Does Society Treat the Blind any different and the Deaf?

In some large cities, having a car is pretty useless due to traffic. They can use bus, subway, train, and cab. But I would think it sucks if they live in my kind of town. Always have to depend on others to get you to where you want.
 
I am also deafblind.

Yes, the blind are very much treated like they were helpless. When I was growing up their was a girl who was partially sighted who had a CCTV which she dragged about on wheels. Her mum was also blind. Her dad did practically EVERYTHING for her. So not only did she not work, but he didn't either. Before I lost my own sight I just took it for granted that this was how blind people were. I know better now.

I've also noticed a differance on how the blind are treated and how those with limited vision are treated. When I could see better I managed to get about almost anywhere without people bothering me much. Now for practical perposes I am totally blind in sunlight. People have started treating me differantly, including my dad.

I'm new to total blindness so I am getting lost when I never used to as someone with low vision. Hopefully I will adapt better in future. Despite this, I feel sometimes I'm already getting too much help. Another thing that is starting to really annoy me is when people take advantage of the fact that I need some physical conection to go all touchy feely on me. Like instead of putting my hand on the back of the chair I get these hands round my waste gradually trying to menovere me into it. Also this person when I was trying to get accross the park put his hand round my shoulder. That sort of thing freaks me out. I didn't have to deal with that when I was just low vision.
 
Aleser said:
Or as a more recent example, a deaf and newly blind woman was told by her neuro-opthamologist that she is refusing to sign the forms that declare her legally blind (even though she is) that would get her orientation amd mobility training, because she wants to make sure there's absolutely nothing that can be done before she gets a cane.

Apparently, it'd be a waste of time and money to be able to walk out of your own house without tripping over a step if you end up recovering some of that vision...
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That's bad. She shouldn't have to wait. She should get the rehabilitation now. I'm lucky that I knew some blind skills before. I've suffered from photophobia since the summer. I've only just had someone to see me and they say that it will take another 2 months before anyone can teach me extra blind skills. When they eventually turn up I will insist on doing it all under my blindfold whatever the lighting condition. I'm hoping they will agree. I've read about it done that way in the NFB rehabilitation centres and it seems a good idea to do it that way. In fact I think it may have been useful if it had been done when I first started loosing my sight 18 years ago. I remember once suggesting it to a rehabilitation officer when I first learnt how to use a long cane but he wouldn't agree.
 
Because of this, the amounts of legally blind children who are not exposed to basic things like using a white cane to travel safely or learning to read braille is incredibly high. These children are taught to cling on to the 10, 8, or even 4% of vision they have left, using various "low vision aids" such as high power magnification, to make them more "normal."
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Yes that's true. One of my best friends is legally blind. He even went to Perkins School for the Blind, and yet he just got a lot of "low vision" skills training, rather then Braille training etc. The irony is that people who are braille literate are more likely to be employed, then those who aren't!
 
jillio said:
I think I may have posted this before, but I was walking across campus with one of my students who happens to be blind not long ago. He uses a service dog, and on our way to where we were going, there were several people who spoke to the dog, but didn't bother to speak to the student. They would pass and say "Hi, Freddie." to the dog, and no "Hi" for the student. I was WTF? There is a person on the other end of that leash, you morons!
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Was the student hearing? I wonder if the other students knew that.


This is a very good thread Doug5
 
dreama said:
I am also deafblind.

Yes, the blind are very much treated like they were helpless. When I was growing up their was a girl who was partially sighted who had a CCTV which she dragged about on wheels. Her mum was also blind. Her dad did practically EVERYTHING for her. So not only did she not work, but he didn't either. Before I lost my own sight I just took it for granted that this was how blind people were. I know better now.

I've also noticed a differance on how the blind are treated and how those with limited vision are treated. When I could see better I managed to get about almost anywhere without people bothering me much. Now for practical perposes I am totally blind in sunlight. People have started treating me differantly, including my dad.

I'm new to total blindness so I am getting lost when I never used to as someone with low vision. Hopefully I will adapt better in future. Despite this, I feel sometimes I'm already getting too much help. Another thing that is starting to really annoy me is when people take advantage of the fact that I need some physical conection to go all touchy feely on me. Like instead of putting my hand on the back of the chair I get these hands round my waste gradually trying to menovere me into it. Also this person when I was trying to get accross the park put his hand round my shoulder. That sort of thing freaks me out. I didn't have to deal with that when I was just low vision.
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Interesting. Would you prefer them to tapped your shoulder and take your hand instead? and how do you communicating with people in public? How do you deal with not being awareness of what is going on around you? I hope you do not mind me asking these questions. I'm willing to learn. :)
 
dreama said:
I've also noticed a differance on how the blind are treated and how those with limited vision are treated.
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Medical professionals don't help at all, either. Although I am well into the definition of legal blindness, and then some, ((I'm down to a sloppy counting fingers at three feet, more accurate at 2 feet, which converts to something give-or-take like 20/2700 or 20/3000, I believe.) I apparently have 'low vision'

People are so constantly afraid of what blindness in the sense of 'no useful vision' means that we'll look towards any term or thought- sight impaired, low vision, visually challenged, to avoid the real truth that someone with 'low vision' is usually ALSO legally blind.

I wish that doctors wouldn't have such a hard time accepting that it's OK to be blind and that I don't want to be cuddled with terms that toe around the matter.
 
I would guess that blind people are treated better than deaf people since blindness is more obvious than deafness.

If a person is walking towards the front door with a cane, people are more likely to see that and quickly open the door for this person.

Either way, I think the need for help varies on the individual.

I've seen some handicapped people snap back because they don't like being treated like they are handicapped. But when they aren't helped, they snap back saying that they are handicapped and need to be helped.

It's like seeing a person in a wheelchair and a person standing next to him. I could walk up to both of them, but I ask the guy standing up if he wants to play basketball. I see the guy in the wheelchair and assume that he can't play. So, I don't ask him. However, the guy in the wheelchair snaps back at me saying... "Excuse me!? Aren't you going to ask me? Just because I'm in a wheelchair doesn't mean I can't play! Jeez!"

However, suppose I do decide to be respectful. So, I ask both of them if they want to play basketball. Yet, the guy in the wheelchair snaps back at me saying... "Excuse me!? Look at me! I'm in a wheelchair. How the hell do you expect me to play!?"

There's no satisfying anyone. :(
 
VamPyroX said:
I would guess that blind people are treated better than deaf people since blindness is more obvious than deafness.

If a person is walking towards the front door with a cane, people are more likely to see that and quickly open the door for this person.

Either way, I think the need for help varies on the individual.

I've seen some handicapped people snap back because they don't like being treated like they are handicapped. But when they aren't helped, they snap back saying that they are handicapped and need to be helped.

It's like seeing a person in a wheelchair and a person standing next to him. I could walk up to both of them, but I ask the guy standing up if he wants to play basketball. I see the guy in the wheelchair and assume that he can't play. So, I don't ask him. However, the guy in the wheelchair snaps back at me saying... "Excuse me!? Aren't you going to ask me? Just because I'm in a wheelchair doesn't mean I can't play! Jeez!"

However, suppose I do decide to be respectful. So, I ask both of them if they want to play basketball. Yet, the guy in the wheelchair snaps back at me saying... "Excuse me!? Look at me! I'm in a wheelchair. How the hell do you expect me to play!?"

There's no satisfying anyone. :(
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I guess best way to do that is.. after asking the standing person if they want to play and then say to person in wheelchair " I don't know if you are able to play or not but you're welcome to play if you want."

What do you think?
 
I would guess that blind people are treated better than deaf people since blindness is more obvious than deafness.

Hardly. Many legally blind people do not do things we think of as 'identifiers' of blindness, like using a cane.

If a person is walking towards the front door with a cane, people are more likely to see that and quickly open the door for this person.


Unless the blind person also happens to be mobility impaired and there is no easily-accessible door, that's just rude. This one happens to me far too often, and folks, I've got to promise you right here and now that my arms work more or less fine. I can pull the handle all by myself like a big girl.


I've seen some handicapped people snap back because they don't like being treated like they are handicapped. But when they aren't helped, they snap back saying that they are handicapped and need to be helped.

First, the word handicapped sucks. I'm disabled, you're disabled, just a different disability. Second, you forget how trying being disabled can be- I frequently yell, curse at, or otherwise express my anger at the misfortunate soul who is the last person attempting to 'help' me in my day. Why? Because I've just dealt with 30 jerks just like him, and I'm at my limit, and I'm not going to apologize for his behavior. If there was some law about how to treat blind people (I'm sure there is, it's just unwritten) I would seriously hope that the concept of ignorantia juris non excusat would still apply, cos then I would jail them to all ends for such a poor reason.

That said, beyond blatant things like "did you see that" or "did you hear that" I DON'T assume that people know how my disability limits me. You may have met a few disabled jerks, but do refrain from lumping us- and by requirement yourself- into the big old group of angry bastards.

It's like seeing a person in a wheelchair and a person standing next to him. I could walk up to both of them, but I ask the guy standing up if he wants to play basketball. I see the guy in the wheelchair and assume that he can't play. So, I don't ask him. However, the guy in the wheelchair snaps back at me saying... "Excuse me!? Aren't you going to ask me? Just because I'm in a wheelchair doesn't mean I can't play! Jeez!"



Better yet, throw a ball at his head. If he reaches up and grabs it, just ask him if he's up for a game. If he doesn't, profusely apologize and run.
 
Angel said:
Interesting. Would you prefer them to tapped your shoulder and take your hand instead? and how do you communicating with people in public? How do you deal with not being awareness of what is going on around you? I hope you do not mind me asking these questions. I'm willing to learn. :)
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No, I don't mind you asking questions. They can touch my hand, touch my eldbow, touch any part of my arm but the rest of my body should be out of limits.

I communicate with the general public via block capital letters on the palm of my hand. I used to use a communication card but when people started trying to spell out words, barely touching the braille, I was having to ask them to repeat themselves a lot anyway. I felt if I was going to need things repeating I'd prefere block capital letters.

I also teach people how to use the deafblind manual.

While the information you get if you cannot hear or see at all is limited their are devises to help you get about. I use a long cane, a guide dog, and also a tactaid (which turns sound into vibrations). I also have a braille compass and a machine that vibrates when it hits obsticles. I am thinking of getting a GPS which would be very useful too.
 
dreama said:
No, I don't mind you asking questions. They can touch my hand, touch my eldbow, touch any part of my arm but the rest of my body should be out of limits.

I communicate with the general public via block capital letters on the palm of my hand. I used to use a communication card but when people started trying to spell out words, barely touching the braille, I was having to ask them to repeat themselves a lot anyway. I felt if I was going to need things repeating I'd prefere block capital letters.

I also teach people how to use the deafblind manual.

While the information you get if you cannot hear or see at all is limited their are devises to help you get about. I use a long cane, a guide dog, and also a tactaid (which turns sound into vibrations). I also have a braille compass and a machine that vibrates when it hits obsticles. I am thinking of getting a GPS which would be very useful too.
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I could see how a GPS would be a great tool for the blind. They are coming out with some great inventions as of late.
 
Secretblend said:
I guess best way to do that is.. after asking the standing person if they want to play and then say to person in wheelchair " I don't know if you are able to play or not but you're welcome to play if you want."

What do you think?
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That's a good idea. Unfortunately, I've tried that line as well. It's not how nice you are, it's how the handicapped person is.

What it takes is patience and understanding regardless of how another person responds.

If a hearing person knew I was deaf and offered to order pizza on the phone for me since i'm deaf, I would kindly tell him that I am able to use the phone... but thank him for asking me. If this person asked me to order pizza, but I couldn't... I would kindly tell him that I'm deaf and would appreciate if he could order on the phone instead. Either way, I didn't take it wrong. It wasn't obvious that he was trying to be mean. Either method was not mean or harsh, just a normal thing that anyone would do in either situation. The important thing was the way I responded.

While I may be a minority (part of a deaf population), I know not to jump the gun and get to harsh with hearing people when they make mistakes involving my deafness.
 
Angel said:
Interesting. Would you prefer them to tapped your shoulder and take your hand instead? and how do you communicating with people in public? How do you deal with not being awareness of what is going on around you? I hope you do not mind me asking these questions. I'm willing to learn. :)
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The traditional method of acting as a sighted guide (when a blind person wants it, don't assume they do) is by offering them your elbow, which they will hold onto with their hand and walk a half-step behind you. If you're guiding someone who needs more support (someone elderly, for example) they might hook their arm into yours. If you're guiding a child, holding their hand is usually acceptable. To get my attention, acceptable methods would be tapping my hand, speaking very close to my ear (if I'm wearing my HA, I'll hear you. If I'm not, I'll feel your breath.), or stomping on the floor. When I'm with friends, things like throwing paper is usually okay and taken as good fun, but I wouldn't suggest doing it to a stranger.

In regards to communication, print on palm, as dreama mentioned, is a very good option. In that case, I'll hand you a printed card explaining that I'm deafblind and how to communicate with me, with a chart of each letter of the alphabet and what direction should be used to spell it (such as a straight line down on the left side, then the right side, and then across in the middle for "H", not some variant like straight down, across, straight down)

Then there's the deafblind manual alphabet, which is an adapted manual alphabet meant to be less confusing in tactile form. I hand this card to anyone who I might be communicating with more extensively, but I don't have my pacmate or a terp.

In very quick situations, I have a ring full of communication cards, with letters, numbers, and words printed on them. To use this, the person speaking to me simply places my finger on the letter or word.

My most important tool for communication is a pacmate. A pacmate is a pocket-PC for blind and deafblind people- some models, like mine, have braille displays which make everything 100% accessible to deafblind people. If you own one, you can purchase additional software, called facetoface. This software allows me to give the sighted/hearing person I wish to communicate a small hp ipaq with a collapsable keyboard and instantly have a tty-style conversation with them, without a phone line. This allows me to have long conversations without spending huge amounts of time spelling out words, and I don't have to deal with people who are sloppy in spelling out letters.

Of course, when I'm with deaf people, I can use ASL.

In regards to 'awareness of my surroundings'.. it depends on your perspective, I suppose. One thing I constantly have to remind people is that DeafBlindness is neither deafness or blindness- it is a combined syndrome which creates a very different disability- which is why even mildly hard of hearing blind people or deaf people with slightly low vision can be considered deafblind- because it creates a situation where we cannot compensate for our disability using the other sense.

Getting back to my point.. I interact with my environment in a fashion that may be different than deaf or blind or even sighted hearing people, but I do interact with the environment in a way that is intense and rich and missing nothing -in my eyes-. I 'hear' and 'see' cars driving with the vibrations of my miniguide. I 'see' sunlight on my skin. I 'hear' words on my fingertips, all over my hands, and sometimes around my body. I 'see' objects in my way through my cane. I 'see' books through braille bumps. I 'hear' and 'see' the train coming from the wind on my skin. I 'hear' a baby cry from the shakes and scrunched-up face. I can 'see' that my food is cooked from the way it steams, the way it feels when moved through a spoon. I 'see' the photographs I take using motion and smell and light. I 'see' and 'hear' the TV shows I so love using braille.

So- I may not be 'aware of what's going on around me' in the same way you are, I am very much aware of what's going around me all the same.
 
Aleser said:
The traditional method of acting as a sighted guide (when a blind person wants it, don't assume they do) is by offering them your elbow, which they will hold onto with their hand and walk a half-step behind you. If you're guiding someone who needs more support (someone elderly, for example) they might hook their arm into yours. If you're guiding a child, holding their hand is usually acceptable. To get my attention, acceptable methods would be tapping my hand, speaking very close to my ear (if I'm wearing my HA, I'll hear you. If I'm not, I'll feel your breath.), or stomping on the floor. When I'm with friends, things like throwing paper is usually okay and taken as good fun, but I wouldn't suggest doing it to a stranger.

In regards to communication, print on palm, as dreama mentioned, is a very good option. In that case, I'll hand you a printed card explaining that I'm deafblind and how to communicate with me, with a chart of each letter of the alphabet and what direction should be used to spell it (such as a straight line down on the left side, then the right side, and then across in the middle for "H", not some variant like straight down, across, straight down)

Then there's the deafblind manual alphabet, which is an adapted manual alphabet meant to be less confusing in tactile form. I hand this card to anyone who I might be communicating with more extensively, but I don't have my pacmate or a terp.

In very quick situations, I have a ring full of communication cards, with letters, numbers, and words printed on them. To use this, the person speaking to me simply places my finger on the letter or word.

My most important tool for communication is a pacmate. A pacmate is a pocket-PC for blind and deafblind people- some models, like mine, have braille displays which make everything 100% accessible to deafblind people. If you own one, you can purchase additional software, called facetoface. This software allows me to give the sighted/hearing person I wish to communicate a small hp ipaq with a collapsable keyboard and instantly have a tty-style conversation with them, without a phone line. This allows me to have long conversations without spending huge amounts of time spelling out words, and I don't have to deal with people who are sloppy in spelling out letters.

Of course, when I'm with deaf people, I can use ASL.

In regards to 'awareness of my surroundings'.. it depends on your perspective, I suppose. One thing I constantly have to remind people is that DeafBlindness is neither deafness or blindness- it is a combined syndrome which creates a very different disability- which is why even mildly hard of hearing blind people or deaf people with slightly low vision can be considered deafblind- because it creates a situation where we cannot compensate for our disability using the other sense.

Getting back to my point.. I interact with my environment in a fashion that may be different than deaf or blind or even sighted hearing people, but I do interact with the environment in a way that is intense and rich and missing nothing -in my eyes-. I 'hear' and 'see' cars driving with the vibrations of my miniguide. I 'see' sunlight on my skin. I 'hear' words on my fingertips, all over my hands, and sometimes around my body. I 'see' objects in my way through my cane. I 'see' books through braille bumps. I 'hear' and 'see' the train coming from the wind on my skin. I 'hear' a baby cry from the shakes and scrunched-up face. I can 'see' that my food is cooked from the way it steams, the way it feels when moved through a spoon. I 'see' the photographs I take using motion and smell and light. I 'see' and 'hear' the TV shows I so love using braille.

So- I may not be 'aware of what's going on around me' in the same way you are, I am very much aware of what's going around me all the same.
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Great post, wonderful explanation of day to day living. Thanks for that.
 
Raykat said:
Great post, wonderful explanation of day to day living. Thanks for that.
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Heh! it's not all day to day. I would like to take a moment to thank G-d that my day to day living does NOT involve crying babies.
 
I appreciate the how-to posts, as well. I'm like Vampy; I try to accept offered help in the spirit it's given . . . to help.

When I offer what I think is courtesy to anyone -- ie: opening a door for someone, picking up something dropped, taking a cart back to the store from the parking lot -- and that person crabs at me, I just shrug and walk away. Life's too short for putting up with bad manners from anyone no matter how challenged he or she feels.

A funny story. When I met my girlfriend after 3 1/2 years of e-mail and deaf relay phone conversations, I took her to supper and pulled out a chair for her. She immediately assumed I was pulling out the chair for myself and went to another one. So as we left the restaurant, I whispered "Will you let me open the door for you?" She nodded and paused, and we got past that.

But as we got to my car, I went to open the passenger door for her, and she signed, "Want me drive?"

Ha ha ha ha, some ladies make it awfully hard to be a gentleman. We've been going together almost two years, and she still can't get used to Montana cowboy customs. But I haven't given up.

On the other side of the coin, she wants to help me order in restaurants and to deal with store clerks, so I let her. I don't feel dependent or demeaned. I'm just allowing someone kind to practice her brand of being polite.
 
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