Enough is Enough...

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sallylou said:
"Normal" is a setting on a washing machine. Really! Take a look. :P
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ha yeah that is a good question! *looking down in the washing machine and waiting*
 
rebeccalj said:
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I agree. Sometimes, when I read posts from hearie parents I *read* my Mum. Closed off to the reality that I am different and view the world in unique way. Not want me to be deaf. Not want me to sign. Sign, my native language and something that came so natural to me but taken away too young. Want me to speak like other *normal* kids. Think her approach right, right. Deaf approach wrong, wrong. She knows better than those who *LIVE* with this day in and day out. :roll:

My Mum never grieve for the fact that I will never hear her play violin. Mum grieve that I will never hear her play piano. Mum grieve that I come with extra work. Always have to be aware of dangers and surroundings even when no longer toddler.

I feel sorry for those who insist that there is nothing to grieve. If you carry a child to term, and I have, my wish was they would not be Deaf. Cross fingers they not be Deaf. I hope for healthy child. Even straight child that will get married and have family. Child that won't be ridiculed or taunted by society. Child that won't be looked down on.

When you adopt a child it is very, very different. People that struggle with infertility, or whatever the reason, are *SO* grateful to have child they are thankful to have child no matter what the challenge might be. There is nothing really to grieve if you know, going into parenthood, what the challenges are. Or, maybe the grieving is less. Hoping for perfectly healthy child but get one with challenge instead. But, I still think grieving is more for parents who go through pregnancy, and all the fantasy of what will my child be like, only to find out that things aren't quite so textbook like the Disney stories we all read.

Ryancher is a breath of fresh air for me. Wish she were my Mum when I growing up. :hug:
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While I agree wholeheartedly with your other points, this one is simply not true. Adoptive parents are not immune to the same unrealistic expectations of biological parents...in fact, quite a few of them go into it with so much denial, starting with the very fact that they cannot accept that the child came from somewhere else, was born to another woman and family. They pretend that that other family does not exist...until, of course, the adopted child has problems, then they are quick to blame the "original" family. I am not saying this is true for ALL adoptive parents, but it is for many. They want a "perfect" child just like any other parent, and though it is true that some seek to adopt disabled children, for many, that may be all they can get..they are either too old to adopt, or don't have the money - very expensive to adopt. And many MANY adoptive parents want that newborn that they could not have biologically, they will wait for years, spend a fortune with an adoption agency, or travel to other countries for that newborn, rather than adopt the many older or disabled children that need homes right in their own country.
 
jenniifer said:
While I agree wholeheartedly with your other points, this one is simply not true. Adoptive parents are not immune to the same unrealistic expectations of biological parents...in fact, quite a few of them go into it with so much denial, starting with the very fact that they cannot accept that the child came from somewhere else, was born to another woman and family. They pretend that that other family does not exist...until, of course, the adopted child has problems, then they are quick to blame the "original" family. I am not saying this is true for ALL adoptive parents, but it is for many. They want a "perfect" child just like any other parent, and though it is true that some seek to adopt disabled children, for many, that may be all they can get..they are either too old to adopt, or don't have the money - very expensive to adopt. And many MANY adoptive parents want that newborn that they could not have biologically, they will wait for years, spend a fortune with an adoption agency, or travel to other countries for that newborn, rather than adopt the many older or disabled children that need homes right in their own country.
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I understand what you say but I'm referring to the 9 months of expectation. I've known couples who have adopted and they don't always have 9 months of waiting for their child to be born. 9 months of fantasizing. In some cases, after waiting for years and years, it was only a few days. "We have a baby for you."

More often than not, for adoptive parents, the fanatasy of actually having baby lies in the waiting to see if it will ever happen for them.

The expectations and grieving, as you point out, is different and more to do with birth family.
 
Hoping for perfectly healthy child but get one with challenge instead. But, I still think grieving is more for parents who go through pregnancy, and all the fantasy of what will my child be like, only to find out that things aren't quite so textbook like the Disney stories we all read.
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What IS healthy anyway? I have never understood the labeling of a deaf or blind or CP (or mobilty/orthapeditc) kid as being "not healthy"
We're not in the hospital that often , and we don't get sick that often.
And yes, you're right......a lot of the grieving seems to be by parents who may have never known a kid with a disabilty, and don't know that our lives are just like any one else's life.
Either that or they want a "perfect baby"
am not saying this is true for ALL adoptive parents, but it is for many. They want a "perfect" child just like any other parent, and though it is true that some seek to adopt disabled children, for many, that may be all they can get..they are either too old to adopt, or don't have the money - very expensive to adopt. And many MANY adoptive parents want that newborn that they could not have biologically, they will wait for years, spend a fortune with an adoption agency, or travel to other countries for that newborn, rather than adopt the many older or disabled children that need homes right in their own country.
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Good point....it does seem there are parents who just want to adopt nothing but a "perfect" white newborn.
 
rebeccalj said:
That is *SO* not true and completely uncalled for. What I say is, "Child that won't be ridiculed or taunted by society. Child that won't be looked down on."

I see in my daily life, as adult, the stares, deal with idiots in society on daily basis. Why would I wish that on my child if possible not to?

Damn rights I was hoping my children not be Deaf than deal with what I had to as child and now adult. Not love them any less if they were Deaf but, given a choice, wish they hear so not have to go through what I did.
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So true, Rebecca. I am skeptical of any parent who says that they did not grieve or were not disappointed in finding that their child would not be like everyone else - it isn't as if it is wrong to feel that way, and it isn't focusing blame on the child - it is grief because you know how hard life might be for them. And of course parents don't want their children to have hard lives - what parent would be ok with that???
 
deafdyke said:
What IS healthy anyway? I have never understood the labeling of a deaf or blind or CP (or mobilty/orthapeditc) kid as being "not healthy"
We're not in the hospital that often , and we don't get sick that often.
And yes, you're right......a lot of the grieving seems to be by parents who may have never known a kid with a disabilty, and don't know that our lives are just like any one else's life.
Either that or they want a "perfect baby"
Good point....it does seem there are parents who just want to adopt nothing but a "perfect" white newborn.
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Reason being is that the newborn adoption is the closest thing to do-it-yourself, like the biological process..a brand new baby with no baggage. (Or so they think, children inherit more than just the physical)

Easier to bond with a newborn, easier to pretend that there is no other family out there, that they are yours exclusively. I have much empathy for those who can't have children of their own, but for many adoptive parents who insist on a newborn, it is more about their needs. Just for the record, I am not against adoption for the right reasons - I just feel very strongly that no child should be separated from it's natural family just because of money, and that is what too many adoptions are about.
 
jenniifer said:
Reason being is that the newborn adoption is the closest thing to do-it-yourself, like the biological process..a brand new baby with no baggage. (Or so they think, children inherit more than just the physical)

Easier to bond with a newborn, easier to pretend that there is no other family out there, that they are yours exclusively. I have much empathy for those who can't have children of their own, but for many adoptive parents who insist on a newborn, it is more about their needs. Just for the record, I am not against adoption for the right reasons - I just feel very strongly that no child should be separated from it's natural family just because of money, and that is what too many adoptions are about.
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Eerie, it's like you know me so well. All true, like most, if not all adoptive families, there's no way we are telling Li she was adopted. The whole family is sworn to secrecy, we've burned all of the photos taken in China, forged all of her identification papers. I'll explain that her Asian good looks were typical on Daddy's side -- all those east-side-of-town Jamestown settlers looked exactly like her and she can begin her Colonial Dames of America activities as soon as she's 14. I hope you'll all support us in keeping the whole sordid adoption thing quiet.

And, because we were sooooo old when we applied (30 something years olds can't possibly have bio children), we were pretty desperate and told them we weren't picky, we'd take whatever they had off the shelf. As long as it was newborn, because you know how biological children come with all that baggage (the idea of dealing with my father in law's nose, my dad's tendency to burn in the sun) -- we wanted a clean, fresh one and gave them all the specs and eBay whipped one up for us.

Stop making offensive and ignorant posts about how adoptive parents feel and what motivates them.
 
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GrendelQ said:
Eerie, it's like you know me so well. All true, like most, if not all adoptive families, there's no way we are telling Li she was adopted. The whole family is sworn to secrecy, we've burned all of the photos taken in China, forged all of her identification papers. I'll explain that her Asian good looks were typical on Daddy's side -- all those east-side-of-town Jamestown settlers looked exactly like her and she can begin her Colonial Dames of America activities as soon as she's 14. I hope you'll all support us in keeping the whole sordid adoption thing quiet.

And, because we were sooooo old when we applied (30 something years olds can't possibly have bio children), we were pretty desperate and told them we weren't picky, we'd take whatever they had off the shelf. As long as it was newborn, because you know how biological children come with all that baggage (the idea of dealing with my father in law's nose, my dad's tendency to burn in the sun) -- we wanted a clean, fresh one and gave them all the specs and eBay whipped one up for us.

Stop making offensive and ignorant posts about how all adoptive parents feel and what motivates them.
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She said MANY, not ALL.
 
And it pains me when biological parents will abort/kill their unborn babies because pre-natal testing tells them their child will not be born perfect. And you know there are people out there trying to control the color of their babies eyes, hair, skin, etc. Sheesh, if you want "perfect", get a doll made for you.
 
JennyB said:
My daughter has autism and has a severe hearing loss. I get it for sure and certainly does help my work.
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Agreed. As the parent of a deaf adult, I know how much that real life experience applied to text book learning is a benefit in the work I do. It makes that connection between theory and person so much easier.
 
rebeccalj said:
That is *SO* not true and completely uncalled for. What I say is, "Child that won't be ridiculed or taunted by society. Child that won't be looked down on."

I see in my daily life, as adult, the stares, deal with idiots in society on daily basis. Why would I wish that on my child if possible not to?

Damn rights I was hoping my children not be Deaf than deal with what I had to as child and now adult. Not love them any less if they were Deaf but, given a choice, wish they hear so not have to go through what I did.
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I understand what you are trying to say. The grief is not necessarily dependent upon deafness, but is based on a difference. It is a universal concept with birth parents whose child is found to have any kind of a functional difference. Those that want to can deny it until the cows come home, but it is a concept that has been supported time and time again across domains. Those who choose to deny that they experienced any such thing, even to a small degree, choose to live with it and allow it to influence their decisions regarding that child.
 
Just curious - How would the mother feel if she is a white woman that gave birth to a black child - but never had sex with any black men.....

That is a radical example of an expectation not being met -and it has happened to a friend of mine's mother.
 
Speedy Hawk said:
If I had child in future and he/she was born Deaf, I wouldn't be upset cos I don't see anything wrong with Deaf child.

I be surprised if hearing parents didn't grieve over their child hearing except for CODA parents.

My Mum and Dad did grieve, that was very easy to see because I picked it up from all sorts of little things like cannot hear them, cannot hear music, talk like them, much more work, etc, etc.

Mum became really overprotective because she thought I can't do this and that because I was Deaf. Thinking it too dangerous for me only because I can't hear like crossing roads, ride a bike (Dad persuaded her in end and finally able to when I was 7/8), go out long trips. I was not allowed to do things that hearing child did, I had to wait much longer, much older before I am finally able to do it myself.
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Yes. The grief that hearing parents feel over a deaf child is exactly the same as the grief that deaf parents feel over a hearing child. It is because it is human nature to expect, without question, that your child will be like you. Hearing status is rarely mentioned, because no one, except the deaf, realize the difference it can make in relationships. Having grown up with it, they fully understand. That is why you will hear deaf parents wonder aloud what they will do if their child is hearing. You never hear a hearing parent wonder aloud if the child about to be born will be deaf. But you do hear them say things like, "I hope he has his father's curly hair, and my blue eyes." We fully expect, even to the degree that much of it is subconcious, that our children will be like us. When a hearing parent received the diagnosis, that is proof that their child is different from them.

Often times, a parent doesn't even begin to process that guilt until the child is older, and it has become evident how much deafness is a part of their identity, and how much it impacts relationships where communication is an issue. They spend the earlier years engaged in frenetic activity, trying to prove to everyone (mostly to themselves:cool2:) what a wonderful and accepting parent they are, and how well they deal with this. "No big deal. My kid is deaf. I can handle this...watch me."

That is one of the fundamental reasons that I am opposed to infant implantaton. Parents have not had the time to pyshcological absorb what a diagnosis of deafness really means yet, and they are vunerable to anything that a doctor or an audi tells them will make it easier for their child.
 
posts from hell said:
Just curious - How would the mother feel if she is a white woman that gave birth to a black child - but never had sex with any black men.....

That is a radical example of an expectation not being met -and it has happened to a friend of mine's mother.
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It would be exactly the same.
 
posts from hell said:
Just curious - How would the mother feel if she is a white woman that gave birth to a black child - but never had sex with any black men.....

That is a radical example of an expectation not being met -and it has happened to a friend of mine's mother.
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There was news of a black African couple giving birth to a blue eyed, blonde haired white baby past this year. She doesn't appear to be the typical albino.

Black Couple Gives Birth to White Baby
 
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