Don't Ask, Don't Tell

Jiro said:
the time was very different. The reason was different. the social aspect was different. the reason was different.

beside - many of them had wives and children.
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Really? Sure you not are trying to keep uncomfortable facts at an armlength distance? To my knowledge, our DNA is exactly the same as it was then. However, I can see a lot of reasoning and causes for the us army to suppress bisexual behavior.

Gay people having wives and children don't make them less gay last time I checked.
 
Reba said:
Where are the Spartans today? What happened to their culture? :hmm:

The fact that many of the men who died in combat in our current war were fathers (and even grandfathers) negates your theory that "heterosexuals would chicken out because he has children to take care of."

I don't believe heterosexual soldiers are any more brave than homosexual soldiers, nor do I believe homosexual soldiers are any more brave than heterosexual soldiers. In the heat of battle, true individual character will be revealed.

What is your military experience?
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I think fathers are far more likely not to chicken out. They fight for their country and risk their life for their children.
 
flip said:
Really? Sure you not are trying to keep uncomfortable facts at an armlength distance?
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Yes I'm pretty sure. At least I didn't answer my stance in a vague way toward gay people like "as long as they don't touch me, we're cool" :)

flip said:
To my knowledge, our DNA is exactly the same as it was then. However, I can see a lot of reasoning and causes for the us army to suppress bisexual behavior.

Gay people having wives and children don't make them less gay last time I checked.
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DNA is same. Social aspect was different.
 
flip said:
Today, the spartans live in a municipality, named Sparta, in Greece. But talking about power and influence, the Spartan empire was defeated by gay warlords of the persian empire and gay soldiers from Athens. Later, one of the most powerful gay men in the history, Alexander the great, conquered the persian empire, and spread greek culture over large areas. Both the old testament and the new testament(written in greek) was largely influenced by thoughts made by greek gays. So there you have what part happened with the openly gay Spartan culture.
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If we were allowed to discuss religion here I could set you straight about the Bible.

As a culture of the city state of Sparta, they are long gone. The Sparta of today is not the Sparta of the ancient world.

The way you describe it, it would seem that there were no heterosexual men doing anything in the ancient world. It was a civilization full of armies of
:fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit:
:fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit:

My military experience is limited to playing with GI JOE toys
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That figures.
 
:fruit: :fruit: :fruit:
 
Reba said:
As a culture of the city state of Sparta, they are long gone. The Sparta of today is not the Sparta of the ancient world.
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Nope, but fortunately, gay and bisexual culture is on the rise nowdays, great isn't it?
Reba said:
The way you describe it, it would seem that there were no heterosexual men doing anything in the ancient world. It was a civilization full of armies of
:fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit:
:fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit: :fruit:
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Yeah, that's how it was. I recommend you to read history books. Guess straight people just was :hyper: around then.
 
flip said:
Nope, but fortunately, gay and bisexual culture is on the rise nowdays, great isn't it?
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Which means our civiliation will be on the decline, such as what happened to the Greek city states and Alexander's empire.

Yeah, that's how it was. I recommend you to read history books. Guess straight people just was :hyper: around then.
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:roll:
 
Um...

Greece, Sparta, and the Macedonian Empire were not ruled by homosexuals. Homosexual sex was RITUALIZED between a superior and an underling. It doesn't make the citizens or soldiers gay; they honestly believed that such sexual acts would bring stronger bonds between soldiers. You see this same rationale among the Pacific Islander warriors. They are not homosexual; it's a ritualized belief.

Even then, they had a strong family system that allowed the empires to flourish; got nothing to do with open acceptance of homosexuality. It's like prison rape; the prisoners are not gay, but they still do it anyway to show dominance.
 
As much as I love debating with others about the origins of "the subject", it is unfortunate it cannot be debated here in a separate section with no report button.

A separate section that voluntary access is optional and nothing is moderated meaning if you don't like what you see, don't post.
 
souggy said:
Um...

Greece, Sparta, and the Macedonian Empire were not ruled by homosexuals. Homosexual sex was RITUALIZED between a superior and an underling. It doesn't make the citizens or soldiers gay; they honestly believed that such sexual acts would bring stronger bonds between soldiers. You see this same rationale among the Pacific Islander warriors. They are not homosexual; it's a ritualized belief.

Even then, they had a strong family system that allowed the empires to flourish; got nothing to do with open acceptance of homosexuality. It's like prison rape; the prisoners are not gay, but they still do it anyway to show dominance.
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Ok, something is going to be wrong when simplyfing the gay scene back then, as you point out. I agree that some of the homosexual acts then reminds of rape and I feel uncomfortable by the thought of it.

But in defense of my viewpoint, homosexuality is a modern term, and the definition of a family then is something else than it's in the western societies now

It's very likely that Alexander the great was a bisexual, probably with a taste for men over women. Just imagine Rumsfield making love with a handsome soldier, that would be the all normal back then.

The only gays that perhaps got less acceptance from the society then, was adults who favored a passive role in man-man sex, and the degraded status of those was due their attraction to the passive role, rather than their taste of gender.

People was not defined by their sexual orientation back then, but what role they had, passive or active.

Interestingly, saudi arabia also have this don't tell, don't know, policy in everyday life, as women aren't allowed to go outside alone, so single men have to make love with each other until they are married and own a woman.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
As much as I love debating with others about the origins of "the subject", it is unfortunate it cannot be debated here in a separate section with no report button.

A separate section that voluntary access is optional and nothing is moderated meaning if you don't like what you see, don't post.
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Do you mean religion/bible when you write "The subject"? It hit me that while I have enaged in heated discussions on muslim websites, discussing Islam and everything with no censorship, but lot of interesting viewpoints, talking religion is banned on this very american website. Is US changing or is it just alldeaf?
 
flip said:
Do you mean religion/bible when you write "The subject"? It hit me that while I have enaged in heated discussions on muslim websites, discussing Islam and everything with no censorship, but lot of interesting viewpoints, talking religion is banned on this very american website. Is US changing or is it just alldeaf?
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It is this site, it has been proven several times that some members cannot seem to agree to disagree about religion.

It's like several hens without their heads squawking about their "right" religion and so on.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
It is this site, it has been proven several times that some members cannot seem to agree to disagree about religion.

It's like several hens without their heads squawking about their "right" religion and so on.
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Ok, I see. Too bad. Now we are on the edge of discussing religion here, so will not comment that behavior further, but agree that it should be allowed in a form on alldeaf.com. Enlightenment and sharing perspectives are healthy, IMHO.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
It is this site, it has been proven several times that some members cannot seem to agree to disagree about religion.

It's like several hens without their heads squawking about their "right" religion and so on.
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Some members cant agree to disagree about anything.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
It is this site, it has been proven several times that some members cannot seem to agree to disagree about religion.

It's like several hens without their heads squawking about their "right" religion and so on.
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Of course, religion has been difficult to agree to disagree.

It would be easier if there's Christian group section to discuss about Christian related thing, they could be break in parts, such as conservative, moderate and liberal Christians.
 
CJB said:
:laugh2: True, but religion is the only one where it's not allowed to be discussed.
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Yup, it had been since 2 years ago after we made bad fist fight in religion section and it is pretty sad.
 
CJB said:
:laugh2: True, but religion is the only one where it's not allowed to be discussed.
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However, there are also areas outside religion where that behavior is just as bad and dispensed with equal fervor.
 
Tousi said:
However, there are also areas outside religion where that behavior is just as bad and dispensed with equal fervor.
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Totally agree. I think either religion should be allowed or the other topics (like politics) should also be banned.
 
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