Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[jillio]

Wow, lets get back on topics pleasee...ok marriage and becoming hearing have a connection? Lol dont think so...its a doomed path, hearing parents needs to realise that forced preference marriage is the worst thing you can do to your children, while let alone forcing speech over sign (or using sign to teach spoken ways as a cheat around '[word] concepts' is already alot of damage, why add it?!!

oh i said marry me lol (in case some of you missed it)

Well, when one chooses a hearing spouse as a way, even unconsciously, to be accepted into hearing culture, I see it as related. Or when a parent encourages a deaf adult child to marry a hearing person to reduce the chances of having deaf children or to reduce the impact of deafness, I could see how it is related. Just another way to accomplish assimilation.

 

[Berry]

One of the problems with assimilation is the reason for separation in the first place.

Somehow the U.S. has become an individualist society that hates any form of individuality.

Schools prepare you for one model of success. You make passing grades, join the football team, or at least become a jock, become a "leader", graduate from college either on a sports scholarship or because daddy is rich --

Then you join a company and move up the corporate ladder.

In school we are firmly taught that money is the reason for everything. The reason for not dropping out of high school is because you will earn more money than those who do. The reason for going on to college is because you will earn more money than those who don't.

A worse reason for getting an education I cannot imagine.

You are not prepared for, or encouraged to own your own business, big or small, or even become a professional unless it is to become a doctor or become a lawyer and go into politics.

There are a few specialized schools but you have to be pretty driven to get into those, such as artist, singing, or dance.

So basically the only individuals the majority of hearing society respects are those who follow the pattern or become insanely rich some other way.

The effect this has on those who accept the values of hearing culture (My mother would have said white culture) is that not all of them can be leaders, rise in the corporate ladder, or become insanely rich on their own merit. Therefore they devote themselves -- Not to self improvement -- But to disallowing others to join the race.

The reason they refuse to allow Deaf people to compete isn't because they think Deaf are unable to compete -- It is because they are afraid you might be able to win.

 

[Berry]

Forced assimilation:

In the U.S. success in school is equated with success as a human being. Success in school is equated with how well the country is succeeding as a nation.

And if for some reason you do not believe this -- And you are a parent -- Then you are at fault for your child's lack of success and ultimately for the success of the country as a whole. You! Who have not forced your child to do sufficient homework. You! Who have allowed your child to miss too many days of school.

In order to produce better assimilated children our society has made laws against parents who, for any reason, do not whole heartedly agree with the indoctrination program.

But they will tell you it is for your own good, the good of your children, and the good of the nation.

The sad part is there is NO conspiracy. They are acting on common agreement of what they believe is right for the child and the nation. They have no idea in the world they are doing it.

They mean well.

 

[dogmom]

this is similar to white privilege in that those who have it tend not to know it

and also related-

 

[dogmom]

assimilation and separation are two parts of the same - that being fear/ego.

lose the fear and assimilation is neither necessary nor desirable-

 

[Berry]

Wise lady.

 

[dogmom]

Berry, if me <?>
-try not to make assumptions -

if not me, same anyway - I am also grateful for all you have shared-

 

[Berry]

You. Definitely!

You are welcome.

When I first learned ASL thank you and you are welcome were signed the same.

 

[dogmom]

in lovingkindness, Berry...

 

[dogmom]

same? this is helpful to know
I appreciate-

 

[deafskeptic]

You. Definitely!

You are welcome.

When I first learned ASL thank you and you are welcome were signed the same.

Really? I hadn't known that. It's interesting how signs change over time.

 

[Berry]

same? this is helpful to know
I appreciate-

They don't seem to do it the same way here now. I'm told "you are welcome" is signed using the "You can come close: You can enter: You are hired" sign.

One of the challenges to avoid becoming hearing is to avoid so much hearing influence on ASL.

For crying out loud the same sign used to be used for "try, attempt, give an effort, go for it, give a push" and now I'm told it is initialized "T" for try, "E" for effort, "A" for attempt, etc.

Do we really need to differentiate between "try" and "attempt"?

 

[Berry]

Really? I hadn't known that. It's interesting how signs change over time.

Oh, they do. Some are understandable.

When I was a kid the science of building toilets was not what it is today. The tank was about four foot above your head. You would pull a chain to release the water down into the bowl.

The sign for toilet was the initial "T" pulling on the chain.

Later, when people forgot about the chain, the sign for toilet changed to "T" shaken at about shoulder height.

A very understandable change.

Not nearly the same as initializing "E" for effort, "T" for try, and "A" for attempt.

 

[deafskeptic]

Yeah.. That one is interesting too. I also notice a few signs don't change despite vast changes in society. Take the ASL sign for girl. It refers to bonnets that girl wore in the 19 century and it has not changed despite the fact bonnets have not been worn since the early 1900s.

 

[Grummer]

Really? I hadn't known that. It's interesting how signs change over time.

it goes to show sign language is a living language, even English use changes over time, would hazard a guess that most languages do, some die off due to empire crash etc, other oppressed into the underworld (witchcraft in the middle ages perhaps for some variations of latin of hebrew ?) and so on

 

[deafskeptic]

it goes to show sign language is a living language, even English use changes over time, would hazard a guess that most languages do, some die off due to empire crash etc, other oppressed into the underworld (witchcraft in the middle ages perhaps for some variations of latin of hebrew ?) and so on

Yeah. I believe Latin died out because the Roman Empire fell.

 

[shushugah]

Yeah.. That one is interesting too. I also notice a few signs don't change despite vast changes in society. Take the ASL sign for girl. It refers to bonnets that girl wore in the 19 century and it has not changed despite the fact bonnets have not been worn since the early 1900s.

similarly the sign for Dutch, is making a pointed shape with both hands on your head, also a bonnet reference, something dutch haven't worn for past 200 years.

 

[shushugah]

it goes to show sign language is a living language, even English use changes over time, would hazard a guess that most languages do, some die off due to empire crash etc, other oppressed into the underworld (witchcraft in the middle ages perhaps for some variations of latin of hebrew ?) and so on

There really isn't a Latinized version of hebrew, but rather many names were converted. For example one of the Disciples Paul comes from "Shaul", Jesus from "Jehoshuah" and so forth,

the Prophets books Kings 1 and 2, are very short in hebrew, however in greek, they took up two books.

 

[Beach girl]

Yeah. I believe Latin died out because the Roman Empire fell.

Yes and no. There is a manuscript dating back to the time of the Roman expansion throughout Europe that complains of the "poor Latin" spoken in Gaul. That "poor Latin" is now French. Same with Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian. All those languages were once just "poor Latin."

English has thousands of words with Latin roots.

Even pure Latin is still studied as an academic discipline.

So I wouldn't say Latin has died out so much as been transformed, and has mutated into several different regional variations of what was once the mother tongue of the Roman Empire.

 

[KristinaB]

Right - Latin is not as strong as it once was. My father was a Latin professor. Now, if I am right, the primary place that Latin is used is in the medical realms. I know it's used in more places than that, but Dad used to teach Latin both in college and in high school, but then it went by the wayside. Luckily, he was also a German and English professor, so he had those to fall back on.