Do you support abortion as

[jillio]

What if the father of the baby wants you to keep it until birth and raise it himself?

Would you then re-consider having the abortion or not?

( I am just curious to know what other's opinion is on this....)

There have been a couple of court cases dealing with just that issue. Wish I could reference them off hand, but I can't. Just remember reading about it.

 

[Cheri]

I'm moving it here as giving birth to a disabled baby couldn't possibly harm you so I presume you are refering to cases where the woman's life is in danger which is extremely rare. If your life WAS in danger and your baby couldn't be moved via a C section then of course I wouldn't call you a murderer. As self preservation would be natural in the cercumstances although I've read about pregnant women who have gone without treatment for cancer as not to harm their fetus although I preciate that would be an act of great sacrifice. I wouldn't consider you a murderer any more then I would if you'd killed someone who was trying to end your life.

As for other types of abortions. I wouldn't consider you a murder then either as you wouldn't be ending your own babies life. A doctor would be doing it. So it would be differant then having to do it all by yourself.

I also believe one should Blame the sin not the sinner. A lot of women who commit abortion's are presurized or missguided in some way. They don't so much make a choice. Rather they are pushed into that direction. How am I to critize someone's rash deeds when I'm not exactly flawless myself. These woman need our compassion as they are going to remember their poor dead babies for the rest of their lives.

However, it's differant from condoning such an act and making it legal. I will NEVER EVER condon killing whatever name it is done in.

Good post.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Good post.

Welcome Back, Cheri

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'm moving it here as giving birth to a disabled baby couldn't possibly harm you so I presume you are refering to cases where the woman's life is in danger which is extremely rare.

No matter either it's rare or not but I beleive that abortion should be legal. Its about women's choice of life.

If your life WAS in danger and your baby couldn't be moved via a C section then of course I wouldn't call you a murderer.

For life-threatening - C-Section is not always safer.

As self preservation would be natural in the cercumstances although I've read about pregnant women who have gone without treatment for cancer as not to harm their fetus although I preciate that would be an act of great sacrifice. I wouldn't consider you a murderer any more then I would if you'd killed someone who was trying to end your life.

It's not always...

I read that one woman died of bladder cancer few weeks after CS birth because she is pro-lifer and choose to save fetus's life before her. The doctor urged her to remove the fetus before she can get chemo therapy to save her life but she ignored doctor and think that she would beat cancer without chemo therapy to have fetus full term. Unfortunlately she died few weeks after CS birth and left her husband to take care of 2 small children. I really feel bad for her 2 small children who need mother's side.

I rather to follow what the doctor say because it's about my life and my family's sake.

It's good news if the doctor say that they CAN save my life, if not then I choose my life for my family's sake over fetus.

It's not very easy for every mothers.

As for other types of abortions. I wouldn't consider you a murder then either as you wouldn't be ending your own babies life. A doctor would be doing it. So it would be differant then having to do it all by yourself.

I also believe one should Blame the sin not the sinner. A lot of women who commit abortion's are presurized or missguided in some way. They don't so much make a choice. Rather they are pushed into that direction. How am I to critize someone's rash deeds when I'm not exactly flawless myself. These woman need our compassion as they are going to remember their poor dead babies for the rest of their lives.

However, it's differant from condoning such an act and making it legal. I will NEVER EVER condon killing whatever name it is done in.

Exactly, that's why I beleive abortion should be legal because the doctors are expert and know how to save your risk life if you want your fetus to stay alive. If it's illegal... too bad like what you said above.

 

[dreama]

But the fetus doesn't have a spirit.

There is no evidence to support that and lots of evidence to support that a fetus DOES have a spirit. A fetus has feelings (sources vary on when that starts. SPUC says 10 weeks. Human development from conception to birth wikipedia says 26 weeks Fetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) so therefore there is every chance that it has a spirit too. Before anyone says but abortions only take place up until 12 weeks that only happens in some countries. In england disabled babies are aborted until birth so that is well after 26. Well after a pro abortion concienses has agreed that the baby feels pain.

You can't tell a woman what to do with her body

1. Yes I can and have been doing so several times. Freedom of speech is a constitutional human right. So any attempt to prevent pro lifers from expressing their views is unethnical.

2. As I've already said before, A fetus is NOT part of a woman's body. It is entirely seperate.

3. Have you any idea exactly how childish this phrase is. It's the kind of thing a five year old would come up with yet the pro abortion people come up with it all the time. I think they are trying to bully us. Well it won't work with me.

what has disability got to do with abortion anyway

Well if you had bothered to read the link that I provided you with you wouldn't have had to ask this silly question in the first place. Here it is again:
DISABLED PERSON S PERSPECTIVE ON EUGENIC ABORTION

 

[jillio]

There is no evidence to support that and lots of evidence to support that a fetus DOES have a spirit. A fetus has feelings (sources vary on when that starts. SPUC says 10 weeks. Human development from conception to birth wikipedia says 26 weeks Fetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) so therefore there is every chance that it has a spirit too. Before anyone says but abortions only take place up until 12 weeks that only happens in some countries. In england disabled babies are aborted until birth so that is well after 26. Well after a pro abortion concienses has agreed that the baby feels pain.

The concept of a soul or a spirit is not something that can be measured or determined. It is nothing more than a belief accepted on faith. Faith alone determines that you don't have to prove the concept, you just believe it "because". Therefore, you cannot prove that a soul or a spirit exists at any point, much less in a fetus. There is a much greater chance that it doesn't exist in a fetus.

You are again, incorrect in your interpretation of the law. I posted a link that shows the laws of the U.K. in this thread a few pages back. That link clearly shows that what you are telling people about the laws in England regarding abortion is false.

1. Yes I can and have been doing so several times. Freedom of speech is a constitutional human right. So any attempt to prevent pro lifers from expressing their views is unethnical.

And, under Roe V WAde, the freedom to make a decision regarding pregnancy is a woman's right. Any attempt to interfere with that right, while demanding the same rights for self, is hypocritical and facist.

2. As I've already said before, A fetus is NOT part of a woman's body. It is entirely seperate.

If it were entirely separate, it would not be physically attached to her via the umbilical cord and dependent upon her for the condition necessary for growth.3.
Have you any idea exactly how childish this phrase is. It's the kind of thing a five year old would come up with yet the pro life people come up with it all the time. Even when specifically asked to stick to a given subject. IE the rights of a disabled child not to be discriminated against which is what my thread is supposed to about until a bunch of pro abotionists hijacked it so they could spew out the same old pro abortion propaganda.

You actually opened the door for the topic by creating the thread. And, your original post was about gender selection...something that abortion is not performed for. This thread was created in an attempt, by an anti-choicer, to bring an element of emotion into a topic, and to divert by claiming that things are taking place that are obviously and provably false.

Well if you had bothered to read the link that I provided you with you wouldn't have had to ask this silly question in the first place.
DISABLED PERSON S PERSPECTIVE ON EUGENIC ABORTION

The only silliness here is claiming that a fetus is independent of the the mother.

Regarding your statement that you can tell women what to do with theoir bodies:

This is the most arrogant and judgemental statement you have made thus far. You do not have the right to tell anyone how they decide to live their life. It is not your decision to make. Your rights do not extend past your own nose. In no way do you have the right to force your beliefs on another, and the presumptuosness in your statement totally invalidates any argument you may come up with for your anti-abortion stance. That statement is just another example of the ignorance of the anti-choice crowd. How dare you! You can't even refrain from telling outright lies to support your position. How dare you claim the right to tell anyone what decision they MUST make in ther personal life.

Further, as you live in the U.K., the U.S. constituional right to freedom of speech doesn't even apply to you. Unless you are a citizen of the United States, you cannot claim protection under the U.S. constitution.

 

[Byrdie714]

There is no evidence to support that and lots of evidence to support that a fetus DOES have a spirit. A fetus has feelings (sources vary on when that starts. SPUC says 10 weeks. Human development from conception to birth wikipedia says 26 weeks Fetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) so therefore there is every chance that it has a spirit too. Before anyone says but abortions only take place up until 12 weeks that only happens in some countries. In england disabled babies are aborted until birth so that is well after 26. Well after a pro abortion concienses has agreed that the baby feels pain.



1. Yes I can and have been doing so several times. Freedom of speech is a constitutional human right. So any attempt to prevent pro lifers from expressing their views is unethnical.

2. As I've already said before, A fetus is NOT part of a woman's body. It is entirely seperate.

3. Have you any idea exactly how childish this phrase is. It's the kind of thing a five year old would come up with yet the pro abortion people come up with it all the time. I think they are trying to bully us. Well it won't work with me.



Well if you had bothered to read the link that I provided you with you wouldn't have had to ask this silly question in the first place. Here it is again:
DISABLED PERSON S PERSPECTIVE ON EUGENIC ABORTION

It doesn't have a spirit/soul and secondly--it's not separate from the mother, it's a temporary parasite onto the mother.

 

[Maria]

Maria, I respect your view but I agree with Pacman.

I would NEVER give my life up for a fetus because my family NEED me because my family come first.

Oh, well -- that's you. As for me, I would give up my life for my unborn child. That will show how much courage I have and I give my love for this unborn child.

 

[Foxrac]

Maria, I respect your view but I agree with Pacman.

I would NEVER give my life up for a fetus because my family NEED me because my family come first.

Oh yup, if all kind of abortion is banned then future spouse and I would not want have child until lawmaker loosen on abortion restriction law, such as life is in threaten or health issue when related with pregnant should be legally abortion based on woman's choice to save life, if some women don't want it and let them die.

I was just gave a example about spouse in near future.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Oh, well -- that's you. As for me, I would give up my life for my unborn child. That will show how much courage I have and I give my love for this unborn child.

What you did is commit sucide and what about your children? Did you know that they need mother?

 

[Cheri]

What you did is commit sucide and what about your children? Did you know that they need mother?

No, it doesn't mean she committed suicide. it means she gave up a life to save one another. That's just shows that she puts her own child's life first before herself.

It's the same as going in a fire to save your own children is that committing suicide? No, it's going in there to save a life of someone else.

 

[jillio]

It doesn't have a spirit/soul and secondly--it's not separate from the mother, it's a temporary parasite onto the mother.

Exactly. The concept of spirit/soul cannot be measured, and the emryo/fetus cannot survive outside the mother's body until the point of viability.

 

[jillio]

Oh, well -- that's you. As for me, I would give up my life for my unborn child. That will show how much courage I have and I give my love for this unborn child.

And what if you also have young children that have already been born and need a mother's love and care? What are they to do when you commit suicide by refusing medical care? Do you find it acceptable to sacrifice them?

If you choose to sacrifice the quality of life for children already breathing and walking this earth, who indeed are capable of experiencing pain and loss (unlike an embryo), then that is your choice. You have a legal right to make that choice. And other women have a legal right to make a different choice. That is what this thread is all about. The legality of a woman to choose.

If you don't want medical care forced on you to save your life, then you cannot force your choice on anyone else in the reverse. Youforce me to carry a pregnancy to term in the situation in which my life is endangered, and you risk the right to make the choice to take your own life by refusing medical care.

 

[jillio]

No, it doesn't mean she committed suicide. it means she gave up a life to save one another. That's just shows that she puts her own child's life first before herself.

It's the same as going in a fire to save your own children is that committing suicide? No, it's going in there to save a life of someone else.

Fallicious argument. You are comparing children that are already alive and independent from the mother's body. That is an entirely different concept than a cluster of cells that cannot survive on it's own.

 

[Cheri]

Fallicious argument. You are comparing children that are already alive and independent from the mother's body. That is an entirely different concept than a cluster of cells that cannot survive on it's own.

a baby in a womb is a human being, it's the same as a living child.

 

[jillio]

a baby in a womb is a human being, it's the same as a living child.

That is your opinion, and you are free to accept that opinion for yourself, even though it is totally contradicitory to medical science and the belief of the majority. However, because you cannot substantiate that belief with any hard evidence, you are not in a position to place that belief on anyone else's shoulders. You have the freedom to choose, and others have the same freedom no matter how much you wish to deny it to them.

Just curious. Please explain to us all exactly what makes an embryo that cannot survive without the total support of a female's body the same as a living, breathing, thinking, feeling child who can. Is a 6 year old child the same as an adult?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, it doesn't mean she committed suicide. it means she gave up a life to save one another. That's just shows that she puts her own child's life first before herself.

It's the same as going in a fire to save your own children is that committing suicide? No, it's going in there to save a life of someone else.

To me, it's commit suicide if anyone ignored doctor's warning for want to save their life for want to give their life up for save a fetus which is not same thing as save human being from fire.

Fetus is not a child/human being yet but human development until fetus is out of mother's womb as a human being -newborn, baby or child.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

a baby in a womb is a human being, it's the same as a living child.

No, fetus in a womb is a human development, not human being until 9 months then get out of womb as a human being. A living child is a human being.

 

[Cheri]

No, fetus in a womb is a human development, not human being until 9 months then get out of womb as a human being. A living child is a human being.

That's what you believe, and not to me , A human zygote, blastocyst, embryo, or fetus is a human being. Just as when a living child grows into an adult. fetus is totally dependent on a woman's body to survive, we feed our living children to survive.

 

[jillio]

That's what you believe, and not to me , A human zygote, blastocyst, embryo, or fetus is a human being. Just as when a living child grows into an adult. fetus is totally dependent on a woman's body to survive, we feed our living children to survive.

Living children are able to consume food on their own, and are not dependent upon the mother's body to survive. You can't give a bottle to a fetus. It must be fed throught he umbilical cord, which keeps it attached to the mother's body and dependent upon the mother not just for nutrition, but for oxygen and blood supply, as well.

You can believe anything you want to. The problem is, you can't substantiate it with evidence. You can believe that the sky is green if you want to, but until you can offer evidence to support it, it is no more than your belief.

The fact of the matter is, abortion is legal as set forth by Roe v Wade. Your beliefs don't change that.