
 
Cheri said:
Not trying to twist their arms, but let's be reasonable here, You cannot make a deaf child to hear like their parents, You have to accept what's in front of you and work way through it. Is it fair to pressure a deaf child to learn your language instead of their own lanaguage? A child is deaf, would never be a person that you want her/him to be. It's the matter of truth. ;)

The hearing parents are reasonable, too. They understand that a deaf child will never be able to hear as well as them.

And about pressuring a deaf child to learn English? If it's pressure for us, then it's the same pressure for a hearing child. Deafness doesn't mean you must belong to the deaf world. I have a co-worker who is deaf but doesn't know any signs because he grew up in the world. He's a functioning human being. He doesn't realize that the deaf community frowns upon oralism. He doesn't even know that he's an oral deaf person LOL. Get my point?

I'm trying to explain this concept to many deaf people. They just don't understand it.
 
^Angel^ said:
And she says we don't keep an open mind hmmm yet I find that quite interesting

exactly exactly excatly excatly you got that right.
 
Eyeth's
I'm not deaf but hoh ,anyway, I would love to learn sign language and communicate with some deafies.. unfortunately I don't have any deaf relatives or friends ... sign language is really beautiful and I would like to have been there in sweetmind's place and to have a talk with her using sign language
may sign language never come to an end
hearing people shouldn't forget that hearing world isn't the only one way of living


Thank you so much, Eyeth. I would love to have you to come over my place and will make your jaws getting tired because we will have a blast time and laugh each other so much. I m full of surprises as usual. ;)

We will ending up to stay up all night without having a sleep. LOL

Many thanks! ;)

Sweetmind

PS: Now you Angel can see why I ignored your many nonsense comments toward me. You are not openminded or listening how Deaf people feels about oral method only. Scoffs! Guess what CI is not the answer for every deaf children s needs that doesnt make them to hear everything. You are giving people into a very wrong impression that we can hear with Devices. Wow! what a liar!
 
SM: You seriously just do not get it!

Sheesh, you think this is just about ASL :roll: .... the entire education system and early intervention system needs revamped. Deaf children deserve equal access to education and information.

You are cut from the same cloth as the Deaf people in my area.... attempting to oppress deaf children for selfish resaons.....how shameful!

You ignore my questions... hmmmmm I was raised that is rude.....

I was hoping the years had allowed you to grow..... I should have know better.
 
loml said:
SM: You seriously just do not get it!

You are cut from the same cloth as the Deaf people in my area.... attempting to oppress deaf children for selfish resaons.....how shameful!

This needs to be repeated so I quoted it! :cheers:
 
I dont have to listen to you a hearing person who thinks you know it all. YOu listen to Deaf Leaders if you mind.

Thats how hearing people raised me and ignored my importance needs that will help me to have a good Deaf Education. YOU FAILED many deaf oralist children with HA/CI device all those years.
 
Sweetmind said:
I dont have to listen to you a hearing person who thinks you know it all. YOu listen to Deaf Leaders if you mind.

Thats how hearing people raised me and ignored my importance needs that will help me to have a good Deaf Education. YOU FAILED many deaf oralist children with HA/CI device all those years.


SM, there are no guarantees in life. ASL certainly does not gaurantee you a good Deaf Education. Not in your school day nor in todays!
 
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